MMRCA 2.0 - Updates and Discussions

[randomradio]

Against Chinese fighters,yeas it is survivable and even destroy most of the Chinese platforms like su35.only grey area is j20 vs f15. Even Rafale vs J20 scenario too a grey area.
Against s400 both Rafale & F15 will have tough time, but the advantages of f15 is the option of advanced & upcoming s400 neutralizing weapons from USA.

According to the Americans, after 2030, even the F-22 is not going to be survivable against future versions of the J-20. It's actually one of the reasons why they have accelerated the development of PCA.

https://www.af.mil/Portals/1/documents/airpower/Air%20Superiority%202030%20Flight%20Plan.pdf

Emerging integrated and networked air-to-air, surface-to-air, space and cyberspace threats, as well as aging and shrinking fleets of US weapon systems, threaten the Air Force’s ability to provide air superiority at the times and places required in the highly contested operational environments of 2030 and beyond.

Threat capabilities are likely to advance along two major vectors over the next 15 years. First, traditional threat systems will continue to evolve and proliferate. Along this threat vector are advanced fighter aircraft, sensors, and weapons. While near-peers have most of these capabilities today, advanced air and surface threats are spreading to other countries around the world. Air superiority forces will face growing numbers of these threats across a wide range of locations and scenarios in 2030.

The Air Force’s projected force structure in 2030 is not capable of fighting and winning against this array of potential adversary capabilities.

Which basically means, the F-22 and F-35 are going to be inadequate beyond 2030.

Read this:

The US Air Force’s radical plan for a future fighter could field a jet in 5 years

The U.S. Air Force is seeking rapid-fire plane production as it tries to surpass the capabilities of near-peer competitors like Russia and China.

www.defensenews.com

The Americans are buying F-15s so that they can operate the jets primarily in mainland US, where there is no real threat, so there's no need to use advanced technologies there. A secondary role is to provide missile support to the F-35 until such time drones capable of providing the same are developed and fielded by 2035. If the F-22 and F-35 are incapable of handling future threats, then what makes you think the F-15 can?

The F-15EX is simply a Su-30 (not even a Su-30MKI) with an AESA radar, and we are gonna get a few hundred of those by 2030 anyway. With some minor airframe modifications and plumbing for drop tanks, the MKI will do pretty much everything the F-15 can and more. It can even carry the endless amount of missiles, which is actually useless to us, because the American operating environment is very different from ours. One of its advertised capabilities is its ability to carry a heavy weapon in the centerline that weighs as much as 3000Kg, like the Brahmos-A (lol).

It's nothing more than a Su-30MKI(--) with an AESA radar. It's quite literally a downgrade for India. It can't dog fight, hence can't do most of the missions we want it to do. It's too big and heavy to meet MMRCA logistics criteria. And the basic technologies used on it are all pretty much outdated. They have kept the jet cheap for induction because of its limited capabilities, they claim a 80-90% commonality with the obsolete F-15C, because that's how they bagged the contract for the Air National Guard, as a cheap replacement for their F-15C/Ds. Basically, if a modern fighter jet radar today doesn't come with GaN, there's no point in looking at it. And except for the American jets, all other jets in MMRCA will come with GaN radars.

 

[Hydra]

According to the Americans, after 2030, even the F-22 is not going to be survivable against future versions of the J-20. It's actually one of the reasons why they have accelerated the development of PCA.

https://www.af.mil/Portals/1/documents/airpower/Air%20Superiority%202030%20Flight%20Plan.pdf

Emerging integrated and networked air-to-air, surface-to-air, space and cyberspace threats, as well as aging and shrinking fleets of US weapon systems, threaten the Air Force’s ability to provide air superiority at the times and places required in the highly contested operational environments of 2030 and beyond.

Threat capabilities are likely to advance along two major vectors over the next 15 years. First, traditional threat systems will continue to evolve and proliferate. Along this threat vector are advanced fighter aircraft, sensors, and weapons. While near-peers have most of these capabilities today, advanced air and surface threats are spreading to other countries around the world. Air superiority forces will face growing numbers of these threats across a wide range of locations and scenarios in 2030.

The Air Force’s projected force structure in 2030 is not capable of fighting and winning against this array of potential adversary capabilities.

Which basically means, the F-22 and F-35 are going to be inadequate beyond 2030.

