Being aware of potential and being able to counter-act the potential is different fact. Su30MKI of 2000s is almost similar to today's MKI in active deployment, not the case with Rafale, Eurofighter Typhoon, Gripen, F16, F15, F18s etc.
MMRCA 2.0 - Updates and Discussions
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That time russians were desperate to get orders from.india, so they have agreed for each and every terms and conditions. Now the bird is with us, they are doing what every other OEM do,but irony is that russians are incapable to produce any meaningful subsytems now. I heard that they even denied to integrate multiple sensors developed by DRDO with MKI.
Kamove is a must addition, IA needs a compact but powerful light copter,ALH will not come close to ka226.
Yeas,AK should haven avoided. Our nature is to use anew platform for many decades,we should have gone for best of best rifle as on today. My favourite is FN Scar,deadly accurate & light weight, user-friendly & an incredible stoppage once in 700-800 round of fire.
Manpad, most foolish decision by us by choosing russian system.tyebfrench mistrel is the best system available today.
You are a pretty interesting fella. Fail to see what the IAF is actually doing, but at the same time creating your own fictional wishlist and then telling others to live in reality.
A lot of people, especially here, do not understand what the IAF needs the jets to do, and what sort of capability is required to do those tasks. Not to mention, zero clue about which jets can perform what tasks. Basically, I"m saying many people here do not know what a bike, car, truck, auto and bull dozer do.
Maybe some day you will figure this out:
We Are 'Not Interested' in US F-35 Fighters: Indian Air Force Chief - Other Media news - Tasnim News Agency
TEHRAN (Tasnim) - The Indian Air Force (IAF) has once again denied reports that it is interested in procuring Lockheed Martin's F-35 fighter jets. IAF chief B. S. Dhanoa has categorically rubbished such reports in a section of the Indian media.
There was no lack of support aircraft. The IAF was supported by the Phalcon and also EW aircraft.
The RoE was the defining factor. Pretty ridiculous to not have relaxed the RoE.
Pretty much.
Although I do hope the Americans offer the real deal, like the PCA and B-21, PCA mainly. But instead they want us to buy their junk.
Hopefully, with the renewed urgency in modernisation, I hope the govt makes adequate allocation from next year. I'm sure the defence budget for this year will also be bigger than planned, although we won't get to know much at this time.
When the GTG deal was negotiated, the IAF wanted the order to be for 80 jets instead of 36. But the govt pointed out more can be bought if needed. Plus, this allows room to negotiate for a more advanced version. Even the GTG deal was for a more advanced version than the one negotiated during MMRCA.
As a part compensation, if you will - Yet to lay hands on S400 - which is perhaps the best out there, but no one knows really - if that's really some sort of consolation
The S-400 removes the need for more fighter jet presence. This is especially so against Pakistan if 3 regiments are arrayed to deal with the PAF. It will allow the IAF to earmark more jets for the mountains, where long range SAMs are significantly less useful.
It's simple, really. Three of the 5 regiments will pretty much cover the entire Pak border in the plains. And 3 regiments can be procured in just 3 or 4 years. However we may need as much as 3-4 squadrons to cover the same area, and the procurement of that many squadrons may take as much as 5-10 years according to our IST. Of course the cost is also much cheaper. So we will be saving a lot of time and effort to fill the gaps by going for the SAMs.
Whether the S-400 works well against upcoming Chinese jets or not, time will tell. But Pakistan literally has nothing they can use against the S-400 today. In the meantime, the S-400 is also capable of BMD, which creates new problems for Pakistan since the S-400 has been designed to stop every single ballistic missile that Pakistan has in its arsenal. So you can imagine the cost Pakistan will incur in order to requip their entire strategic force.
Thrust to weight ratio.
To get an idea, take total wet thrust of the F-35 (19.3T) and divide it by (empty weight + 50% fuel). Do this with other jets and compare. Finally compare it with AMCA's officially released specs. This will tell you what you need to know.
Tail rotor,in a conjusted environment it's security risk for the ground crew who operates near to the hot copter. Areas like Siachen is itself is challenging place to wor,your brain may not be proactive in copup with that situation,
Indian top military brass in my opinion is very low IQ.... like most generals they portray in entertainment industry. Not guys from technical side though.
Just look at Dhanoa latest interview. Does he sound professional in any sense. sound more like a jingoistic political appointee. India is going in wrong path in my opinion.
Just look at Dhanoa latest interview. Does he sound professional in any sense. sound more like a jingoistic political appointee. India is going in wrong path in my opinion.
My post nowhere implies that we should wait for F35. Rather my post implies that due to existing babudom, we are too late for any forth generation jet procurement. Time frame between 2000 to mid 2000s was okay for newer 4th generation jets, post which we are just fooling ourselves, nothing more nothing less. We would had got all the jets by 2015 at max and by 2020s MLU would have been in pipeline with whole procurement focus on 5th generation jets whether domestic or foreign. MIG29 & Mirage 2000 should have been already upgraded and in the last leg of service. That is my personal opinion.
