Alumina production is surplus, and now the new alumina production plant is losing money, and China's bauxite mainly comes from Africa.And producing alumina and electrolytic aluminum requires a lot of cheap electricity, which India does not have
MMRCA 2.0 - Updates and Discussions
- Thread starter Picdelamirand-oil
- Start date
Its not about India making money out of new development. Indian media is like our politicians & minister, they will sell you gold in dreams. My point is, with the new restrictions imposed by china how US, NATO gonna produce AESA radars?
China has only implemented export controls, not bans on exports. As a response to the United States' long-term technological oppression, there are very few gallium nitride applications in the military field, and the most important ones are in the civilian field, such as current mobile phone chargers
Very short take off.... 6 seconds! ==> 175 m Less than carrier length (and without jump ski)
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Ranking of countries by number of Rafales ordered:
- France: 234 - 24 = 210
- UAE: 80
- India: 62
- Egypt: 55
- Indonesia: 42
- Qatar: 36
- Greece: 24
- Croatia: 12
TOTAL: 521
Choosing wrong partners have consequences.
Defence Acquisition Council approves the acquisition of 26 Rafale-M & 3 additional Scorpene class Submarines for the Indian Navy.
Dassault Aviation’s Rafale joint venture with Anil Ambani likely to be dissolved
NEW DELHI: The Indo-French joint venture (JV) between Dassault Aviation and Anil Ambani-owned Reliance Aerostructure Ltd is likely to be dissolved as the French
www.google.com
Either a negotation tactic or Dassault just getting rid of the hot potato.
If it's the latter, it will give Congress a reason to attack the BJP again.
Will Germany's refusal to deliver Typhoons to Saudi Arabia open up opportunities for the Rafale?
13 July 2023
On 6 July, we reported on the German Greens' opposition to Germany resuming arms deliveries to Saudi Arabia, when Riyadh intended to exercise the option for 48 additional Typhoon fighter jets to replace part of its ageing Tornado fleet.
Unsurprisingly, Chancellor Olaf Scholz seems to have preferred to preserve his coalition government over the prospect of exporting European fighter jets, since he announced that Germany's refusal to supply lethal weapons to Riyadh would remain in force until the war in Yemen was over.
Although a ceasefire agreement was signed at the end of May between the Yemeni authorities and their Saudi and Emirati allies, on the one hand, and the Tehran-backed Houthi rebels, on the other, this is not, strictly speaking, an agreement marking the end of the conflict, according to Berlin.
Interestingly, Olaf Scholz's SPD and its Green allies have agreed to authorise the sale of 6 A400M transport aircraft to the United Arab Emirates. Berlin's aim was probably to allay the concerns of Paris and Madrid following the arbitration over the Typhoon, even though the 3 countries are collaborating on the SCAF programme, as well as on the A400M (assembled in Spain), while relying on the fact that, as a transport aircraft, it is not strictly speaking an offensive weapons system, unlike the Typhoon.
The prospect of selling an additional 48 Eurofighter Typhoons to Saudi Arabia is several years away, due to opposition from the SPD and the German Greens.
It should be remembered that Germany is in no way demonstrating specific behaviour by refusing to supply arms, even co-produced arms, to a country for its own reasons. It should be remembered, for example, that France recently opposed the participation of the Franco-Italian Eurosam consortium in the Turkish programme to develop a medium-range anti-aircraft system, as well as the sale of Aster missiles to Ankara, despite Rome's insistence on the matter.
But the subtlety of Olaf Scholz's arbitration allowing the delivery of A400Ms to Abu Dhabi, while prohibiting the sale of Typhoons to Riyadh, could do much for Paris, which has been trying for several months to get back into the good graces of the Saudi authorities in terms of defence cooperation.
Indeed, there are several indirect reports of discussions between the two countries on the possibility of the Royal Saudi Air Force acquiring a fleet of Rafales as part of its modernisation drive.
These same echoes refer to a possible order for around a hundred French fighters, a sufficient number to undertake local production associated with a major transfer of technology, as was the case with India under the MRCA programme, which was ultimately aborted due to disagreements with the manufacturer selected by New Delhi.
The capabilities of the Rafale F5 unveiled by Armed Forces Minister Sébastien Lecornu as part of the 2024-2030 LPM make the French aircraft highly attractive, including to Saudi Arabia.
