MMRCA 2.0 - Updates and Discussions

What is your favorite for MMRCA 2.0 ?

  • F-35 Blk 4

    Votes: 29 12.4%
  • Rafale F4

    Votes: 184 79.0%
  • Eurofighter Typhoon T3

    Votes: 3 1.3%
  • Gripen E/F

    Votes: 6 2.6%
  • F-16 B70

    Votes: 1 0.4%
  • F-18 SH

    Votes: 10 4.3%
  • F-15EX

    Votes: 8 3.4%
  • Mig-35

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    233
I fear mmrca2 is dead, so as further Rafale to IAF too. Mirage saga 2 is cooking now, despite being the superior aircraft IAF didn't ordered further mirages, instead went for sh!t like mig29. Probably this time villian will be Tejas.
It would be a pity for India, but for Dassault it's very bearable. Its order book is full for the next 10 years, even if it is capable of increasing production further if new customers come on board, and in 10 years it is capable of doubling orders again, because even France will need to replace the older Rafales and complete the Navy's flotillas.
 
I fear mmrca2 is dead, so as further Rafale to IAF too. Mirage saga 2 is cooking now, despite being the superior aircraft IAF didn't ordered further mirages, instead went for sh!t like mig29. Probably this time villian will be Tejas
While Mirage-2000 was the superstar of Operation Safed Sagar, Mig-29 was the unsung hero as it kept PAF F-16s away because of its R-77 BVR. It's well documented. Current Mig-29 UPG. is no joke either.

Tejas is not analogue of Rafale. Both requirements are different.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sathya
While Mirage-2000 was the superstar of Operation Safed Sagar, Mig-29 was the unsung hero as it kept PAF F-16s away because of its R-77 BVR. It's well documented. Current Mig-29 UPG. is no joke either.

Tejas is not analogue of Rafale. Both requirements are different.
I will count it as,PAF was having inferior F16 without any credible BVR capibilies, I will not count it as success without firing the shot.

Now,I wanna ask one thing. In 2019,PAF fired amram at mki at dmax range, preventing mki from engaging the attack formation. Did you accept that PAF f16 is an unsung hero during that engagement?
 
While Mirage-2000 was the superstar of Operation Safed Sagar, Mig-29 was the unsung hero as it kept PAF F-16s away because of its R-77 BVR. It's well documented. Current Mig-29 UPG. is no joke either.

Tejas is not analogue of Rafale. Both requirements are different.

I know that Rafale and Tejas are in entirely different categories.
But if Tejas getting orders in place of Rafale, is it success or failure for us?


Btw Modi going to visit France after US, we ll see what we get there..

Rafale M my guess.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rajput Lion
I will count it as,PAF was having inferior F16 without any credible BVR capibilies, I will not count it as success without firing the shot.

Now,I wanna ask one thing. In 2019,PAF fired amram at mki at dmax range, preventing mki from engaging the attack formation. Did you accept that PAF f16 is an unsung hero during that engagement?





I accept PAF as an oversung failure cause 8 F-16s, despite lobbing multiple AIM-120C5s, failed to kill IAF's crown jewel. As per the above tweets, the dash of MKI took PAF by surprise and the first group was just 25-30kms away from Avenger 1 when the second group fired those AMRAAMs. MKIs took the risk of breaching the 'minimum abort range'(MAR), i.e., almost entering the NEZ of AIM-120C5 and yet defeated them. Absolutely unbelievable stuff by our Flanker jocks.

All F-16s tucked their tail and ran like cowards post that MKI daring dash, turning swift retort into swift retreat.

Try hard next time.
 
I know that Rafale and Tejas are in entirely different categories.
But if Tejas getting orders in place of Rafale, is it success or failure for us?
IAF has categorically said that neither Su-30MKI(HCA) or Tejas(LCA) are substitutes for MRFA/Rafale.

Personally, I love Tejas. And I think we should order more(at least 50) MK1As over and above the 73 ordered. But Rafale is also required to defeat PLAAF and PLA. We should at least have minimum 120 Rafales in our Air Force. Both are important. Tejas for Mig-21 replacement and to develop our aviation MIC and Rafale for the novel capabilities it brings forth. It is hard for me to pick just one.
Btw Modi going to visit France after US, we ll see what we get there..

Rafale M my guess.
Hopefully yes.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Valhalla and Sathya
Screenshot 2023-06-20 at 5.51.53 AM.png
 
I know that Rafale and Tejas are in entirely different categories.
But if Tejas getting orders in place of Rafale, is it success or failure for us?


Btw Modi going to visit France after US, we ll see what we get there..

Rafale M my guess.
Tejas isn't getting orders "in place of" Rafale, as you're suggesting.
 
