MMRCA 2.0 - Updates and Discussions
- Thread starter Picdelamirand-oil
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I have a question for people who know: Does the MMRCA 2 or MRFA is cancelled ?
I'm not the one who envisages a capability for the Rafale without proof with fan boy arguments.
Wow, so they finally copied, 14 years later, the design philosophy of the Rafale's systems.
Indeed.
But mainly against third world air fleets.
Every one knows that the exported russian planes are downgraded (case of the Irakish Mig29). Not to speak of the low level of the pilots.
A Mig25/31 is a turkey against another fighter (because not agile enough : made for Mach 3 Valkyrie interception and reco).
Mig21, Mig27, Mirage F1.... are not decent opponents.
@Picdelamirand-oil
Hi, can you tell us what is the data transmission rate of rafale we operates? And can you compare the data link of link16, rafale f4 & rafale f3 data link.
Hi, can you tell us what is the data transmission rate of rafale we operates? And can you compare the data link of link16, rafale f4 & rafale f3 data link.
Mmrca 2 is in limbo right now, so it could happen or could be chucked down the garbage bin.
The f15 is not an unproven design like the mig 29 so he is not making fanboy arguments. It's a capable fighters the only problem being the rcs is too large though its superior to the rafale when it comes most avionics except the EW, agility and rcs....
No I don't know the data transmission rate of the Rafale, what I know is the following:
- Rafale F3 data link is link 16
- India data link for Rafale is the one you use for SU-30 MKI, and AWACS and P8I and so on. For the performance it is certainly very similar to link 16.
For Rafale F4 we will add a new data link:
With the advent of the F4 Standard, the Rafale will be equipped with the new Thales Contact software radios that will be widely fielded across the French Armed Forces in the next couple of years. These new-generation radios will remain fully compatible with legacy radio waves and should be tested on the Rafale as early as 2020.
The Rafale will also be fitted with a new point-to-point, directional, discreet, high-speed fighter data link to be used exclusively for communications and data exchange within a Rafale patrol. This will use a new three-dimensional waveform (FO3D, or Forme d’Onde 3 Dimensions) generated by digital signal processing using dedicated antennas for the required bandwidths and the expected data flow. This new fighter data link will supplement – and not replace – the current Link 16. Accordingly, the Rafale’s core avionics system will have to be modified to accommodate the two data link systems that will operate alongside each other (although they will not be linked).
Because the new link will be directional, compare to link 16, the flow will be improved by several orders of magnitude while improving the discretion of the link which can only be received in the direction it is emitted.
The architecture of the internal network will have to be modified for it to become even more resistant to cyber attack. The CAPOEIRA (Connectivité Améliorée Pour les Evolutions du Rafale, or improved connectivity for the Rafale’s future variants) research programme has recently been launched to help determine what sort of architecture will be required for a future, totally secure navigation and attack system.
In 2015, as part of an urgent operational requirement, the French Air Warfare Centre integrated a satellite communication (satcom) system into the Rafale. “This system will not be kept on the Rafale,” the programme director added. “The future military satcom will be encrypted, fully secure and impossible to intercept thanks to a military-grade antenna and a hardened modem. It will enable the Rafale to activate a communication relay mode between fighters and troops on the ground on one side, and higher echelons on the other.”
It's still being debated.
Either keep the tender or cancel the tender and buy more Rafale.
The decision has not yet been made.
That's an irrelevant question. Indian Rafales will be equipped with Rafael B-NET in the near future.
Push the Typhoon and Gripen down because of their outdated, detectable-jammable radars. And push the J-20 up 'cause it's being underestimated, especially in its latest J-20B avatar. Push the Su-35S out 'cause its current BVR weapon isn't good enough to even be on the list.
It's equivalent to 4G++ wireless technology, whereas Link 16 is like a 2G connection.
FEATURED
No More Rafales! Why Indian Air Force Could Reject Second Batch Of Dassault Rafale Jets?