However, with the Typhoon option closed "at least until the end of the current term of office" according to Olaf Scholz, i.e. 2025, the Saudi authorities could indeed find the French alternative attractive, especially as a real dynamic is being undertaken on this subject in Paris, Given that Riyadh is now seeking to equip itself with aircraft that are free of American (and therefore veto-proof) and German technologies (ITAR Free), the Rafale is currently the only multi-purpose fighter to offer this in the West.
The ambitions set out in the Military Planning Law for the Rafale F5, such as the development of a combat drone derived from the Neuron, while leaving the door open to certain technological and industrial collaborations on the part of the operators of the French fighter, could also work in favour of the Dassault fighter in this dossier.
What's more, the two countries will now be in a better position to reach agreement on a subject as complex (and costly) as the local construction of around a hundred Rafales and the accompanying technology transfers, now that they have already signed a major agreement at the 2023 Paris Air Show to build Airbus Helicopters' H175 helicopters in the country from 2030 onwards.
Initially worth 25 billion Riyal, or €6 billion, the agreement provides for the construction of a production site for this 8-tonne class medium helicopter, capable of carrying up to 18 passengers at 270 km/h over a distance of almost 1,000 km, and will provide jobs for 8,500 local people.
Saudi Arabia and France have signed an agreement worth a minimum of €6 billion for the local production of Airbus Helicopters H175 medium helicopters.
The combination of these two events, at a time when there are very few options that are both operationally effective and meet Riyadh's expectations in terms of on-board technology, suggests that the Rafale's chances of gaining a foothold in Saudi Arabia are now very real, despite the difficult relations between President Macron and Mohammad bin Salman, the Crown Prince who effectively runs the country.
Finally, without being decisive, it should be remembered that Riyadh's main regional ally, the United Arab Emirates, has also chosen the Rafale to modernise its air force, which is undoubtedly an asset in the hands of the French negotiators, who will be able to highlight the significant interoperability between the two fighter fleets.
It remains to be seen how well-founded these speculations and rumours are, and whether the current favourable climate for Riyadh's choice of Rafale will be enough to overcome the serious difficulties that the two countries have encountered in their recent relations.
13 July 2023
On 6 July, we reported on the German Greens' opposition to Germany resuming arms deliveries to Saudi Arabia, when Riyadh intended to exercise the option for 48 additional Typhoon fighter jets to replace part of its ageing Tornado fleet.
Unsurprisingly, Chancellor Olaf Scholz seems to have preferred to preserve his coalition government over the prospect of exporting European fighter jets, since he announced that Germany's refusal to supply lethal weapons to Riyadh would remain in force until the war in Yemen was over.
Although a ceasefire agreement was signed at the end of May between the Yemeni authorities and their Saudi and Emirati allies, on the one hand, and the Tehran-backed Houthi rebels, on the other, this is not, strictly speaking, an agreement marking the end of the conflict, according to Berlin.
Interestingly, Olaf Scholz's SPD and its Green allies have agreed to authorise the sale of 6 A400M transport aircraft to the United Arab Emirates. Berlin's aim was probably to allay the concerns of Paris and Madrid following the arbitration over the Typhoon, even though the 3 countries are collaborating on the SCAF programme, as well as on the A400M (assembled in Spain), while relying on the fact that, as a transport aircraft, it is not strictly speaking an offensive weapons system, unlike the Typhoon.
The prospect of selling an additional 48 Eurofighter Typhoons to Saudi Arabia is several years away, due to opposition from the SPD and the German Greens.
It should be remembered that Germany is in no way demonstrating specific behaviour by refusing to supply arms, even co-produced arms, to a country for its own reasons. It should be remembered, for example, that France recently opposed the participation of the Franco-Italian Eurosam consortium in the Turkish programme to develop a medium-range anti-aircraft system, as well as the sale of Aster missiles to Ankara, despite Rome's insistence on the matter.
But the subtlety of Olaf Scholz's arbitration allowing the delivery of A400Ms to Abu Dhabi, while prohibiting the sale of Typhoons to Riyadh, could do much for Paris, which has been trying for several months to get back into the good graces of the Saudi authorities in terms of defence cooperation.