That means only 78kms for MICA-NG(IR)?! Seems too low for a dual-pulse missile, IMO.
More or less (probably more) :
The exact range of a missile is never known, because it depends of the respective height, speed, heading of the fighter and its prey, agility of the prey (and so one).
But in the 90's a Taiwanese M2000 made a kill on a flying target at 67 km. 67km + 30% = 87km.
And it was a 90's made MICA. Maybe some improvements were made since on the legacy missile.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rajput Lion
More or less (probably more) :
The exact range of a missile is never known, because it depends of the respective height, speed, heading of the fighter and its prey, agility of the prey (and so one).
But in the 90's a Taiwanese M2000 made a kill on a flying target at 67 km. 67km + 30% = 87km.
And it was a 90's made MICA. Maybe some improvements were made since on the legacy missile.
MICA-RF has more range than MICA-IR because of more aerodynamic nose cone. My guess would be around(taking 30% improvement in range) 110 kms for RF-NG and at least 90-100kms for IR-NG. Though final range could be more.

Case in point is VL MICA has 20kms range while VL MICA-NG has close to 40. That's almost double the range. The same calculation should apply to the air launched versions as well(IMHO).
 
Case in point is VL MICA has 20kms range while VL MICA-NG has close to 40. That's almost double the range. The same calculation should apply to the air launched versions as well(IMHO).
No, the same calculation can't be made on pure air to air trajectory and ground to air one. The higher the altitude of the launcher is, the more different the calculations are.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rajput Lion
Le Rafale entre dans l'ère du «combat collaboratif»

The Rafale enters the era of "collaborative combat

By Véronique Guillermard Published on 19/06/2023 at 11:00, updated on 19/06/2023 at 11:10

The flagship of the French air force and naval air arm, the Rafale, is in the limelight at the Paris Air Show, where it will be taking part in flight demonstrations this week. The French fighter jet is coming to the show after an exceptional year in 2022, marked by the signing of 92 orders, all for export. A record year marked by the entry into force, in 2022, of the contract for 80 Rafales signed by the United Arab Emirates, at the end of 2021. And the confirmation by Indonesia of the purchase of six Rafales, a first instalment of the 42 combat aircraft ordered, as well as a contract signed by Greece for a further six Rafales.

The Rafale's international career is far from over. Its manufacturer, Dassault Aviation*, is expecting Indonesia to confirm two further tranches of 18 Rafales each this year, and is also hoping to sign new contracts with India. Observers believe that the visit of Narendra Modi, the Indian Prime Minister, who was Emmanuel Macron's guest at the 14 July parade, could provide the backdrop for an announcement along these lines.

Resumption of Rafale deliveries to France

In France, 2023 marks the resumption of Rafale deliveries (12) after a four-year interruption. It also marks the activation of Rafale Tranche V, an order for 42 aircraft placed by the French Ministry of Defence. The aim is to "go all out for the Rafale and maintain this exceptional aircraft at the highest level in the world", as Emmanuel Macron put it in his 2023 New Year's address to the armed forces.

The Rafale has been a "combat proven" aircraft for many years, and since the outbreak of war in Ukraine in February 2022 it has been making a name for itself as part of the drive to reassure Europe's eastern flank. And it is getting a new version. Last March, the programme entered a new phase. The French Defence Procurement Agency (DGA) approved the new F4 standard for the French fighter. This standard should bring the aircraft into the era of "collaborative combat".

In 2019, Florence Parly, then Minister for the Armed Forces, signed a €1.9 billion contract for the development of the F4 standard, to enable the Rafale to make "a genuine technological, industrial and strategic leap forward". With the F4 standard, the aircraft enters "the data era", with enhanced connectivity. "The first building block of the F4 standard, the F4.1 standard, includes collaborative air combat capabilities, the integration of the 1000 kg AASM weapon and a strengthening of the aircraft against cyber threats", summarises the Ministry of Defence.

Tests from the Charles-de-Gaulle aircraft carrier

Already ordered by the United Arab Emirates, the fourth-generation Rafale will optimise its effectiveness in networked combat thanks to new satellite links, a new secure communications server and a new-generation software-defined radio. This will enable it to communicate within a cyber-protected bubble with all players in theatres of operations, from military satellites to connected vehicles (Griffon and Jaguar armoured vehicles in particular) on the ground, via command centres. And all within the framework of Franco-French operations or in coalition with friendly countries.

Numerous trials of the F4 standard have been carried out by the armed forces and the DGA over the last two years. At the beginning of March, operational trials under real conditions were launched, with the first flight on board the Charles-de-Gaulle aircraft carrier. Some forty flights were carried out, enabling this new standard to be evaluated under complex conditions of use, by confronting the Rafale with radar or GPS jamming. "These complex evaluations, involving interaction with operational units, are fully in line with the French Navy's desire to prepare for high-intensity conflicts and the threats present in today's theatres," stresses the French Navy.

All the F3R-standard Rafales of the French Air Force and Navy will gradually be upgraded to the F4 standard. This will not be the last, as there are plans to develop an F5 standard, with adaptation to new-generation missiles, as part of the new 2024-2030 military programming law.