Instead we have got MIG21, Jaguar which should have been out of service at least a decade back. How much headache it was to sustain even normal ops in the air 12-13 years back for fleet of Jaguars, and then we have "professors" here who paint such a rosy picture how advanced IAF assets are theoretically. Well let's just say, there is difference in theoretically & practically laying your hands on such assets.
we are in a mess in my opinion....Chinese are building J 20 like no tomorrow....say whatever about it's stealth.... that thing is going to cause us trouble down the line. I hope Dhanoa loud mouth doesn't come back to bite us.
Beggars can't be choosers, it is so very much apt and suitable here! There is a limit to which anybody can afford to peddle propaganda. I don't have any wish-list, only some logical timelines & capabilities and both of which are not only out of time but also degraded severely in current state. Writing long essays especially "high" propaganda" causes satire to be totally missed and most certainly is sign of chauvinism.You are a pretty interesting fella. Fail to see what the IAF is actually doing, but at the same time creating your own fictional wishlist and then telling others to live in reality.
A lot of people, especially here, do not understand what the IAF needs the jets to do, and what sort of capability is required to do those tasks. Not to mention, zero clue about which jets can perform what tasks. Basically, I"m saying many people here do not know what a bike, car, truck, auto and bull dozer do.
Maybe some day you will figure this out:
"There is not talk on F-35. The Indian Air Force has not evinced interest and not talked to anyone. It is incorrect to report that we are interested in F-35," Air Chief Marshal B. S. Dhanoa said at a program organized by a think tank in New Delhi on Thursday evening, Sputnik reported.We Are 'Not Interested' in US F-35 Fighters: Indian Air Force Chief - Other Media news - Tasnim News Agency
TEHRAN (Tasnim) - The Indian Air Force (IAF) has once again denied reports that it is interested in procuring Lockheed Martin's F-35 fighter jets. IAF chief B. S. Dhanoa has categorically rubbished such reports in a section of the Indian media.www.tasnimnews.com
The fact that you hear about F35 in my earlier post is on one hand testament to the delays critically inflicted on procurement plans and on the other hand full of satirical element.
Now read it again and I am very much sure you will get it this time"There is the third option in future if this deal doesn't get through. India might go for F35 altogether as well theoretically speaking. Nothing can be ruled out when it comes to Indian babudom and procurement saga.".
The elementary mistake you made in your attempt at satire is you failed to understand the subject. Your satire fell flat since your "third option" did not carry a superior qualifier.
I don't think you understand the term "Beggars can't be choosers", since this situation is the exact opposite. We are making the beggar choice. Otoh, it's the Americans who have made the "wealthy" choice, and no, it's not what you're thinking.
And, no, it's not chauvinism, it's merely a simple understanding of a few facts, facts that the Americans already know and the Israelis have identified, but something you failed to realise, even after I pointed you in the right direction.
To sum it up, your initial attempt at satire failed, then you used an idiom completely out of context, and ended it with trying to camoflauge your own unrealised ignorance by attempting to poke fun at me. I think you have to brush up on the subject before attempting humour on it.
Finally someone started speaking sense about Chinese product,no military will like to induct a junk product to defend its nation,a wealthy country like china too.
If you fail to get the satire & its context, it is not my elementary mistake! Third option was just part of satire, not even the full satire! "Beggars can't be choosers." is specifically in response to your lofty claims in post 2066, whether you get it or not is none of my concern.
And no, I don't need the "theoretical essay" writer with chauvinism to know what goes inside one of major bases in western command airbase dealing with bomber fleet majorly, nowadays MKIs also. Unlike some, I don't need only published & secondary sources for parroting propaganda theory over & over again to make it seem like fact & truth. Thank you.
Since your initial post was a poor attempt at meaningless satire, then there's no point continuing. I thought there were still some people who were flying kites even today with respect to the F-35 who needed some correction. Cheers.
Rafale would be the better choice but we miss out on growler if we don't buy the fa 18. The capability jump is going to be huge if we buy the super hornets..
If you are interested, you can go through the below article. It gives the comparison between not only different aircraft but also the strengths(weakness of every jet can be observed by looking on those strengths which are not listed jet wise.)
TOPGUN instructor (and former F-14/F/A-18 crew) assesses Tomcat versus Meteor-armed Typhoon fight & list top 5 BVR fighters 2020
Imagine a beyond visual range duel between the F-14 Tomcat and Typhoon. Both would be armed with phenomenally long ranged weapons, and both would be piloted by well trained aircrew with powerful sensors. So who would win?
Hypothetical BVR duel between a F-14D with Phoenix Missiles and Typhoon with Meteor: For any comparison in a BVR duel, you have to first look at the platform (ability to detect or be detected based upon RCS) and its sensors (radar or other sensors). There are multiple spectra to consider these days, like RF, IR, and visual, that when combined with ECM, ECCM, and the all-important launch altitude and airspeed of your aircraft and the enemy aircraft, that can make the duel very interesting. Think Stealth, Speed, Altitude and Sensors.