Published
2 hours ago
on
September 20, 2020
By
EurAsian Times Desk
As the Indian Air Force (IAF) looks to further bolster its aerial fleet after the successful acquisition of French Dassault Rafales, its proposed Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) 2.0 contract for the procurement of 114 additional fighters will look for suitors from the best fighters on the face of the planet.
With the newly procured Rafales providing a solid foundation for the IAF to look out for an equal or an even better fighter jet, two options loom around for India to bank on, which include additional Rafale jets from France or the new F-15EX.
Despite the addition of the 4.5 generation Rafales, IAF’s current strength stands at 31 squadrons against the sanctioned one of 42 squadrons and with the threats of neighbors – China and Pakistan lurking around each of its borders, here are a few reasons that IAF experts believe why India could opt for F-15EX over additional Rafale jets.
SIZE, FRAME, SPEED AND RANGE
The most advanced version of the McDonnell Douglas F-15 Eagle twin-engine, all-weather tactical fighter jet, the F-15EX uses the frame of the classic F-15 and bears a resemblance to the Su-30 MKI in terms of its size.
Due to its size, the F-15EX fulfills a variety of roles like air superiority, interceptor, deep penetration strikes against enemy infrastructure, strategic bombing, and ground attack.
F-15EX has a combat range of 1,100 miles as compared to the 670 miles range offered by the F-35s. Moreover, the F-15EX has a speed of Mach 2.5 as compared to F-35s speed of Mach 1.6 and can accommodate heavy radars.
The F-35 however, due to its smaller stature, cannot accommodate heavy radars and fuel as compared to F-15EX.
A BETTER DOGFIGHTER
The F-35s are heavily loaded with stealth features and air-to-ground missions, which make it a less capable dogfighter than the F-15 EX in close quarters.
With Emerging threats from China and Pakistan, there is a need for an aircraft that can fly for longer hours, is heavily equipped with weapons systems, and is big enough to carry substantial fuel tanks, so that they do not have to return to the airbase for refueling.
F-15EX is just the fighter, with its predecessors already battle-tested in the middle-east and with their ability to strike deep into enemy terrority with the capability of carrying nuclear weapons makes them invincible. Even the US Air Force is looking to supplement their stealth F-35s jets with F-15EX for deep strike capabilities.
MORE WEAPONS
The F-15EX can carry twenty-two air-to-air missiles and other heavy weapons, including ASAT, JASSM-ER, GBU-28 Bunker Buster laser-guided bomb, hypersonic cruise missiles, and AGM-84H SLAM ER, which are far more than an F-35’s payload capacity.
The F-15EX’s massive weapon loadout makes it a beast in any “Beyond Visual Range” (BVR) fight and not only that, it carries more firepower than any other fighter jet currently deployed under the US Air Force.
A MULTIROLE FIGHTER
While an F-35 fighter is a proven valuable combat aircraft and serves as their most advanced jet in their inventory, the F-15EX serves a different role under the US Air Force. It can be used for enforcing no-fly zones, homeland defense, or delivering stand-off munitions in fights with no or limited air defenses.
F-15EX, being a heavy fighter is deployed for strategic effect due to their potent deterrent capability, as compared to their smaller cousin F-35, which has a much-restricted role. Therefore, it becomes easier for enemy aircraft or defense systems to engage against the smaller F-35s than be deployed against the more potent F-15EX.
Moreover, the F-35s’ combat role is further restricted due to its inability to carry more than eight missiles, while also not being able to carry heavy bombs to destroy strategic targets and enemy infrastructure.
The F-35 is an aircraft used for tactical operations and due to its limited role has less air supremacy than the F-15EX, which is an airspace dominance fighter. This means that the F-15EX can perform a variety of roles including cross border strikes, engaging in proximity fights with enemy fighter aircraft, destroying enemy ships while keeping the aircraft carriers at a safe distance.