Read this:

The US Air Force’s radical plan for a future fighter could field a jet in 5 years

The U.S. Air Force is seeking rapid-fire plane production as it tries to surpass the capabilities of near-peer competitors like Russia and China.

www.defensenews.com

The Americans are buying F-15s so that they can operate the jets primarily in mainland US, where there is no real threat, so there's no need to use advanced technologies there. A secondary role is to provide missile support to the F-35 until such time drones capable of providing the same are developed and fielded by 2035. If the F-22 and F-35 are incapable of handling future threats, then what makes you think the F-15 can?

The F-15EX is simply a Su-30 (not even a Su-30MKI) with an AESA radar, and we are gonna get a few hundred of those by 2030 anyway. With some minor airframe modifications and plumbing for drop tanks, the MKI will do pretty much everything the F-15 can and more. It can even carry the endless amount of missiles, which is actually useless to us, because the American operating environment is very different from ours. One of its advertised capabilities is its ability to carry a heavy weapon in the centerline that weighs as much as 3000Kg, like the Brahmos-A (lol).

It's nothing more than a Su-30MKI(--) with an AESA radar. It's quite literally a downgrade for India. It can't dog fight, hence can't do most of the missions we want it to do. It's too big and heavy to meet MMRCA logistics criteria. And the basic technologies used on it are all pretty much outdated. They have kept the jet cheap for induction because of its limited capabilities, they claim a 80-90% commonality with the obsolete F-15C, because that's how they bagged the contract for the Air National Guard, as a cheap replacement for their F-15C/Ds. Basically, if a modern fighter jet radar today doesn't come with GaN, there's no point in looking at it. And except for the American jets, all other jets in MMRCA will come with GaN radars.

If f22 cannot survive against j20 beyond 2030, then tell me how Rafale will survive against j20? Will you ask IAF to induct rafale now?

 

[Hydra]

@randomradio
I had said it earlier, your hatred towards America should not blind your visions. On which world F15 EX, which is an evolved version of F15 stand below su30? I fear MKI may even perform poorly against f16blk52, feb27 air battle exposes lot of lacuna existing with our airforce including mki's constraints.

 

[RISING SUN]

France was and remains a strong partner of India.
For years.

Yes it is. We count Russia, France and Israeli nations as countries with whom our maximum interest convergence happens. Russians have been very helpful militarily in last 70 years both deployment & restricted information sharing even if not as modern as western technology. France has been top India backer from western world for India. I have recollection of memories from only last 20-25 years and I don't find any negativity coming from France. Israel has been our mutual interest friend from well before our diplomatic relations were established. Most of the things happen behind the curtain or some can say in shadows. Hence people's tacit support as well.

On the other hand we consider UK bubbling over between us and Pakistan every now & then, though we have good relations and a huge diaspora there but there is simmering unspoken support to terrorism like Khalistan and Pakistan headquartered groups, hence bilateral relationship intensity never reaches top level with our country. Same story with Canada as well.

US, Australia and other EU countries are new players and it will take time & equal efforts for relationship to get in top line.

No expert, just my personal observations.

 

[STEPHEN COHEN]

If f22 cannot survive against j20 beyond 2030, then tell me how Rafale will survive against j20? Will you ask IAF to induct rafale now?

If Stealth plane becomes absolutely necessary , then only SU 57 is available to India

 

[Hydra]

If Stealth plane becomes absolutely necessary , then only SU 57 is available to India

Stealth & su57, hmm... You know why IAF has pulled off from SU 57/FGFA Pprogram? Lack of stealth & inferior engine coupled with poor avionics. People used to add tot, but ithink tot is not a concern of IAF.

Lastly not least, our current IAF chief RK Bhaduaria sir himself said that the only stealth aircraft IAF gonna induct will be AMCA.

 

[Nikhil]

If f22 cannot survive against j20 beyond 2030, then tell me how Rafale will survive against j20? Will you ask IAF to induct rafale now?

You are assuming Chinese tech is on par with west. if you look at there procurement they are still buying russian systems or passing copy of
Russian system as there own. Russian technology is generation behind there western counterparts. In many fields probably more. So J 20 may have surpass SU 35 which itself is not that advance..but it's nowhere close to any Western jet period.

 

[Hydra]

You are assuming Chinese tech is on par with west. if you look at there procurement they are still buying russian systems or passing copy of
Russian system as there own. Russian technology is generation behind there western counterparts. In many fields probably more. So J 20 may have surpass SU 35 which itself is not that advance..but it's nowhere close to any Western jet period.