Indeed, there are several indirect reports of discussions between the two countries on the possibility of the Royal Saudi Air Force acquiring a fleet of Rafales as part of its modernisation drive.
These same echoes refer to a possible order for around a hundred French fighters, a sufficient number to undertake local production associated with a major transfer of technology, as was the case with India under the MRCA programme, which was ultimately aborted due to disagreements with the manufacturer selected by New Delhi.
The capabilities of the Rafale F5 unveiled by Armed Forces Minister Sébastien Lecornu as part of the 2024-2030 LPM make the French aircraft highly attractive, including to Saudi Arabia.
However, with the Typhoon option closed "at least until the end of the current term of office" according to Olaf Scholz, i.e. 2025, the Saudi authorities could indeed find the French alternative attractive, especially as a real dynamic is being undertaken on this subject in Paris, Given that Riyadh is now seeking to equip itself with aircraft that are free of American (and therefore veto-proof) and German technologies (ITAR Free), the Rafale is currently the only multi-purpose fighter to offer this in the West.
The ambitions set out in the Military Planning Law for the Rafale F5, such as the development of a combat drone derived from the Neuron, while leaving the door open to certain technological and industrial collaborations on the part of the operators of the French fighter, could also work in favour of the Dassault fighter in this dossier.
What's more, the two countries will now be in a better position to reach agreement on a subject as complex (and costly) as the local construction of around a hundred Rafales and the accompanying technology transfers, now that they have already signed a major agreement at the 2023 Paris Air Show to build Airbus Helicopters' H175 helicopters in the country from 2030 onwards.
Initially worth 25 billion Riyal, or €6 billion, the agreement provides for the construction of a production site for this 8-tonne class medium helicopter, capable of carrying up to 18 passengers at 270 km/h over a distance of almost 1,000 km, and will provide jobs for 8,500 local people.
Saudi Arabia and France have signed an agreement worth a minimum of €6 billion for the local production of Airbus Helicopters H175 medium helicopters.
The combination of these two events, at a time when there are very few options that are both operationally effective and meet Riyadh's expectations in terms of on-board technology, suggests that the Rafale's chances of gaining a foothold in Saudi Arabia are now very real, despite the difficult relations between President Macron and Mohammad bin Salman, the Crown Prince who effectively runs the country.
Finally, without being decisive, it should be remembered that Riyadh's main regional ally, the United Arab Emirates, has also chosen the Rafale to modernise its air force, which is undoubtedly an asset in the hands of the French negotiators, who will be able to highlight the significant interoperability between the two fighter fleets.
It remains to be seen how well-founded these speculations and rumours are, and whether the current favourable climate for Riyadh's choice of Rafale will be enough to overcome the serious difficulties that the two countries have encountered in their recent relations.
Dassault Aviation working on the successor to the Neuron drone
In addition to the launch of a future version of the Rafale, the 2024-2030 Military Planning Law (LPM) provides for the development of a drone to accompany the multi-role fighter aircraft.
In addition to the launch of a future version of the Rafale, the 2024-2030 Military Planning Law (LPM) provides for the development of a drone to accompany the multi-role fighter aircraft.
Finally!
We wasted so much time trying to build partnerships with obstreperous neighbors.
Rafale: Τελικά μήπως τα γαλλικά μαχητικά είναι μονόδρομος για την Ελλάδα – Το πρόβλημα παραγωγής των F-35
Rafale: Is the French fighter a one-way street for Greece - The F-35 production problem
Is the Rafale the future of the Greek Air Force?
Lockheed Martin, the main contractor and manufacturer of the fifth-generation F-35 fighter, is preparing for a major financial blow in 2023.
Finally, are French fighters a one-way street for Greece as the F-35 production problem does not seem to be easily overcome?
"Production problems have led to a shortfall of about 50 aircraft, which is expected to cost the company hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue," notes bulgarianmilitary.com.
It should be noted that the annual production of the F-35 is 48 aircraft.
China's F-35 and J-20 are the only two fighters of their generation currently being produced and deployed at squadron level.
Originally, the first TR-3 F-35s were to enter service in April, but unforeseen obstacles pushed that date back to December.
