Multi-Role Carrier Borne Fighter For The Indian Navy - Updates & Discussions

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French aircraft manufacturer Dassault Aviation’s Rafale-M has emerged as the frontrunner to bag a mega contract from the Indian Navy for 27 fighters, ThePrint has learnt, leaving behind US firm Boeing’s F/A-18 Super Hornet.

Sources in the defence and security establishment said the Navy has submitted a detailed report to the defence ministry on performance of the Super Hornets and Rafale-M, which is the marine version of the fighter aircraft already in use with the Indian Air Force, during two sets of demonstration.

American firm Boeing and French manufacturer Dassault Aviation carried out operational demonstrations of the Super Hornets and Rafale-M respectively, showcasing ski-jumps — a crucial take-off capability — from the shore-based test facility at INS Hansa in Goa, to demonstrate their ability to operate from Indian aircraft carriers.


Refusing to get into details, sources said the report from the naval headquarters to the defence ministry mentions the “positives” only, and that Rafale-M met all criteria.

The report to the defence ministry has been sent after a detailed analysis by the naval headquarters on the performance by both aircraft. Those undertaking the tests had prepared a ‘trial report’ that was sent to the naval headquarters for detailed analysis on performance and shortlisting of aircraft.

Asked whether the lift size of India’s indigenous aircraft carrier INS Vikrant would be an issue, sources said both aircraft had to be brought up and down at a certain angle.

While the wings of Super Hornets fold — unlike the Rafale — these still had to be brought up and down at a certain angle. Both aircraft also have a separate process in which the wings fold.


The design and space of the lift size has been a problem because it is understood to have been made taking the MiG 29K and the naval version of the Tejas aircraft into consideration.

The Navy currently operates the Russian MiG 29K aircraft from INS Vikramaditya. But with the commissioning of INS Vikrant, the force has been seeking more fighter jets.

The new contract is meant to be an interim arrangement because the Navy is betting on its indigenous fighter. Navy Chief Admiral Hari Kumar had Saturday said the future of Indian naval aviation was the indigenous Twin Engine Deck Based Fighter (TEDBF), whose prototype is expected by 2026-27 and production to start somewhere around 2032.

He also said that the existing naval fighter, MiG 29K, were in limited numbers and Russian spare supplies were “also not very forthcoming”.



Rafale being ahead on tech specs and capabilities was obvious. Now comes the cost calculation, although it's a lot more muted in this competition.
 
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I wouldn't call 27 aircraft a "mega contract", certainly not for a country the size of India. Maybe if it were Malta attempting to buy 27 fighters, then it'd be a mega contract.

As for the report's worth, as always, I'll wait for something official, meaning, see you in 2037.

In terms of numbers and economics, no. But in terms of geopolitics, it's more than mega. These 27 aircraft will be used in a CBG after all.

A moving air base with 27 jets is a whole lot scarier than 54 jets stuck on an island.
 
I wouldn't call 27 aircraft a "mega contract", certainly not for a country the size of India. Maybe if it were Malta attempting to buy 27 fighters, then it'd be a mega contract.

As for the report's worth, as always, I'll wait for something official, meaning, see you in 2037.
Total Rafale-M production is what 40 ? Thus it's substantial for you.
 
Total Rafale-M production is what 40 ? Thus it's substantial for you.
Not the problem.
The sole differences between a M and a C/B are : integrated ladder, strengh under carriage and hook. The frame and weapon system is exactly the same.
 
French aircraft manufacturer Dassault Aviation’s Rafale-M has emerged as the frontrunner to bag a mega contract from the Indian Navy for 27 fighters, ThePrint has learnt, leaving behind US firm Boeing’s F/A-18 Super Hornet.

Sources in the defence and security establishment said the Navy has submitted a detailed report to the defence ministry on performance of the Super Hornets and Rafale-M, which is the marine version of the fighter aircraft already in use with the Indian Air Force, during two sets of demonstration.

American firm Boeing and French manufacturer Dassault Aviation carried out operational demonstrations of the Super Hornets and Rafale-M respectively, showcasing ski-jumps — a crucial take-off capability — from the shore-based test facility at INS Hansa in Goa, to demonstrate their ability to operate from Indian aircraft carriers.


Refusing to get into details, sources said the report from the naval headquarters to the defence ministry mentions the “positives” only, and that Rafale-M met all criteria.

The report to the defence ministry has been sent after a detailed analysis by the naval headquarters on the performance by both aircraft. Those undertaking the tests had prepared a ‘trial report’ that was sent to the naval headquarters for detailed analysis on performance and shortlisting of aircraft.

