In general I prefer the original to the copy.
Can you elaborate on that?
MMRCA 2.0 - Updates and Discussions
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Can you elaborate on that?
IAF to select 110 fighters after multi-role combat aircraft results
Strapped with an ageing and depleting fighter fleet, IAF had floated a Request for Information (RFI) – a global tender – to buy 110 fighters.
INDIA Updated: Nov 26, 2018 08:32 IST
The process to select 110 fighters for the Indian Air Force (IAF) will draw upon the field evaluation results of the now-cancelled Medium Muti-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) purchase deal to shorten and hasten the process, senior officials in the ministry of defence who aren’t authorised to speak to the media said.
In 2015, the Narendra Modi-led National Democratic Alliance (NDA) government at the Centre scrapped the US$ 20 billion (approx INR 140 billion) MMRCA project. Instead, it opted to buy 36 Rafale aircraft from French defence manufacturing giant Dassault through a government-to-government contract with France. The ~58,000 crore deal has triggered a major political controversy, with the Opposition alleging corruption and wrongdoing in the purchase of the aircraft which the government has vehemently denied.
Strapped with an ageing and depleting fighter fleet, IAF had floated a Request for Information (RFI) – a global tender – to buy 110 fighters. Of the 110 jets, around 85% will have to be built in India under the ‘Make in India’ programme in partnership with an Indian manufacturer under the Strategic Partnership (SP) route.
“What was tested earlier and proved will not be put to test again,” the officer said. “When we evaluate fighters now, only new additions, systems of the aircraft, and modifications made to the aircraft, if any, will be put to test. We have decided not to go through the entire process again. This will substantially cut down the time,” the first defence ministry officer said.
What may come as a relief to IAF is that all six global manufacturers who have responded to the RFI – Lockheed Martin F-16 and SAAB Gripen with single-engine fighters, and Boeing F-18, Dassault Rafale, Eurofighter Typhoon and United Aircraft Corporation MiG-35 with twin-engine fighters – were also contenders for the previous MMRCA deal.
The air force is now in the process of finalising the Air Staff Qualitative Requirements (ASQR) – a list of must-have capabilities and parameters – for the aircraft. “We are ensuring that ASQR takes into account the disruptive and transformative technologies that are likely to be a reality in the coming decades. The ASQR will be complete in the next few weeks,” a second official involved in the acquisition process said.
“We hope to get a nod from the ministry (of defence) by March 2019,” the officer added.
With a new government expected to be sworn in next May, the IAF is keen to complete as much of the process as possible before that.
“We hope to start the process of field evaluation by next June and complete it as early as possible, so that commercial negotiation can start,” the second officer said.
Commercial negotiations are precurser to signing a contract.
The IAF spokesperson was not available for comment. Experts and former IAF test pilots who were involved in the acquisition of aircraft, however, said “using previous test results” is practical but advised caution at the same time.
“It is not necessary to test proven points in the QSR again; all previous points on which a platform was found to be non-complaint should be checked,” Air Marshal RK Sharma (retd), former Vice Chief of IAF and test pilot, said.
“Importantly, when checking fresh add-ons, modifications to a platform the IAF must ensure is that they check all parameters that the modification will affect,” he said
“The process that follows the selection of the aircraft like commercial negotiations, etc, should also be completed quickly,” he said.
IAF to select 110 fighters after multi-role combat aircraft results
Strapped with an ageing and depleting fighter fleet, IAF had floated a Request for Information (RFI) – a global tender – to buy 110 fighters.
INDIA Updated: Nov 26, 2018 08:32 IST
The process to select 110 fighters for the Indian Air Force (IAF) will draw upon the field evaluation results of the now-cancelled Medium Muti-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) purchase deal to shorten and hasten the process, senior officials in the ministry of defence who aren’t authorised to speak to the media said.