J20 definitely a threat we cannot undermine it, but the above my reply was a response to @randomradio.

 

[randomradio]

If f22 cannot survive against j20 beyond 2030, then tell me how Rafale will survive against j20? Will you ask IAF to induct rafale now?

The Rafale's EW suite will prevent it from dying at the hands of missiles and radars. That's its speciality.

11:25

Bien sur nous somme dans des domaines un peu confidentiel, mais disons que la signature vue par l'avant d'un Rafale c'est la signature d'un moineau.
Translation: Of course we are in areas somewhat confidential, but we can say that the front view signature of a Rafale is the signature of a sparrow.

@randomradio
I had said it earlier, your hatred towards America should not blind your visions. On which world F15 EX, which is an evolved version of F15 stand below su30? I fear MKI may even perform poorly against f16blk52, feb27 air battle exposes lot of lacuna existing with our airforce including mki's constraints.

I have no hatred towards American weapons. I only don't like American junk. All the teens are junk in today's world, compared to the other jets on offer.

The Su-30MKI with an AESA radar and modern missile will have a significant advantage over the F-15EX. The Typhoon would actually be next generation in comparison to the F-15EX.

 

[Hydra]

According to the Americans, after 2030, even the F-22 is not going to be survivable against future versions of the J-20. It's actually one of the reasons why they have accelerated the development of PCA.

https://www.af.mil/Portals/1/documents/airpower/Air%20Superiority%202030%20Flight%20Plan.pdf

Emerging integrated and networked air-to-air, surface-to-air, space and cyberspace threats, as well as aging and shrinking fleets of US weapon systems, threaten the Air Force’s ability to provide air superiority at the times and places required in the highly contested operational environments of 2030 and beyond.

Threat capabilities are likely to advance along two major vectors over the next 15 years. First, traditional threat systems will continue to evolve and proliferate. Along this threat vector are advanced fighter aircraft, sensors, and weapons. While near-peers have most of these capabilities today, advanced air and surface threats are spreading to other countries around the world. Air superiority forces will face growing numbers of these threats across a wide range of locations and scenarios in 2030.

The Air Force’s projected force structure in 2030 is not capable of fighting and winning against this array of potential adversary capabilities.

Which basically means, the F-22 and F-35 are going to be inadequate beyond 2030.

Read this:

The US Air Force’s radical plan for a future fighter could field a jet in 5 years

The U.S. Air Force is seeking rapid-fire plane production as it tries to surpass the capabilities of near-peer competitors like Russia and China.

www.defensenews.com

The Americans are buying F-15s so that they can operate the jets primarily in mainland US, where there is no real threat, so there's no need to use advanced technologies there. A secondary role is to provide missile support to the F-35 until such time drones capable of providing the same are developed and fielded by 2035. If the F-22 and F-35 are incapable of handling future threats, then what makes you think the F-15 can?

The F-15EX is simply a Su-30 (not even a Su-30MKI) with an AESA radar, and we are gonna get a few hundred of those by 2030 anyway. With some minor airframe modifications and plumbing for drop tanks, the MKI will do pretty much everything the F-15 can and more. It can even carry the endless amount of missiles, which is actually useless to us, because the American operating environment is very different from ours. One of its advertised capabilities is its ability to carry a heavy weapon in the centerline that weighs as much as 3000Kg, like the Brahmos-A (lol).

It's nothing more than a Su-30MKI(--) with an AESA radar. It's quite literally a downgrade for India. It can't dog fight, hence can't do most of the missions we want it to do. It's too big and heavy to meet MMRCA logistics criteria. And the basic technologies used on it are all pretty much outdated. They have kept the jet cheap for induction because of its limited capabilities, they claim a 80-90% commonality with the obsolete F-15C, because that's how they bagged the contract for the Air National Guard, as a cheap replacement for their F-15C/Ds. Basically, if a modern fighter jet radar today doesn't come with GaN, there's no point in looking at it. And except for the American jets, all other jets in MMRCA will come with GaN radars.

If my understanding is correct none of the jet in mmeca 2 except Gripen is having GaAn AESA radar,i think so correct me if i am wrong.

And with new MOD's node ,Grippen & possibly F16 is literally out of mmrca2 competition.

 

[Nikhil]

The Rafale's EW suite will prevent it from dying at the hands of missiles and radars. That's its speciality.