Asked whether the lift size of India’s indigenous aircraft carrier INS Vikrant would be an issue, sources said both aircraft had to be brought up and down at a certain angle.

While the wings of Super Hornets fold — unlike the Rafale — these still had to be brought up and down at a certain angle. Both aircraft also have a separate process in which the wings fold.


The design and space of the lift size has been a problem because it is understood to have been made taking the MiG 29K and the naval version of the Tejas aircraft into consideration.

The Navy currently operates the Russian MiG 29K aircraft from INS Vikramaditya. But with the commissioning of INS Vikrant, the force has been seeking more fighter jets.

The new contract is meant to be an interim arrangement because the Navy is betting on its indigenous fighter. Navy Chief Admiral Hari Kumar had Saturday said the future of Indian naval aviation was the indigenous Twin Engine Deck Based Fighter (TEDBF), whose prototype is expected by 2026-27 and production to start somewhere around 2032.

He also said that the existing naval fighter, MiG 29K, were in limited numbers and Russian spare supplies were “also not very forthcoming”.


I am Surprised.
 
Total Rafale-M production is what 40 ? Thus it's substantial for you.
There are only two Rafale: Rafale M and Rafale B.
The Rafale C is built from these two Rafales by taking the front of the Rafale M (with the Rafale B landing gear) which is mounted on the rear of the Rafale B.
So if you have a Rafale M and a Rafale B you can very simply build a Rafale N (two-seater marine Rafale) and a Rafale C.
All you have to do is take the front of the Rafale B, fit the Rafale M landing gear to it and mount the whole thing on the rear of the Rafale M.
You are left with the rear of the Rafale B, the front of the Rafale M and the Rafale B landing gear, which is exactly what you need to make a Rafale C.
The only thing missing is to make some tests of the Rafale N, but in 3 years we have plenty of time if necessary.

And the Rafale N prototype can be built in 2 months from operational aircraft in the French army...
I am Surprised.
Why?
 
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Rafale being ahead on tech specs and capabilities was obvious. Now comes the cost calculation, although it's a lot more muted in this competition.
With the logistical savings due to the Rafale's implementation in the IAF, it is likely that we will also win this competition.

The only handicap of the Rafale is India's desire to make a strategic accord with the US. This is why there has been intense French diplomatic activity in India recently.
 
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Both aircraft also have a separate process in which the wings fold.
Rafale-M able to fold wings?
If at all something as such is demanded, Dassault should be able to do it. Remember Mig29K prototypes didn't had folding wings. Only once India ordered it that the Russians fully modified the airframe.

Half baked, but still.

What I am trying to say, it can be done. And I am assuming for a fairly reasonable price.
 
With the logistical savings due to the Rafale's implementation in the IAF, it is likely that we will also win this competition.

The new exchange rate will help a lot more. But I think in the long term, things will favour the SH more. India is already working on a plan to produce 100% of the F414. And Boeing seems to be open to start making major parts for the SH in India, for the world, I suppose in preparation for MRFA too. The industrial benefits could actually be better because of F414's connection to Indian technologies.

The only handicap of the Rafale is India's desire to make a strategic accord with the US. This is why there has been intense French diplomatic activity in India recently.

Political, yeah. But this is probably the only area where we can make such a deal with the US. Pretty much everything else is either too old, too small to be relevant or is not exported.

The only major issue now is a two-seater version. And of course, networking via CENTRIXS.
 
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250-300 million Euros seems fair to you?
To me it doesn't.
We bankrolled the whole Su30 development of all variants, Mig29 modernisation (including K), modernisation of 3 major shipyards in Russia and modernisation of their armoured industry.

And Russians benefitted by selling these everywhere including China.

If Rafale , I am saying if it is compatible with our requirements. Then we can definitely look into it.

Because the cost to modify the arrestor wires to handle Super Hornets will be too high. If at all if Russians agree even.
 
We bankrolled the whole Su30 development of all variants, Mig29 modernisation (including K), modernisation of 3 major shipyards in Russia and modernisation of their armoured industry.

And Russians benefitted by selling these everywhere including China.
China and India both saved Russia's MIC.
If Rafale , I am saying if it is compatible with our requirements. Then we can definitely look into it.

Because the cost to modify the arrestor wires to handle Super Hornets will be too high. If at all if Russians agree even.
Let's see.
 
Any news from French side?
First news in french.
It's urgent to wait and see, but :

- in the news they say that the recent agreement from USA to maintain the Pak F16 is a bad signal for US products.

- and they say that IAF is "very satisfied" with their Rafale.

- Huge community between M and C/B Rafale meaning less support costs.
 
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