SUITABILITY IN LADAKH REGION
With reports of the IAF deploying Su-30s, MKI, Jaguar, Mirage 2000 fighters and potentially the Rafales in the Ladakh region against the Chinese, the addition of the F-15EX could be a game-changer due to the fighter’s heavy engine capacities making it better suited to operability in high altitude regions.
It is predicted that there may come a time, when stealth drones carrying out the roles and functions of an F-35 fighter may end up replacing the jet. However, the possibility of that applying to a heavyweight fighter like the F-15EX is highly unlikely.
OPEN MISSION SYSTEMS ARCHITECTURE (OMS)
Developed by American aerospace juggernauts Boeing, the two-seat fighter overshadows its predecessor F-15s because of its Open Mission Systems (OMS) architecture.
According to Boeing, “The most significant difference between the F-15EX and legacy F-15s lies in its Open Mission Systems (OMS) architecture. The OMS architecture will enable the rapid insertion of the latest aircraft technologies.”
WHAT DO THE EXPERTS SAY?
Dr. Will Roper, Assistant Secretary of the Air Force for Acquisition, Technology, and Logistics, while praising the digital capabilities of the latest addition to the F-15 fighter family, says,
“The F-15EX’s digital backbone, open mission systems, and generous payload capacity fit well with our vision for future net-enabled warfare, cotinually upgrading systems, and how they share data across the Joint Force, is critical for defeating advanced threats. F-15EX is designed to evolve from day one.”
According to a serving Group Captain in the Indian Air Force who did not wish to be named, there is a need for India to get its hands on fighters apart from the Rafales and F-15EX falls into it.
“India doesn’t need to go out for Rafales again because we already have three dozens of them, at least by the time all our delivered. We need to look for a different fighter, which offers something extra, something on the lines of an F-35, Su-57 or the new F-15 (F-15EX) jets. The main idea was to have a superior air fleet which was settled with the French deal, now it is about adding extra quality to the ranks while also taking care of the quantity required by our forces.”
A Defence Expert, Rohit Thakur, who also manages an Indian Defence Website has labeled India’s plan as a welcome call to the F-15EX, with the F-15EX reported to have already been running for the earlier Indian Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) contract.
“IAF had already looked at the latest F-15 as an option for its air fleet and while it will also compete with the F-35s, India at the moment doesn’t need to have stealth jets and rather than paying heavily for one, the focus should be on getting a better 4.5 generation or fourth generation fighter than Rafale, which brings quality as well as builds numbers.”
F-35 fighters still remain the most in-demand fighters on the face of the planet due to their stealth technology, however, even the US Air Force has been extremely impressed with F-15EX jets and recently placed an order with Boeing with the aim of supporting the F-35s.
“The F-15EX is the most advanced version of the F-15 ever built, due in large part to its digital backbone, its unmatched range, price and best-in-class payload capacity make the F-15EX an attractive choice for the U.S. Air Force.” said Lori Schneider, Boeing F-15EX program manager.
The expert concluded by saying that Rafales are excellent fighters, however, it looks unlikely for now that India would acquire more of them. Besides the F-15EX, India would be especially keen to explore the Russian Su-35 or 57 jets unless Washington puts the F-35s on table.
Penned By MANSIJ ASTHANA
eurasiantimes.com
No More Rafales! Why Indian Air Force Could Reject Second Batch Of Dassault Rafale Jets?
Published
2 hours ago
on
September 20, 2020
By
EurAsian Times Desk
As the Indian Air Force (IAF) looks to further bolster its aerial fleet after the successful acquisition of French Dassault Rafales, its proposed Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) 2.0 contract for the procurement of 114 additional fighters will look for suitors from the best fighters on the face of the planet.
With the newly procured Rafales providing a solid foundation for the IAF to look out for an equal or an even better fighter jet, two options loom around for India to bank on, which include additional Rafale jets from France or the new F-15EX.
Despite the addition of the 4.5 generation Rafales, IAF’s current strength stands at 31 squadrons against the sanctioned one of 42 squadrons and with the threats of neighbors – China and Pakistan lurking around each of its borders, here are a few reasons that IAF experts believe why India could opt for F-15EX over additional Rafale jets.