11:25

Bien sur nous somme dans des domaines un peu confidentiel, mais disons que la signature vue par l'avant d'un Rafale c'est la signature d'un moineau.
Translation: Of course we are in areas somewhat confidential, but we can say that the front view signature of a Rafale is the signature of a sparrow.



I have no hatred towards American weapons. I only don't like American junk. All the teens are junk in today's world, compared to the other jets on offer.

The Su-30MKI with an AESA radar and modern missile will have a significant advantage over the F-15EX. The Typhoon would actually be next generation in comparison to the F-15EX.

American system are no way junk....you have serious prejudice against US system for some reason & SU 30 MKI with AESA ? which AESA you think SU 30 MKI will use.....if russian then sorry to bust your bubble , no russian AESA is close to there western counterparts especially American.

If Stealth plane becomes absolutely necessary , then only SU 57 is available to India

SU 57 in its current form has inferior radar, electronics, EW system , engine, stealth. Its no way a good 5th generation bet.

 

[suryakiran]

If f22 cannot survive against j20 beyond 2030, then tell me how Rafale will survive against j20? Will you ask IAF to induct rafale now?

Why would you duplicate the Su-30 with the F-15? It makes more sense to upgrade the Su-30, than buy a new plane for which the entire logistics chain needs to be created.

Battles are won on the basis of logistics and integrated pieces. Not on the basis of set pieces. There is a reason why the Su-30 is used with the Mig-21. Why the Mirage 2000 does what it is supposed to do. And there is a reason why the Rafale is being bought.

The F-15 makes sense, if you are retiring the entire Su-30 fleet. Which part of this is difficult to comprehend?

 

[Hydra]

The Rafale's EW suite will prevent it from dying at the hands of missiles and radars. That's its speciality.

11:25

Bien sur nous somme dans des domaines un peu confidentiel, mais disons que la signature vue par l'avant d'un Rafale c'est la signature d'un moineau.
Translation: Of course we are in areas somewhat confidential, but we can say that the front view signature of a Rafale is the signature of a sparrow.



I have no hatred towards American weapons. I only don't like American junk. All the teens are junk in today's world, compared to the other jets on offer.

The Su-30MKI with an AESA radar and modern missile will have a significant advantage over the F-15EX. The Typhoon would actually be next generation in comparison to the F-15EX.

What made you to think that F15EX's EW suit will inferior to Rafale? F15EX is an evolving platform and it's pretty new aircraft. A company made Growler will put inferior EW suit on its upcoming product?An aircraft which borrows tech from an existing Gen5 fighter will have inferior EW? My brain is telling no. And compares to Rafale,F15EX enjoys a huge variety of weapon of choices including derby & spice. If we purchase f15, definitely IAF gonna get AGM158c & AIM 260.

Question is Su30MKI with AESA, in which world it exist an MKI with aesa? Do you have any concrete time line of MKI upgradation? What i know is IAF is terribly unhappy with the Russian AESA fighter sized radar due to its poor performance & range.

 

[Hydra]

Why would you duplicate the Su-30 with the F-15? It makes more sense to upgrade the Su-30, than buy a new plane for which the entire logistics chain needs to be created.

Battles are won on the basis of logistics and integrated pieces. Not on the basis of set pieces. There is a reason why the Su-30 is used with the Mig-21. Why the Mirage 2000 does what it is supposed to do. And there is a reason why the Rafale is being bought.

The F-15 makes sense, if you are retiring the entire Su-30 fleet. Which part of this is difficult to comprehend?

If logistics is what your concern is, then adding more MKI makes sense instead of Rafale, But here IAF is looking for capabilities here,and in the new changed threat environment we need f15EX to do offensive action against Chinese in Tibet & in SCS. Rafale definitely brings you offensive capabilities against Pakistan & PAF,but against chines it will be a defensive platform.

Why IAF if inducting Rafale when you have mirages,jaguars & Mig29 UPGs? All these aircrafs are medium category aircrafts.

 

[randomradio]

If my understanding is correct none of the jet in mmeca 2 except Gripen is having GaAn AESA radar,i think so correct me if i am wrong.

And with new MOD's node ,Grippen & possibly F16 is literally out of mmrca2 competition.

All the jets except American jets have GaN. I didn't consider the Su-35 as it's not even worth being called a contender.

The Swedes have offered their own GaN radar that's better than what they themselves plan to use. The Russians have developed a new radar for the Mig-35, it's undergoing testing. The Typhoon will come with the Radar 2 with GaN. And the Rafale F4.2 comes with a 360 degree GaN radar.