It should be noted that Christopher Miller, the last Secretary of Defense under the Trump administration, described the F-35 as a "monster" while John McCain, former Chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, called it "a textbook example."
Bad reviews of the F-35 focus on the aircraft's poor reliability and high operating costs.
The National Defence Commission of the National Assembly of South Korea revealed in October 2022 that the country's F-35s had suffered 234 defects in 18 months from January 2021 to June 2022. These included 172 incidents that rendered the aircraft inoperable and 62 instances where specific missions could not be performed.
Rafale: Is the French fighter finally a one-way street for Greece?
At the same time, Greece has Rafale fighters, which will soon evolve into a new generation of F5 fighters.
Today, the French say, "several present and future users (of French weapons) can see in the development of the Rafale F5, an opportunity both operational and industrial to increase their military capabilities and to develop their own industrial defence base."
Indeed, the French underline that Greece "is probably an excellent candidate to participate in the co-development of the Rafale F5" as it "has an active aeronautical industry, particularly around the F-16".
Could it be that the Rafale is the... future of the Greek Air Force after all, and not just the present?
Rafale: Is the French fighter a one-way street for Greece - The F-35 production problem
Is the Rafale the future of the Greek Air Force?
Lockheed Martin, the main contractor and manufacturer of the fifth-generation F-35 fighter, is preparing for a major financial blow in 2023.
Finally, are French fighters a one-way street for Greece as the F-35 production problem does not seem to be easily overcome?
"Production problems have led to a shortfall of about 50 aircraft, which is expected to cost the company hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue," notes bulgarianmilitary.com.
It should be noted that the annual production of the F-35 is 48 aircraft.
China's F-35 and J-20 are the only two fighters of their generation currently being produced and deployed at squadron level.
Originally, the first TR-3 F-35s were to enter service in April, but unforeseen obstacles pushed that date back to December.
It should be noted that Christopher Miller, the last Secretary of Defense under the Trump administration, described the F-35 as a "monster" while John McCain, former Chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, called it "a textbook example."
Bad reviews of the F-35 focus on the aircraft's poor reliability and high operating costs.
The National Defence Commission of the National Assembly of South Korea revealed in October 2022 that the country's F-35s had suffered 234 defects in 18 months from January 2021 to June 2022. These included 172 incidents that rendered the aircraft inoperable and 62 instances where specific missions could not be performed.
Rafale: Is the French fighter finally a one-way street for Greece?
At the same time, Greece has Rafale fighters, which will soon evolve into a new generation of F5 fighters.
Today, the French say, "several present and future users (of French weapons) can see in the development of the Rafale F5, an opportunity both operational and industrial to increase their military capabilities and to develop their own industrial defence base."
Indeed, the French underline that Greece "is probably an excellent candidate to participate in the co-development of the Rafale F5" as it "has an active aeronautical industry, particularly around the F-16".
Could it be that the Rafale is the... future of the Greek Air Force after all, and not just the present?
I've always said that once an air force has experienced the Rafale, it doesn't want anything else. That's what happened with Egypt, which sent back its SU-35s. It's the same for the IAF and it will be the same for the IN, and now there are signs that Greece is moving in the same direction.
Qatar is the only exception, but in its case it's a political move to win as many friends as possible.
Qatar is the only exception, but in its case it's a political move to win as many friends as possible.
Not doubting the capabilities of Rafale but Egypt refused Su-35S because of US pressure, IMO(same as Indonesia).
Qatar : vers une nouvelle commande de Rafale pour Dassault Aviation
Qatar: towards a new Rafale order for Dassault Aviation
Following the 36 Rafales currently in service with the Qatari air force, Doha is now looking to acquire a further 24 fighter jets by 2024/2025. Qatar is also discussing with Dassault Aviation the upgrading of its 36 Rafales already delivered to the F4 standard.
Michel Cabirol 25 Jul 2023, 6:00
The Rafale remains devilishly attractive. For countries that do not yet have one (Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Serbia, Colombia, etc.) and for others that use it regularly. This is the case of Qatar, which could order a new batch of Rafales (24 aircraft) by 2024 or, more likely, 2025, according to our information. A wish that was certainly mentioned during the Minister of Defence's visit to Doha on 17 July, but not made official. On that occasion, Sébastien Lecornu met the Emir of Qatar, Sheikh Tamim bin Hamad Al Thani. The discussions focused on "strengthening the Franco-Qatari strategic partnership, based on diplomatic, operational and industrial cooperation", explained the Ministry of Defence in a press release published on Friday.
