Multi-Role Carrier Borne Fighter For The Indian Navy - Updates & Discussions

What should we select?


  • Total voters
    61
  • Poll closed .
What modifications are you referring to ? Btw how did it occur to you to dust up a post from more than a year & a half ago at 0125 hours.
Modification on price, that's what we were talking about a year and a half ago, you have to keep up! There aren't too many interesting events at the moment, so we can look at the posts we neglected when there were too many.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rajput Lion
Modification on price, that's what we were talking about a year and a half ago, you have to keep up! There aren't too many interesting events at the moment, so we can look at the posts we neglected when there were too many.
No clue. Are you privy to the price Dassault offered India initially & the price at which they're going to sign the contract ?
 
No clue. Are you privy to the price Dassault offered India initially & the price at which they're going to sign the contract ?
No idea, I'm on eternal holiday now! I don't know what's in the contract, I have the impression that there are a lot of things in addition to the planes. They say it's the arms negotiations that are delaying the signing, but it could be in another contract. A year or two ago I was hoping that we'd get 26 for the navy and 72 for the IAF, which would allow us to produce Rafales in India. But India doesn't know how to seize an opportunity when it comes along. Mérignac is going to be saturated, and we'll have to produce elsewhere than in France, and it won't be India, even though we've already got 500 Rafales and will certainly reach more than 1,000.
 
Dassault sets up MRO for Rafale, Mirage fighters in India; Indian national to head venture
French company Dassault Aviation has begun acquiring land near the Delhi Noida International Airport/Jewar International Airport, which will house a future MRO (Maintenance, Repair and Overhaul) facility, where aircraft will be serviced. In addition to the Indian ones, Indonesian Rafales are also to be serviced there. In addition, India is currently negotiating the purchase of 26 Rafale Marines for India's Navy, so the fleet of French aircraft in India may soon increase. In addition, Safran wants to build its MRO facility in Hyderabad and it will service the Snecma M88 engines used in the Rafale.
GVl9_bTXkAAA9_6
 
Last edited:
No idea, I'm on eternal holiday now! I don't know what's in the contract, I have the impression that there are a lot of things in addition to the planes. They say it's the arms negotiations that are delaying the signing, but it could be in another contract. A year or two ago I was hoping that we'd get 26 for the navy and 72 for the IAF, which would allow us to produce Rafales in India. But India doesn't know how to seize an opportunity when it comes along. Mérignac is going to be saturated, and we'll have to produce elsewhere than in France, and it won't be India, even though we've already got 500 Rafales and will certainly reach more than 1,000.

India will eventually become more enticing as a production hub after a few years of production. All other countries will struggle with labor shortages.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Amarante
Training is done close to coast. In Sea Harriers we used to fly non diversionary even beyond 500 NM from coast. Normally for flying beyond 500 NM from any available nearest diversion airfield, Navies prefer twin engine fighters.

If we are able to Make 75KN/120 KN engine, we can make one variant of MWF as naval variant. It will have 30% higher dry thrust and about 23% higher wet thrust. After modifications, it can be a single engine deck-based fighter. What is your view on that sir?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rajput Lion
The Indian Ministry of Defence's Procurement Council will pave the way for the purchase of 26 Rafale-Marines

by Laurent Lagneau - 3 September 2024

Speaking on Europe 1 on 30 August, Dassault Aviation CEO Éric Trappier said that another Rafale contract could be signed before the end of the year, after the Serbian Ministry of Defence had confirmed its intention to buy twelve aircraft the previous day. As usual, he did not specify the country with which negotiations are underway. While Greece is a possibility, there is a very good chance that it will be India.

In July 2023, on the occasion of the twenty-fifth anniversary of the strategic partnership sealed by France and India, the Indian Prime Minister, Narendra Modi, confirmed the Indian Navy's choice of the Rafale Marine over Boeing's F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, following an evaluation carried out as part of the MRCBF [Multi Role Carrier Borne Fighters] programme launched in 2017.

As a reminder, the Indian Navy intends to acquire 26 multi-role carrier-based fighter-bombers to replace its Russian-designed MiG-29Ks, which are underperforming, with high attrition and complicated maintenance. And this at a time when it is operating two aircraft carriers [INS Vikramaditya and INS Vikrant] and hopes to have a third.

Contract negotiations with Dassault Aviation [not forgetting Thales and Safran] were opened by India last November, with the submission of a letter of request. In July, the Economic Times reported that discussions were focusing on the value of the contract, then estimated at just over €6 billion. ‘The French offer includes options to integrate Indian weapons, including the Astra air-to-air missile, as well as India-specific upgrades and other related equipment,’ the daily said.

Did the Indian negotiators get a discount on this offer? The fact remains that, on 3 September, the Indian Ministry of Defence's Procurement Council is due to meet to approve the purchase of the 26 Rafale M aircraft. However, this does not mean that a contract will be signed immediately. As the Indian procedure is relatively complicated, it will then be up to a ‘cost negotiation committee’ to decide on the matter. This is what The Hindustan Times explained.

The daily also said that the DAC would abandon plans to integrate an experimental AESA radar developed by the DRDO on the Rafale M because ‘the cost is prohibitive’ and this would further delay the purchase of the on-board fighter-bombers.