What's "MOD's node"? Anyway, the deal is primarily for medium weight aircraft. So Gripen, F-16, Su-35 and F-15 are not going to get through to the shortlist due to the weight difference.

What made you to think that F15EX's EW suit will inferior to Rafale? F15EX is an evolving platform and it's pretty new aircraft. A company made Growler will put inferior EW suit on its upcoming product?An aircraft which borrows tech from an existing Gen5 fighter will have inferior EW? My brain is telling no. And compares to Rafale,F15EX enjoys a huge variety of weapon of choices including derby & spice. If we purchase f15, definitely IAF gonna get AGM158c & AIM 260.

How is a less advanced EW suite that's still under development superior to a more advanced combat proven EW suite?

Weapon choices for Indian MMRCA jets will be quite extensive as well. I'd prefer the Meteor over the AIM-260. Anyway, most of the weapons we use will be Indian for MMRCA.

Question is Su30MKI with AESA, in which world it exist an MKI with aesa? Do you have any concrete time line of MKI upgradation? What i know is IAF is terribly unhappy with the AESA fighter sized radar due to its poor performance & range.

Let's say the Russian AESA is late for MKI. Even if the first phase of MKI get the Irbis-E, considering the ridiculous timeline of the upcoming tender, we will have MKIs flying with AESA radar before the first F-15 is inducted. The tender alone will take as much as 7 years at the minimum for us to get the first batch of jets. If we sign a contract for F-15s in 2025, then we will get the first squadron in 2028-29, all optimistic dates. Is it difficult to believe the MKI will get an AESA radar by then? The transition to the F-15 alone will take beyond 2030 for the IAF with such an extended timeline.

The IAF has never commented on Russian AESA radars, so nobody knows what they really think.

 

[Nikhil]

this SU 57 radar is the one they are claiming for SU 30 MKI upgrade lol.

• N036 Byelka AESA.

slotted waveguide antenna array.

People keep comparing it to AN/APG-77,81 AESA on F 35, F 22 with its 1,552 TRM count without realising that western AESA are generation ahead of this thing.

• AN/APG 81 notch radiators( TSA)

notch radiators can take higher power loads... offer superior bandwidth, higher gain , higher directivity hence greater range, have better resolution, better ECCM , EW's capability , better LPI characteristics, higher operation mode etc.
• Here another probable Russian radar for upgradation for SU 30MKI

New Zhuk series AESA radars... going in for testing for MIG 35.
Those shinning ring radiators though ( lovely ) .... which do offer higher bandwidth compared to simple patch radiator we use to see in older russian AESA but nowhere close to notch radiators of there western counterparts.

This also show how far behind Russia still is in material, electronic & packaging technology compared to Europe & US. But since Putin propaganda brigade is strong nothing else matters.

 

[Hydra]

All the jets except American jets have GaN. I didn't consider the Su-35 as it's not even worth being called a contender.

The Swedes have offered their own GaN radar that's better than what they themselves plan to use. The Russians have developed a new radar for the Mig-35, it's undergoing testing. The Typhoon will come with the Radar 2 with GaN. And the Rafale F4.2 comes with a 360 degree GaN radar.

What's "MOD's node"? Anyway, the deal is primarily for medium weight aircraft. So Gripen, F-16, Su-35 and F-15 are not going to get through to the shortlist due to the weight difference.



How is a less advanced EW suite that's still under development superior to a more advanced combat proven EW suite?

Weapon choices for Indian MMRCA jets will be quite extensive as well. I'd prefer the Meteor over the AIM-260. Anyway, most of the weapons we use will be Indian for MMRCA.



Let's say the Russian AESA is late for MKI. Even if the first phase of MKI get the Irbis-E, considering the ridiculous timeline of the upcoming tender, we will have MKIs flying with AESA radar before the first F-15 is inducted. The tender alone will take as much as 7 years at the minimum for us to get the first batch of jets. If we sign a contract for F-15s in 2025, then we will get the first squadron in 2028-29, all optimistic dates. Is it difficult to believe the MKI will get an AESA radar by then? The transition to the F-15 alone will take beyond 2030 for the IAF with such an extended timeline.

The IAF has never commented on Russian AESA radars, so nobody knows what they really think.