And then you need to look at the aircrew. Their training, their propensity to commit to a deadly head-to-head BVR missile dual. Do I want to risk my life today for the dictator/autocrat/party official who told me to go launch against NATO/Coalition forces? So, you look at the people, and the aircraft first even before looking at the missile. Manfred von Richthofen said, “The quality of the box matters little. Success depends on the man who sits in it.” However, at TOPGUN, we also said, “But the box does matter!”
And then the missile. When can the seeker go active? Do I even need a radar track? Can I just shoot and leave immediately? How fast is the enemy’s missile? Can I launch undetected? Can I detect incoming
fire? Will I get the first shot off? If I don’t get the first shot off, can I run away before shooting my missiles, defeat his first volley, then turn around and run him down with my excessive speed and gas and kill him when he is trying to get back to base? Remember, Chuck Yeager shot down an Me 262 that was in the landing pattern.
Now, putting all of that together. Meteor is a very long-range missile with an active seeker and an impressive throttleable ducted ramjet. The missile gets high and fast, just not incredibly high or incredibly fast since it is breathing air and zipping along in the thin air, just not the really thin air. But very formidable when you look at its estimated no escape zones in all quarters. Typhoon, as your readers know, is an extremely impressive fighter with great sensors and can get high and fast to launch. It only has a fraction of the gas of the TOMCAT and is feeding two engines as well.
So to the comparison, the Typhoon, with its AESA (editor note: AESA should be operational on the Typhoon later this year) and IRST would see the big (huge RCS) Tomcat at long range coming at it at just under Mach 2, and track the Tomcat to achieve launch parameters with the METEOR at range.
The F-14D with all of its sensors, high power out, IRST, Data Links and SA, and trained two-person aircrew with ability to artfully manage launch acceptability regions, would be formidable. The F-14D with its massive GE motors and 20,000 lbs. of gas at takeoff, and its swing wings allowing very high speeds, and would be up in the thinnest air possible to try to out-stick the METEOR with its AIM-54C+ missiles. It could get a firing solution at an extremely long range. The TOMCAT would likely be able to see the Typhoon at Phoenix launch range. -The METEOR can go farther than the Phoenix downrange, but speed in this case is extremely important and the quality of the seeker is paramount. The AIM-54C+ had a phenomenal seeker with digital processing tricks that would blow your mind, and with a large active radar in its nose and high power out, could go active way out at range, and allow the TOMCAT to turn (at Mach 2 it’s a big turn!) and run away…possibly before the METEOR could run it down.
So, what is the bottom line? Somebody with a high-speed supercomputer and hundreds of hours of computer time and experience could figure it out for you, but my gut says, since the METEOR can just go forever – I think the advantage here could go to the METEOR (launched from a Typhoon) in a 1V1 head-on BVR matchup with the Phoenix (launched from the F-14D). But it would be really close. Great question.
Today with the PL-15, R-33 and Meteor other aircraft have very long range AAMs- has the US temporarily lost the advantage in long range AAMs or are they an unlikely weapon for the real world?
This one is easy to answer. The US has unparalleled stealth aircraft and that counters the threat missiles and aircraft mentioned. But the US is never interested in parity or just countering a threat. It has and will continue to invest heavily in missile technology, and is really good at keeping secret what it actually has and will pull out on day one of the war. The threat from China and Russia is real, and the US takes their actions very seriously. The US industry supplies the best ‘kit’ in the world and that remains a deterrent to potential adversaries.
What would you consider the top 5 BVR platforms in service today and why?
Remember what I told you in question 1, for the platform it is stealth, sensors, speed and altitude. For BVR, in order:
- F-22 – stealth, sensors, speed and altitude,
- F-35 – stealth, sensors, altitude
3. Su-35 – speed, altitude, weapon loadout; a very formidable threat in many categories
4. F-15 – sensors, speed, altitude, partial stealth*, endurance, AAM loadout (qty)
(*Editor notes: I think this ‘partial stealth’ assessment refers to future F-15s but I’m checking this with the author)
5. F/A-18E/F Block II/III – sensors, altitude, endurance, partial stealth, AAM loadout (qty). In a tie with: Typhoon – sensors, altitude, speed, limited stealth, METEOR
TOPGUN instructor (and former F-14/F/A-18 crew) assesses Tomcat versus Meteor-armed Typhoon fight & list top 5 BVR fighters 2020
Doug ‘Boog’ Denneny is a former TOPGUN Instructor and F-14 RIO/Super Hornet WSO. He commanded VF-2 and VFA-2 and has over 3500 hours in Navy fighters. After retirement from th…
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We will have to buy their junk before we can buy their quality products. That's why they are interested. We will have sign the deal with the devil if we want that technology. Otherwise Americans are never gonna sell us...
If that were the case, why are the USAF and USN upgrading their F-15 and F-18 with Rafale-like systems instead of buying more F-35s?