SIZE, FRAME, SPEED AND RANGE
The most advanced version of the McDonnell Douglas F-15 Eagle twin-engine, all-weather tactical fighter jet, the F-15EX uses the frame of the classic F-15 and bears a resemblance to the Su-30 MKI in terms of its size.
Due to its size, the F-15EX fulfills a variety of roles like air superiority, interceptor, deep penetration strikes against enemy infrastructure, strategic bombing, and ground attack.
F-15EX has a combat range of 1,100 miles as compared to the 670 miles range offered by the F-35s. Moreover, the F-15EX has a speed of Mach 2.5 as compared to F-35s speed of Mach 1.6 and can accommodate heavy radars.
The F-35 however, due to its smaller stature, cannot accommodate heavy radars and fuel as compared to F-15EX.
A BETTER DOGFIGHTER
The F-35s are heavily loaded with stealth features and air-to-ground missions, which make it a less capable dogfighter than the F-15 EX in close quarters.
With Emerging threats from China and Pakistan, there is a need for an aircraft that can fly for longer hours, is heavily equipped with weapons systems, and is big enough to carry substantial fuel tanks, so that they do not have to return to the airbase for refueling.
F-15EX is just the fighter, with its predecessors already battle-tested in the middle-east and with their ability to strike deep into enemy terrority with the capability of carrying nuclear weapons makes them invincible. Even the US Air Force is looking to supplement their stealth F-35s jets with F-15EX for deep strike capabilities.
MORE WEAPONS
The F-15EX can carry twenty-two air-to-air missiles and other heavy weapons, including ASAT, JASSM-ER, GBU-28 Bunker Buster laser-guided bomb, hypersonic cruise missiles, and AGM-84H SLAM ER, which are far more than an F-35’s payload capacity.
The F-15EX’s massive weapon loadout makes it a beast in any “Beyond Visual Range” (BVR) fight and not only that, it carries more firepower than any other fighter jet currently deployed under the US Air Force.
A MULTIROLE FIGHTER
While an F-35 fighter is a proven valuable combat aircraft and serves as their most advanced jet in their inventory, the F-15EX serves a different role under the US Air Force. It can be used for enforcing no-fly zones, homeland defense, or delivering stand-off munitions in fights with no or limited air defenses.
F-15EX, being a heavy fighter is deployed for strategic effect due to their potent deterrent capability, as compared to their smaller cousin F-35, which has a much-restricted role. Therefore, it becomes easier for enemy aircraft or defense systems to engage against the smaller F-35s than be deployed against the more potent F-15EX.
Moreover, the F-35s’ combat role is further restricted due to its inability to carry more than eight missiles, while also not being able to carry heavy bombs to destroy strategic targets and enemy infrastructure.
The F-35 is an aircraft used for tactical operations and due to its limited role has less air supremacy than the F-15EX, which is an airspace dominance fighter. This means that the F-15EX can perform a variety of roles including cross border strikes, engaging in proximity fights with enemy fighter aircraft, destroying enemy ships while keeping the aircraft carriers at a safe distance.
SUITABILITY IN LADAKH REGION
With reports of the IAF deploying Su-30s, MKI, Jaguar, Mirage 2000 fighters and potentially the Rafales in the Ladakh region against the Chinese, the addition of the F-15EX could be a game-changer due to the fighter’s heavy engine capacities making it better suited to operability in high altitude regions.
It is predicted that there may come a time, when stealth drones carrying out the roles and functions of an F-35 fighter may end up replacing the jet. However, the possibility of that applying to a heavyweight fighter like the F-15EX is highly unlikely.
OPEN MISSION SYSTEMS ARCHITECTURE (OMS)
Developed by American aerospace juggernauts Boeing, the two-seat fighter overshadows its predecessor F-15s because of its Open Mission Systems (OMS) architecture.