Can you please provide any link regarding GaAn Radar on Mig35,Rafale & Typhoon.I have searched it in net, couldn't find anything. I might have searched it in a wrong area.
And IAF has allowed light,medium & heavy fighters to participate in mmrca2,it's MOD has banned Tejas like fighters from importing overseas . So technically, Gripen & possibly F16 is out but rest of the medium & hevy are still in competition.

Regarding,EW system of f15. You don't have any clue on how advanced or inferior it is, neither i too have. But logically speaking it's under development & borrows directly from a fifth gen fighter must be advanced than an existing fighter,also it's an air superiority fighter. So there is no reason to believe that it is a junk. And asper you itself first jet from mmrca will not fly in 7 years, ample of time for f15 to get mature.

None of the fighter barring f15,f18 & F15 have wide variety of weapon of choice. You can differ based on your perception on USA but fact won't change. And how do you think that AIM26o will be less superior to meteor? A country which has immense experience in air battle will not know the advantages & constraints of air breathing engine? AIM260 spec still under the shroud of secrecy.

Regarding MKI aesa,There are multiple reports on IAF unhappiness over Russians AESA radars, if you don't want to beleive it you are free to do it. And it's funny that an uncooked under performed Irbis E radar to be deployed on MKI during MID LIFE UPGRADE as stopgap measure, So once the proper radar is ready we will replace Irbis E? Do you have any idea of what is mid life upgrade? IAF is not a dumb to do that.

this SU 57 radar is the one they are claiming for SU 30 MKI upgrade lol.

• N036 Byelka AESA.
View attachment 17113slotted waveguide antenna array.

People keep comparing it to AN/APG-77,81 AESA on F 35, F 22 with its 1,552 TRM count without realising that western AESA are generation ahead of this thing.

• AN/APG 81 notch radiators( TSA)

View attachment 17114

notch radiators can take higher power loads... offer superior bandwidth, higher gain , higher directivity hence greater range, have better resolution, better ECCM , EW's capability , better LPI characteristics, higher operation mode etc.
• Here another probable Russian radar for upgradation for SU 30MKI

View attachment 17115

New Zhuk series AESA radars... going in for testing for MIG 35.
Those shinning ring radiators though ( lovely ) .... which do offer higher bandwidth compared to simple patch radiator we use to see in older russian AESA but nowhere close to notch radiators of there western counterparts.

This also show how far behind Russia still is in material, electronic & packaging technology compared to Europe & US. But since Putin propaganda brigade is strong nothing else matters.

Some people still didn't get a train from the era of non alignment & socialism. Can't help,they don't see all these things.

 

[JustCurious]

The problem is the su30 is a air superiority platform first and a ground striker later. That's why it hasn't been used for any airstrikes and also in balakot too it was used as a distraction. The f15ex can carry more than the su30 and has an enormous variety of a2g munitions. Examples being jassm er, nsm, kepd 350 , spice , jdam, cbu 97/105 . The list is endless. The su 30 only has brahmos ng and spice as comparable bombs the kh series of munitions come nowhere close the accuracy and capabilities of American munitions. A single f 15 can do the same job for which we ended up using five mirages. The Israelis use their f 15e's as deep strike bomber something which was given to our jaguars and everybody knows very well how they have been used by the IAF. Plus the mki doesn't have a dual pylons of the f15 atleast I have never seen on one of them and super Sukhoi upgrade won't make it a better ground striker. The f15 is not for replacing the mki's it's for complementing the mki and rafale's and replacing the jaguars,mig23,mig27,mig 29. The mki's are amazing planes. The recent 27th Feb drama has been deliberately used to badmouth it. The likes of abhijit mitra ( who makes great points most of the time) are basically peddling Lockheed Martin sales pitches to the point that he thinks the tejas is a failure of a plane and considers it to be inferior to the jf 17. The mki's can be used as are workhorse for aerial combat. While the rafale can be our silver bullet and the f15ex are ground strikers. The Tejas/MWF should replace the rest of our fleet of mig 21,mirage and mig 29. The su 30 and tejas can work in conjunction for our defensive posture and rafale's and f15 can be used for offensive strikes...

You have narrated it in a highly persuasive manner, buttressed with rational arguments that make complete sense.

Only one aspect has been missed: The kind of air-defense density IsAF or USAF has to negotiate through (Afro-Arab nations, militia-controlled territories amidst civil-war zone etc.) you can use a fighter designed in 70's & still see though it.