‘The Indian Navy needs Rafale-Ms for its latest aircraft carrier, INS Vikrant, in view of ‘the deteriorating strategic environment in the Indo-Pacific’, he writes. Hence, moreover, the imminent green light to build the 8 ‘advanced stealth frigates’ of project 17B, for more than 7 billion euros.

Like what we did in Doklam Conflict, we can deploy these deck-based fighters in border area as well. We had deployed Mig-29 in Doklam at the time of Doklam Stand-off.
 
If we are able to Make 75KN/120 KN engine, we can make one variant of MWF as naval variant. It will have 30% higher dry thrust and about 23% higher wet thrust. After modifications, it can be a single engine deck-based fighter. What is your view on that sir?
the shore based aircraft are required to fly over land mostly, so they need high wingloading to be able to fly safely at low levels in case they are not 5th Gen. But the requirement for a deck based fighter , especially for Stobar carrier, is that the aircraft should have low wing loading. Its not so much about engine thrust as it is about generating lift. So even with lower thrust you can take off from the deck provided you have bigger wings. Take the case of F-35A and F-35C.
 
the shore based aircraft are required to fly over land mostly, so they need high wingloading to be able to fly safely at low levels in case they are not 5th Gen. But the requirement for a deck based fighter , especially for Stobar carrier, is that the aircraft should have low wing loading. Its not so much about engine thrust as it is about generating lift. So even with lower thrust you can take off from the deck provided you have bigger wings. Take the case of F-35A and F-35C.

PLAN's J-35 also has a wider wing compared to the J-31.
 
the shore based aircraft are required to fly over land mostly, so they need high wingloading to be able to fly safely at low levels in case they are not 5th Gen. But the requirement for a deck based fighter , especially for Stobar carrier, is that the aircraft should have low wing loading. Its not so much about engine thrust as it is about generating lift. So even with lower thrust you can take off from the deck provided you have bigger wings. Take the case of F-35A and F-35C.
The Rafale flies safely at low altitude and has superior lift thanks to the canards, which create vortices on the upper surface that increase lift.
 
I think this is true for every aircraft with Canard. Canards are basically installed for that Purpose along with some other purposes.
Not for the Typhoon, whose canards are not coupled to the wing. What's more, on the Rafale this was done to resolve the contradiction that @vstol Jockey mentioned between a land-based aircraft and an aircraft embarked on an aircraft carrier, in particular a STOBAR.
 
Yes, MKI canard and EFT comes with limited utility.
MKI's canards are mounted on an enlarged LERX(far bigger than baseline Su-27/30). Thus it increases lift/increases high alpha and reduces its stall speed. Typhoon's canards are designed like that to help its supersonic turn performance.

I'd heard that MKI canard were used to compensate for the very high weight of the radar.
The genesis of MKI's canards was in Su-33 Naval flanker. It was mounted on enlarged LERX to reduce the landing speed and increase control at low-speed/high-alpha.

MKI got canards(+ enlarged LERX) from Su-27M program aka Su-35/37 because of high weight of radar plus to mitigate CoG/CoP change due to heavy nose along with increase in high-alpha performance and to increase its overall lift(substantial, trust me!). That's why MKI's turn rates are so high.
 
  • Love
Reactions: HariPrasad
MKI's canards are mounted on an enlarged LERX(far bigger than baseline Su-27/30). Thus it increases lift/increases high alpha and reduces its stall speed. Typhoon's canards are designed like that to help its supersonic turn performance.


The genesis of MKI's canards was in Su-33 Naval flanker. It was mounted on enlarged LERX to reduce the landing speed and increase control at low-speed/high-alpha.

MKI got canards(+ enlarged LERX) from Su-27M program aka Su-35/37 because of high weight of radar plus to mitigate CoG/CoP change due to heavy nose along with increase in high-alpha performance and to increase its overall lift(substantial, trust me!). That's why MKI's turn rates are so high.

However, Chinese Sukhoi 30 does not have canard I believe. Both versions have different Payload of Radar? I know that MKI radar is more advance than Chinese Su 30 Radar but Do not know about the weight.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rajput Lion
However, Chinese Sukhoi 30 does not have canard I believe. Both versions have different Payload of Radar? I know that MKI radar is more advance than Chinese Su 30 Radar but Do not know about the weight.
Su-27SK had N001 Mech radar while PLAAF Su-30MKK had N001VE. Both of them weighed substantially less than MKI's BARS(around 200-300kgs less).

Chinese wanted Su-30MKK more as a fighter-bomber/striker against USN's CBG. IAF wanted MKI as our 2-seat Su-37 Terminator Super Flanker aka (multirole)Air Dominance Fighter. Both design objectives were different.
 
  • Love
Reactions: HariPrasad
Su-27SK had N001 Mech radar while PLAAF Su-30MKK had N001VE. Both of them weighed substantially less than MKI's BARS(around 200-300kgs less).

Chinese wanted Su-30MKK more as a fighter-bomber/striker against USN's CBG. IAF wanted MKI as our 2-seat Su-37 Terminator Super Flanker aka (multirole)Air Dominance Fighter. Both design objectives were different.

Cheer for you for the information.

I think Russia was not interested to Share those radars with China. What they sold to China at that time was the downgraded version of Su 30 which was sold to India.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rajput Lion