Following the meeting, the Minister tweeted: "The defence relationship between France and Qatar is solid. With Emir @TamimBinHamad, the same vision of a strategic partnership based on operational and industrial cooperation".
Sébastien Lecornu also met the Prime Minister and Minister of Foreign Affairs, Mohammed ben Abderrahmane Al-Thani, and his defence counterpart. With Khalid ben Mohammed Al-Attiyah, he had a "dense discussion" at the Dukhan air base, which will burn the 36 Rafales delivered by Dassault Aviation between 2019 and 2022, according to the Armed Forces Minister's tweet. The two ministers discussed the development of operational interaction between the armies of the two countries and new projects to boost cooperation in terms of capabilities, according to the ministry.
Towards an "upgrade" of Qatar's 36 Rafale fighters
The Qatari air force already has 36 Rafales, all delivered since 2022. Doha would also like to upgrade these Rafales to the F4 standard. In 2019, former French Defence Minister Florence Parly decided to invest €1.9 billion in upgrading the French fighter jet to the F4 standard. This standard has already been chosen by the United Arab Emirates, which signed a contract in December 2021 for 80 Rafale F4s to be delivered between 2027 and 2030.
At the end of the year, Dassault Aviation expects to sign the tranche 5 contract for 42 Rafale 4.1s (30 initially planned + 12 to replace aircraft sold to Croatia). The F4 standard will be the new standard for the French armed forces (air force and navy).
Discussions underway for the VBCI
Discussions are also progressing well between Qatar and France on the possible sale of Nexter's armoured vehicle. While the failure of the VBCI seemed to have been confirmed more than three years ago, Qatar has finally put the 28-tonne armoured vehicle manufactured by Nexter back in the saddle, as revealed in March by La Tribune. Several milestones have been reached in recent weeks. Nexter CEO Nicolas Chamussy remains very involved in the project and is working hard to secure the VBCI's first export contract. The armoured vehicle manufacturer is trying to capitalise on the new-found peace between Doha and Paris.
Nexter recently sent a heavyweight to Doha to convince the Qataris. The subsidiary of the Franco-German group KNDS is offering a version very similar to the French one, with a CTA 40 turret and equipped with MBDA MMP missiles and a 40mm gun from CTAI, a 50/50 subsidiary of Nexter Systems and BAE Systems.
Warming relations between Paris and Doha
The warming of relations between France and Qatar took concrete form with the visit of the Emir of Qatar, Sheikh Tamim bin Hamad Al Thani, to Paris. After watching Paris-Saint-Germain's unfortunate defeat by Bayern Munich in the Champions League Round of 16 on 14 February, the Emir was received by Emmanuel Macron at the Élysée Palace the following day. The two heads of state, who welcomed the ongoing deepening of the strategic partnership between France and Qatar, agreed to "step up work to deepen the bilateral relationship, in line with the 2030 visions of France and Qatar, in the economic and investment fields, as well as in defence and security".
France's efforts to help Qatar organise a secure football World Cup (from 20 November to 18 December 2022) have done much to renew the threads of a distended relationship between the two countries. In fact, Paris has done a great deal to help Qatar: the Ministries of the Armed Forces and the Interior have provided Doha with support in securing this major event (terrorist threats, neutralising explosives, hooliganism, crowd movements, cyber attacks, etc.). At Qatar's request, the French armed forces have supported the Qatari army in this mission.
Qatar: towards a new Rafale order for Dassault Aviation
Following the 36 Rafales currently in service with the Qatari air force, Doha is now looking to acquire a further 24 fighter jets by 2024/2025. Qatar is also discussing with Dassault Aviation the upgrading of its 36 Rafales already delivered to the F4 standard.