Whereas Chinese AAD landscape is a difference ballgame altogether (derivative of SU- now highly improved) & something that big (F-15EX) on the radar will shine through so-early & so-prominently that it wouldn't be able to make the desired impact & might be lost altogether. LO aircraft is must-have for successful, inexorable A2G strikes.

IAF already has enough for breaching/penetrating Pakistani-AirDefences & gaining total air-superiority in Pakistani airspace within 2 weeks, so do not need F-15EX for that.

Actually, it is a behemoth that doesn't even begins to fit in our existing/planned force-structure

 

[randomradio]

Can you please provide any link regarding GaAn Radar on Mig35,Rafale & Typhoon.I have searched it in net, couldn't find anything. I might have searched it in a wrong area.

You can find them in our own forum. Look back a few pages in their threads.

Here's a Russian GaN seeker.

Sukhoi Su-30MKI

Astra is better than Derby in range. Derby is WVR or slightly better. The longer range derby is not used by India IMO. So, I don't see a reason to go for derby except as a test bed till Astra matures. R77 is slightly unreliable and hence derby is needed for that. But, in 2-3 years, Astra will be...

www.strategicfront.org

And IAF has allowed light,medium & heavy fighters to participate in mmrca2,it's MOD has banned Tejas like fighters from importing overseas . So technically, Gripen & possibly F16 is out but rest of the medium & hevy are still in competition.

The tender is for twin engine medium weight, not single engine medium weight or twin engine heavy weight.

Regarding,EW system of f15. You don't have any clue on how advanced or inferior it is, neither i too have. But logically speaking it's under development & borrows directly from a fifth gen fighter must be advanced than an existing fighter,also it's an air superiority fighter. So there is no reason to believe that it is a junk. And asper you itself first jet from mmrca will not fly in 7 years, ample of time for f15 to get mature.

The F-15's maturity is irrelevant, because by then Rafale F4.2 will be out and it will be a generation ahead of the F-15.

None of the fighter barring f15,f18 & F15 have wide variety of weapon of choice. You can differ based on your perception on USA but fact won't change. And how do you think that AIM26o will be less superior to meteor? A country which has immense experience in air battle will not know the advantages & constraints of air breathing engine? AIM260 spec still under the shroud of secrecy.

India will have a very wide variety of indigenous weapons over the next few years. Subsonic, supersonic and hypersonic, both stealth and non-stealth. Long before the F-15 can become operational in the IAF. We won't need American weapons.

AIM-260 is not ramjet, so it's automatically inferior.

Regarding MKI aesa,There are multiple reports on IAF unhappiness over Russians AESA radars, if you don't want to beleive it you are free to do it. And it's funny that an uncooked under performed Irbis E radar to be deployed on MKI during MID LIFE UPGRADE as stopgap measure, So once the proper radar is ready we will replace Irbis E? Do you have any idea of what is mid life upgrade? IAF is not a dumb to do that.

There's nothing on IAF's opinions about Russian technology that's still under development. All you have read is articles from lobbies, like Ajai Shukla, who has a proven track record of lying and peddling American wares, to the point where he's even lied about that as well.

But it seems you are more than willing to believe MKI will get AESA radar right from the beginning. So that would mean MKI will get the radar long before the F-15 comes into Indian inventory. Hence the F-15 is a significant downgrade.

 

[Hydra]

You have narrated it in a highly persuasive manner, buttressed with rational arguments that make complete sense.

Only one aspect has been missed: The kind of air-defense density IsAF or USAF has to negotiate through (Afro-Arab nations, militia-controlled territories amidst civil-war zone etc.) you can use a fighter designed in 70's & still see though it.

Whereas Chinese AAD landscape is a difference ballgame altogether (derivative of SU- now highly improved) & something that big (F-15EX) on the radar will shine through so-early & so-prominently that it wouldn't be able to make the desired impact & might be lost altogether. LO aircraft is must-have for successful, inexorable A2G strikes.

IAF already has enough for breaching/penetrating Pakistani-AirDefences & gaining total air-superiority in Pakistani airspace within 2 weeks, so do not need F-15EX for that.

Actually, it is a behemoth that doesn't even begins to fit in our existing/planned force-structure

Early detection doesn't ensure a kill, if thats the case f16 would have killed all mki in feb27, also monstrously long-ranged radar of mki too have ensured an f16 kill on that day. And rafale is llo when it is in clean formation, i don't think rafale will go in to enemy airspace with clean configuration to take down chinese air defense.