In 2015, the Narendra Modi-led National Democratic Alliance (NDA) government at the Centre scrapped the US$ 20 billion (approx INR 140 billion) MMRCA project. Instead, it opted to buy 36 Rafale aircraft from French defence manufacturing giant Dassault through a government-to-government contract with France. The ~58,000 crore deal has triggered a major political controversy, with the Opposition alleging corruption and wrongdoing in the purchase of the aircraft which the government has vehemently denied.
Strapped with an ageing and depleting fighter fleet, IAF had floated a Request for Information (RFI) – a global tender – to buy 110 fighters. Of the 110 jets, around 85% will have to be built in India under the ‘Make in India’ programme in partnership with an Indian manufacturer under the Strategic Partnership (SP) route.
“What was tested earlier and proved will not be put to test again,” the officer said. “When we evaluate fighters now, only new additions, systems of the aircraft, and modifications made to the aircraft, if any, will be put to test. We have decided not to go through the entire process again. This will substantially cut down the time,” the first defence ministry officer said.
What may come as a relief to IAF is that all six global manufacturers who have responded to the RFI – Lockheed Martin F-16 and SAAB Gripen with single-engine fighters, and Boeing F-18, Dassault Rafale, Eurofighter Typhoon and United Aircraft Corporation MiG-35 with twin-engine fighters – were also contenders for the previous MMRCA deal.
The air force is now in the process of finalising the Air Staff Qualitative Requirements (ASQR) – a list of must-have capabilities and parameters – for the aircraft. “We are ensuring that ASQR takes into account the disruptive and transformative technologies that are likely to be a reality in the coming decades. The ASQR will be complete in the next few weeks,” a second official involved in the acquisition process said.
“We hope to get a nod from the ministry (of defence) by March 2019,” the officer added.
With a new government expected to be sworn in next May, the IAF is keen to complete as much of the process as possible before that.
“We hope to start the process of field evaluation by next June and complete it as early as possible, so that commercial negotiation can start,” the second officer said.
Commercial negotiations are precurser to signing a contract.
The IAF spokesperson was not available for comment. Experts and former IAF test pilots who were involved in the acquisition of aircraft, however, said “using previous test results” is practical but advised caution at the same time.
“It is not necessary to test proven points in the QSR again; all previous points on which a platform was found to be non-complaint should be checked,” Air Marshal RK Sharma (retd), former Vice Chief of IAF and test pilot, said.
“Importantly, when checking fresh add-ons, modifications to a platform the IAF must ensure is that they check all parameters that the modification will affect,” he said
“The process that follows the selection of the aircraft like commercial negotiations, etc, should also be completed quickly,” he said.
IAF to select 110 fighters after multi-role combat aircraft results
March 2019 and June 2019 are unrealistic. June 2019 and Jan 2020 are more realistic.
=>Saw that report posted on FB, not sure how reliable the content was, but it's clear that nothing will happen ahead of the elections.
However, if the content is reliable and IAF will rush things, it's also clear that only the Rafale F3R will be evaluated, which means IAF won't do much evaluation on Rafale at all and will focus on the new capabilities of Gripen E, F18 B3, or even Mig 35, that wasn't available in the older tender. The only new capability of the F16 B70 is a different AESA and from what I have seen so far, a less capable one, so that won't take much time either.
I don't understand why do you think they will evaluate Gripen E which will be operationel in 2023 and will not evaluate Rafale F4.1 which will be operational in 2023 too?
Because Gripen E capabilites will be available for evaluation next year, since the IOC begins in 2019 already and the serial production has already begun, while F4 hardware upgrades are planned for 2025 as you know very well. Even the software upgrades, that you are trying to refer to, won't be available for evaluation next year or? So simple logic tells you, that all there is to evaluate, is what IAF already gets, the F3R.
P.S. will be interesting to see if the EF will be able to show P4E capabilities, since that might come before the F4 as well.
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Personally even I believe Gripen has AC, but those antenna placements may not necessarily make it true.