Michel Cabirol 25 Jul 2023, 6:00
The Rafale remains devilishly attractive. For countries that do not yet have one (Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Serbia, Colombia, etc.) and for others that use it regularly. This is the case of Qatar, which could order a new batch of Rafales (24 aircraft) by 2024 or, more likely, 2025, according to our information. A wish that was certainly mentioned during the Minister of Defence's visit to Doha on 17 July, but not made official. On that occasion, Sébastien Lecornu met the Emir of Qatar, Sheikh Tamim bin Hamad Al Thani. The discussions focused on "strengthening the Franco-Qatari strategic partnership, based on diplomatic, operational and industrial cooperation", explained the Ministry of Defence in a press release published on Friday.
Following the meeting, the Minister tweeted: "The defence relationship between France and Qatar is solid. With Emir @TamimBinHamad, the same vision of a strategic partnership based on operational and industrial cooperation".
Sébastien Lecornu also met the Prime Minister and Minister of Foreign Affairs, Mohammed ben Abderrahmane Al-Thani, and his defence counterpart. With Khalid ben Mohammed Al-Attiyah, he had a "dense discussion" at the Dukhan air base, which will burn the 36 Rafales delivered by Dassault Aviation between 2019 and 2022, according to the Armed Forces Minister's tweet. The two ministers discussed the development of operational interaction between the armies of the two countries and new projects to boost cooperation in terms of capabilities, according to the ministry.
Towards an "upgrade" of Qatar's 36 Rafale fighters
The Qatari air force already has 36 Rafales, all delivered since 2022. Doha would also like to upgrade these Rafales to the F4 standard. In 2019, former French Defence Minister Florence Parly decided to invest €1.9 billion in upgrading the French fighter jet to the F4 standard. This standard has already been chosen by the United Arab Emirates, which signed a contract in December 2021 for 80 Rafale F4s to be delivered between 2027 and 2030.
At the end of the year, Dassault Aviation expects to sign the tranche 5 contract for 42 Rafale 4.1s (30 initially planned + 12 to replace aircraft sold to Croatia). The F4 standard will be the new standard for the French armed forces (air force and navy).
Discussions underway for the VBCI
Discussions are also progressing well between Qatar and France on the possible sale of Nexter's armoured vehicle. While the failure of the VBCI seemed to have been confirmed more than three years ago, Qatar has finally put the 28-tonne armoured vehicle manufactured by Nexter back in the saddle, as revealed in March by La Tribune. Several milestones have been reached in recent weeks. Nexter CEO Nicolas Chamussy remains very involved in the project and is working hard to secure the VBCI's first export contract. The armoured vehicle manufacturer is trying to capitalise on the new-found peace between Doha and Paris.
Nexter recently sent a heavyweight to Doha to convince the Qataris. The subsidiary of the Franco-German group KNDS is offering a version very similar to the French one, with a CTA 40 turret and equipped with MBDA MMP missiles and a 40mm gun from CTAI, a 50/50 subsidiary of Nexter Systems and BAE Systems.
Warming relations between Paris and Doha
The warming of relations between France and Qatar took concrete form with the visit of the Emir of Qatar, Sheikh Tamim bin Hamad Al Thani, to Paris. After watching Paris-Saint-Germain's unfortunate defeat by Bayern Munich in the Champions League Round of 16 on 14 February, the Emir was received by Emmanuel Macron at the Élysée Palace the following day. The two heads of state, who welcomed the ongoing deepening of the strategic partnership between France and Qatar, agreed to "step up work to deepen the bilateral relationship, in line with the 2030 visions of France and Qatar, in the economic and investment fields, as well as in defence and security".
France's efforts to help Qatar organise a secure football World Cup (from 20 November to 18 December 2022) have done much to renew the threads of a distended relationship between the two countries. In fact, Paris has done a great deal to help Qatar: the Ministries of the Armed Forces and the Interior have provided Doha with support in securing this major event (terrorist threats, neutralising explosives, hooliganism, crowd movements, cyber attacks, etc.). At Qatar's request, the French armed forces have supported the Qatari army in this mission.
It will be interesting to see what Indonesia thinks about both Rafale and IFX.
They may wait for the F5 instead, while upgrading the current lot to F4. It's possible for UAE to follow suit as well.
And wasn't there news about the Saudis wanting 100-200 Rafales last year?
Lots of good news for the Rafale in Asia.
With the cancellation of Thailand's F-35s, a Rafale contract is possible here as well. They have nearly 80 jets up for replacement, F5s and F-16s.