It's because you believe this kind of thing that your aeronautics industry is failing to develop, and it's not just with regard to the French, it's general for any cooperation.
I'm of the belief that once the deal with RR is signed & it's contours made public, the MoD will renew negotiations with SAFRAN possibly dangling further orders of Rafale as a carrot & the deal with RR as a stick.
Yup, Rolls Royce JV would not have happened if Safran delivered on their promises. Anyway we should continue with both the projects as any company can mess up engines. SAFRAN failed in Developing Slivercrest engine and as a result two important flagship aircraft projects failed: Cessna Citation Hemisphere and Dassault Falcon 5X .
Safran Silvercrest - Wikipedia
There is no relation between the two. Both engine types are needed.
Whether SAFRAN is stalling or not, I have no idea, but even if they deliver the engine free of cost, it won't find its way into AMCA.
Then why did you plug in the french $1 billion offer?
btw, by the time of next tranche, they will be auditing the offset progress. Very interested to see how Safran will fulfill it.
Don't worry. They did not live upto their promise and they will loose many orders for Rafale. No IN orders for them and even the IAF orders will be reduced from over 150 to just about 80. Four squadrons and that is it.
Yes, history could repeat. But, unlike the past strategically France is closer to us. If the Russian retreat (strategically) continues french can fill the space.
If the Russian retreat continues the French would definitely love to jump in & fill up the vacant space as it means they can squeeze us more. Fortunately, given the imminent collapse in the energy market & Russia's suspicion of the Chinese, they aren't going to vacate that space soon. Fortunately, for us too, Brexit has narrowed British room to manoeuvre. We can expect to see a lot more of British participation in our defense ventures & more importantly co operation unlike before .
Because the $ 1 billion offer was fair and very cheap, but you're too ignorant about engine technology to understand it.
Don't tell Indian's how cheap something is.
That's our expertise.Also, the entire Kaveri program development costs were half of that. Which includes nonexistent testing infrastructure creation.
British is really missing out here. They were the 'natural partners' in the new foreign policy lingo.
Let's wait for the RR agreement to fructify. We need to see what exactly are they bringing to the table. Post that you can expect a lot more offers for JVs in development of new platforms & manufacturing too.
The EU is crystallizing around France & Germany not only in the economic realm but also in terms of defense too. It means that British products & firms aren't going to be the first ones of choice for the EU nations. Then there's the US & their products to be considered. In this melee, the Brits are being squeezed & will continue to be so in the European markets. It's something the Brits aren't unaware of & something they're working on to save their indigenous MIC. All those outreaches to India are part of their game plan.
Thats why kaveri didn't materialised. We have a bad tendency of boasting about thing being dine in cheapest possible way.such attitude will work for furniture purchase in government office, but will not work in R&D project. Look at through broad window, if we had spent huge amount on kaveri from beginning, we would have a working engine. And howmany billions of dollars would have saved by installing it on tejas.Don't tell Indian's how cheap something is.
Also, the entire Kaveri program development costs were half of that. Which includes nonexistent testing infrastructure creation.
British is really missing out here. They were the 'natural partners' in the new foreign policy lingo.
Calm down.
We were too poor to spend high on any R&D let alone aero engine. Pouring billions on engineering problems won't magically solve it (Ask chinese).
DRDO's engine tech has reached a good enough place that they feel the K10 specification should not need greater investment than what was planned earlier. New Indian materials from two sources will enter the testing phase sooner than France can offer the same type of tech through the deal. So they might very well wait for that. So either a solution has to be found for transfer of engine tech, or SAFRAN has to find a new way to fulfill the offsets obligation.
But what's disappointing is the flight testing of the original Kaveri K9 has stalled in the process. They should have delinked the two right from the start.
Anyway, I don't think it's 1B euro. It appears both SAFRAN and DRDO were supposed to invest 250M each, with SAFRAN's 250M coming in as offsets. And possibly, SAFRAN contributing 250M worth of technology that was already developed, so no actual financial investment was involved at the time. Which means the actual financial input for R&D came in from DRDO. But during negotiations, DRDO's investment practically doubled to 500M, and that killed the deal. I hope the flight testing for K9 is renewed in new negotations at the very least.
Also, with DRDO and IAF having delinked Kaveri entirely from both Mk1A and MWF, any further development of the fighter jet version will end, unless something changes really fast, at least with respect to MWF and perhaps even AMCA Mk1A. It's too late for LCA Mk1A.
So it appears SAFRAN will be forced to put actual money into India as an alternative in lieu of simply giving away to India what is essentially useless technology to the French.
Otoh, the DRDO-Rolls Royce deal will be much bigger for more advanced tech.
Won't be an issue. Many times companies have backtracked from their initial offer and changed it to something else later on, the Americans for example, Boeing was supposed to give us a trisonic wind tunnel as offsets and also a flying testbed, but decided to change it to just production orders.
Otoh, IAF doesn't care about these things, they only care about their operational requirements, so as long as SAFRAN finds some other way to meet their obligations, the IAF will push for more Rafales. And even with MRFA, unless the F-35 joins in, the Rafale has no competition. It's practically a shoo-in for both L1 and T1.
Yes, that's your price for a program that produced an engine that doesn't work. The price of the M-88 program that produced a working engine is ten times higher.Don't tell Indian's how cheap something is.
Also, the entire Kaveri program development costs were half of that. Which includes nonexistent testing infrastructure creation.
Yup, compared to the amt we spend on deals buying from outside what we spend on R&D is peanuts. A competitive working engine would have not only lowered the cost but also ensured that we have more leverage to strike a for a fair deal in foreign JV's.
No.
The M88 hot core option was just .... an option.
Safran suggested to work on the whole Kaveri, with the Indian technology. But if failed to go to the end. Too costly Indian side said. As they always said with RR, GE, PW....
If you think we will give you the results of 75 years of high rank enginnering for free, you are and will be disapointed.
to give? no.
To sell? yes.
It's only a tribute to explain how it is difficult to study an engine....
Isn't it?
No, the engine works. We have attained certain maturity in aero-engine development. That's why europian are here selling their 'cheap' offer along with their 50 cent army.
As Dassault is trying to maximize profit the Indian state is trying to make good of the taxpayer's money.