No F4 hardware are planned for 2021 because all Rafale planned after the current LPM are officially said to be F4.2, so they will be deliver with F4.2 hardware and such delivery will begin in 2021. Finally it's the software which make the delay, not the hardware. F4.1 will be operational in 2023 for all Rafale which means that an experimental version will be available to be tested by IAF because a majority of the Rafale F4 capabilities are already been tested in PEA like Trajedac.
Some Gripen E capabilities will be available for evaluation next year but not all capabilities because tests begin with basic capabilities and such capabilities are already tested with Rafale. If you look at the F-35 IOC, you can see that such a milestone is easy to pass and doesn't need all capabilities to be available.
Everybody will come with their A game this time.
Typhoon will have an AESA, Su-35 can feed off of the Super MKI and PAK FA program, SH Block 3 and F-16B70 will be ready by then, and so will the Mig-35.
And that says it all, since your believe should not be confused with knowledge.
So yes, that's what I'm saying, until something concrete comes through there is no active cancellation on Gripen.
Now you pushed it down to 2021?
And no, fully capable F4.2s will be delivered only from 2025 onwards. There is no higher thrust engine available, no MICA NG, which is planned even for 2026 only, FSO-NG, GaN upgrades..., promised for F4, but neither available next year, nor according to IAF time lines in your report.Wrong again, since the "new capabilities" are the fully developed radar, EW and the WAD, which all will be avaliable from IOC onwards, but wasn't available in the MMRCA 1.0 trials. What's missing is the final integration of A2G capabilities, which however doesnt require the final fighter version as seen in the MMRCA 1.0 trials. Other than that only the Brazilian weapon customizations might be missing, unless they will be integrated in Sweden too.
I don't think you understand Sancho's logic. Brazil will get IOC version of Gripen even before the first IOC prototype has been tested. But Rafale cannot bring in prototypes for testing, only a full production model is necessary.
When you don't want to understand you're the biggest fool I know.Now you pushed it down to 2021?
I never said that the F4.2 standard would be available in 2021 but only that the Rafale that will be released in 2021 will one day be capable of F4.2, which implies that the hardware characteristic of F4.2 and which is missing on the current Rafale will be available from 2021
http://www.f-16.net/forum/download/file.php?id=25484&sid=5fd71907ad137a02dcc17774fb7f7a09
Even with the F4.2 hardware these Rafale will receive F3R standard, then F4.1 when available in 2023, then F4.2 standard in 2025 but you can use a radar with GaN T/R even with F3R for exemple but to use the side antenna you will have to wait F4.2.
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Nor have I claimed that, but you first argued with F4.1 in 2023 and when I pointed out that the evaluation in 2019 can only evaluate things that are available then, you conveniently changed your arguments in "experimental" techs will be available in 2021. So don't blame me, because your initial claim didn't worked.
Wrong, it only implies that these airframes are of the same tranche, that later will be F4s, but as you explained yourself, they will get the necessary hardware only in 2025.
So all you have in 2021, are new airframes with F3R technologies and weapon capabilities, which is exactly as I said there is nothing to evaluate for IAF next year.
I never said that the hardware will be available only in 2025 and now I can say that Thales insider who is in charge of RBE2 program said me that F4.2 hardware will be available in 2021. And I can add that F4.1 software is already on the B301 plane. What is time consuming is not the development of software but the tests needed to declare it operational.
New Generation Weapons System Within a Future Combat Air System
The first presentation was entitled “New Generation Weapons System Within a Future Combat Air System” and focused upon the environment in which the evolving capabilities would need to operate and to prevail.
The FCAS was launched by the German and French declaration in July 2017 and will see the first contracts generated early next year.
The goal of the effort is to be able to “guarantee” air and space superiority and the FCAS is envisaged as delivering this capability.
As a ‘system of systems’ approach, the notion is that the system will deliver the goal of air superiority; not any specific platform.
As a result, the focus will be upon the build of new platforms in terms of how they connect and work together.