According to Boeing, “The most significant difference between the F-15EX and legacy F-15s lies in its Open Mission Systems (OMS) architecture. The OMS architecture will enable the rapid insertion of the latest aircraft technologies.”
WHAT DO THE EXPERTS SAY?
Dr. Will Roper, Assistant Secretary of the Air Force for Acquisition, Technology, and Logistics, while praising the digital capabilities of the latest addition to the F-15 fighter family, says,
“The F-15EX’s digital backbone, open mission systems, and generous payload capacity fit well with our vision for future net-enabled warfare, cotinually upgrading systems, and how they share data across the Joint Force, is critical for defeating advanced threats. F-15EX is designed to evolve from day one.”
According to a serving Group Captain in the Indian Air Force who did not wish to be named, there is a need for India to get its hands on fighters apart from the Rafales and F-15EX falls into it.
“India doesn’t need to go out for Rafales again because we already have three dozens of them, at least by the time all our delivered. We need to look for a different fighter, which offers something extra, something on the lines of an F-35, Su-57 or the new F-15 (F-15EX) jets. The main idea was to have a superior air fleet which was settled with the French deal, now it is about adding extra quality to the ranks while also taking care of the quantity required by our forces.”
A Defence Expert, Rohit Thakur, who also manages an Indian Defence Website has labeled India’s plan as a welcome call to the F-15EX, with the F-15EX reported to have already been running for the earlier Indian Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) contract.
“IAF had already looked at the latest F-15 as an option for its air fleet and while it will also compete with the F-35s, India at the moment doesn’t need to have stealth jets and rather than paying heavily for one, the focus should be on getting a better 4.5 generation or fourth generation fighter than Rafale, which brings quality as well as builds numbers.”
F-35 fighters still remain the most in-demand fighters on the face of the planet due to their stealth technology, however, even the US Air Force has been extremely impressed with F-15EX jets and recently placed an order with Boeing with the aim of supporting the F-35s.
“The F-15EX is the most advanced version of the F-15 ever built, due in large part to its digital backbone, its unmatched range, price and best-in-class payload capacity make the F-15EX an attractive choice for the U.S. Air Force.” said Lori Schneider, Boeing F-15EX program manager.
The expert concluded by saying that Rafales are excellent fighters, however, it looks unlikely for now that India would acquire more of them. Besides the F-15EX, India would be especially keen to explore the Russian Su-35 or 57 jets unless Washington puts the F-35s on table.
Penned By MANSIJ ASTHANA
No More Rafales! Why Indian Air Force Could Reject Second Batch Of Dassault Rafale Jets?
As the Indian Air Force (IAF) looks to further bolster its aerial fleet after the successful acquisition of French Dassault Rafales, its proposed Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) 2.0 contract for the procurement of 114 additional fighters will look for suitors from the best fighters on...
eurasiantimes.com
So our data link is having better data transmission rate & security features?
LOL no it doesn't.
In actual USAF services, the F-15 are restricted to Mach 1.5. Pilots are told not to try going faster than that. How strange, I wonder why...
Wonderful for you, dear, but the Rafale already does that and then some, plus it's a cheaper, lighter, more modern platform. Your open mission system is just you attempting to catch up with what the Rafale has offered since the F2 standard.
The F-15EX does not offer anything "extra" that the Rafale doesn't provide -- except extra costs, of course.
And the idea that 36 would be a sufficient number for the Indian Air Force is also absurd. We're not talking about the Belgian Air Force here. And the IAF has already paid for the infrastructure for 72 Rafales.
Going for the F-15 instead of the Rafale would be the stupidest move possible. The only interest is signaling America that India has now joined the ranks of its vassals, but merely buying F-15 will not be enough to satisfy Uncle Sam, you'll also have to cancel all the indigenous aircraft projects...
It's curious the argument is to convince that the F-15 EX is a better choice than the Rafale and all along the article the comparison is made with the F-35. It's easier to win when you have the wrong opponent.