The focus is upon the platform team to be built to augment existing legacy assets which will be undergoing continuous modernization, like the Rafale fighter which will go through significant upgrades through its service life beyond the projected introduction of the FCAS fighter in the 2040s.
This means the challenge of connecting the force becomes a crucial choke point to or focus of attention for effective implementation of the FCAS approach.
In the first presentation, this was clearly recognized.
Connectivity from the perspective of the FCAS approach was seen to encompass: the network, data storage and management (the combat cloud), interoperability for combined and joint ops; and interactions between the FCAS and legacy systems.
To achieve this is challenging on several levels.
Standing up the system requires working a number of issues: standardization in waveforms, communication systems, data infrastructure (cloud architecture, aircraft avionic architecture, and digital services (SAAS – Software as a Service).
Also important are the challenges of security, data protection and cyber intrusions as well as working the relationship between autonomy and collaboration among the platforms in the FCAS ‘system of systems’.
Even though the FCAS is being launched as a German-French program, the first speaker noted that the French would like the fighter to be carrier capable, something which is not necessary for the Germans.
And finally, the first speaker underscored the requirement to be able to shape new processes to adapt swiftly to the changing environment.
And he illustrated this challenge by highlighting the need to have effective and rapid interaction between the customers and operational capabilities, on the one hand, and industry and the development of technologies, on the other hand.
The graphic illustrated a major opportunity and challenge within the FCAS approach: how to get the procurement agencies to work more effectively with the combat force and in turn how to get better cultural integration across industry to support the transformation of governmental processes?
This is no easy set of tasks.
The French Air Force and FCAS: Perspectives from the International Fighter Conference 2018 - Second Line of Defense
The first presentation was entitled “New Generation Weapons System Within a Future Combat Air System” and focused upon the environment in which the evolving capabilities would need to operate and to prevail.
The FCAS was launched by the German and French declaration in July 2017 and will see the first contracts generated early next year.
The goal of the effort is to be able to “guarantee” air and space superiority and the FCAS is envisaged as delivering this capability.
As a ‘system of systems’ approach, the notion is that the system will deliver the goal of air superiority; not any specific platform.
As a result, the focus will be upon the build of new platforms in terms of how they connect and work together.
The focus is upon the platform team to be built to augment existing legacy assets which will be undergoing continuous modernization, like the Rafale fighter which will go through significant upgrades through its service life beyond the projected introduction of the FCAS fighter in the 2040s.
This means the challenge of connecting the force becomes a crucial choke point to or focus of attention for effective implementation of the FCAS approach.
In the first presentation, this was clearly recognized.
Connectivity from the perspective of the FCAS approach was seen to encompass: the network, data storage and management (the combat cloud), interoperability for combined and joint ops; and interactions between the FCAS and legacy systems.
To achieve this is challenging on several levels.
Standing up the system requires working a number of issues: standardization in waveforms, communication systems, data infrastructure (cloud architecture, aircraft avionic architecture, and digital services (SAAS – Software as a Service).
Also important are the challenges of security, data protection and cyber intrusions as well as working the relationship between autonomy and collaboration among the platforms in the FCAS ‘system of systems’.
Even though the FCAS is being launched as a German-French program, the first speaker noted that the French would like the fighter to be carrier capable, something which is not necessary for the Germans.
And finally, the first speaker underscored the requirement to be able to shape new processes to adapt swiftly to the changing environment.
And he illustrated this challenge by highlighting the need to have effective and rapid interaction between the customers and operational capabilities, on the one hand, and industry and the development of technologies, on the other hand.
The graphic illustrated a major opportunity and challenge within the FCAS approach: how to get the procurement agencies to work more effectively with the combat force and in turn how to get better cultural integration across industry to support the transformation of governmental processes?
This is no easy set of tasks.
The French Air Force and FCAS: Perspectives from the International Fighter Conference 2018 - Second Line of Defense
