Multi-Role Carrier Borne Fighter For The Indian Navy - Updates & Discussions

[Sathya]

First news in french.

Le Rafale M serait en ballotage très favorable pour équiper la marine indienne - Zone Militaire

Dans le cadre de son programme MRCBF , qui vise à acquérir au moins 26 nouveaux chasseurs embarqués afin de remplacer les MiG-29K de facture russe qui ne

www.opex360.com

It's urgent to wait and see, but :

- in the news they say that the recent agreement from USA to maintain the Pak F16 is a bad signal for US products.

- and they say that IAF is "very satisfied" with their Rafale.

- Huge community between M and C/B Rafale meaning less support costs.

The Rafale M would be in a very favorable position to equip the Indian Navy. .​

We cannot trust media news regarding the winner of Indian Navy requirements.

Indian MoD can take decisions.. Surprising everyone... Who knows they may even cancel it..

Better to wait for official announcements.

 

[A Person]

Total Rafale-M production is what 40 ? Thus it's substantial for you.

It's the same production line as the land-based variants, so it doesn't change much industrially doesn't change much industrially or economically. Front landing gear and arresting hook are different, there's a built-in ladder, and a couple more electronic subsystems related to carrier operations. Nothing drastically different.

First news in french.

It's just paraphrasing the Indian press, there's nothing new.

 

[Amarante]

Any news from French side?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1600779672996184065

 

[Picdelamirand-oil]

India is already working on a plan to produce 100% of the F414. And Boeing seems to be open to start making major parts for the SH in India, for the world, I suppose in preparation for MRFA too. The industrial benefits could actually be better because of F414's connection to Indian technologies.

F414's connection to Indian technologies, for the moment means Tejas MK2, TEDBF, and AMCA.

Tejas Mk2 is the first to be operational and it was said in october that the first fly will be at the begining of 2024 so after 15 months minimum. But India time is 8X normal time so 15 months translate in 120 months and the first fly will be in 2032, maybe then it will be operational in a century, and it will be the first of the three to be operational.

 

[Nilgiri]

With the logistical savings due to the Rafale's implementation in the IAF, it is likely that we will also win this competition.

The only handicap of the Rafale is India's desire to make a strategic accord with the US. This is why there has been intense French diplomatic activity in India recently.

IMO France should offer best it can on safran cooperation with Indian gas turbine program. This will clinch many things for France in this decade and following ones too.

 

[Bali78]

I don't think so. where the M has a "jump" massive gear, the C has a classical, smaller and lighter one.

P8I, Apache, C17.... more than enough for a strategic accord.
We are speaking of only 27 fighters.

It's not a question of only 27 fighters. It's about breaking the big barrier of entering into Indian fighter groups. Once that barrier is broken, Uncle Sam will push into all future aircraft deals and will eventually control India's strategic autonomy.

 

[Ashwin]

IMO France should offer best it can on safran cooperation with Indian gas turbine program. This will clinch many things for France in this decade and following ones too.

They are not good at partnering with others.

 

[randomradio]

IMO France should offer best it can on safran cooperation with Indian gas turbine program. This will clinch many things for France in this decade and following ones too.

They already have. So have the British.

The Americans have offered an even better deal, 100% ToT of the F414 for LCA, TEDBF and AMCA, and a JV for AMCA's main engine with full ToT and IP. GE is already working with HAL on LM2500 assembly, overhaul and testing, so that will also see an expansion, along with an IEP system with BHEL.

 

[randomradio]

It's not a question of only 27 fighters. It's about breaking the big barrier of entering into Indian fighter groups. Once that barrier is broken, Uncle Sam will push into all future aircraft deals and will eventually control India's strategic autonomy.

That's a secondary reason. The main reason is the Americans will get direct access to future Indian defence commanders when they are young. The prospects of fighters and ship captains becoming top level execs is higher than other fields, so you maximise your opportunities. Plus the importance of fighters is a lot greater than any other asset class since an air force is centered around it, so fighter jocks get to make more important decisions.

So fighters for the IAF, warships and submarines for the IN and armoured vehicles for the IA, and some niche areas, even some infantry tech. The Americans can't be allowed to step into these three areas.

Everywhere else, depending on numbers or importance, it's fine.

 

[randomradio]

We bankrolled the whole Su30 development of all variants, Mig29 modernisation (including K), modernisation of 3 major shipyards in Russia and modernisation of their armoured industry.

And Russians benefitted by selling these everywhere including China.

If Rafale , I am saying if it is compatible with our requirements. Then we can definitely look into it.

Because the cost to modify the arrestor wires to handle Super Hornets will be too high. If at all if Russians agree even.

The arrestor grear isn't that expensive, relatively speaking. At best it will cost us a few million bucks to make adjustments.

So the decision will be 100% politics, 0% money.

 

[RASALGHUL]

The Americans have offered an even better deal, 100% ToT of the F414 for LCA, TEDBF and AMCA,

That's good to hear.

and a JV for AMCA's main engine with full ToT and IP.

Are you sure?

 

[RASALGHUL]

The main reason is the Americans will get direct access to future Indian defence commanders when they are young. The prospects of fighters and ship captains becoming top level execs is higher than other fields, so you maximise your opportunities.

Can you expain more? I didn't get it.....

 

[Ashwin]

Can someone explain how future outlook of Rafale M looks like? How are the upgrades planned and is there any outstanding orders from navy?

 

[randomradio]

Are you sure?

That's what we want, and they are willing to give it.

 

[randomradio]

Can you expain more? I didn't get it.....

The Americans will be able to maintian communications with new officers who will eventually climb up the ranks and become Admirals, Air Marshals and Generals.

Most top level commanders are from warships, fighter and infantry/armour streams. If you get contracts in these streams, then LM execs, USG bureaucrats and US MIC will get access to people who will one day become top leaders in 10 or 20 or 30 years. These are the people you can subvert, influence opinions or just have a general advantage in negotiations due to people-to-people contacts. The same kind Russia and France have had for decades, which gives them an unfair advantage over the Americans when India makes geopolitical decisions, like their failure in making India choose sides over Ukraine.

 

[RASALGHUL]

That's what we want, and they are willing to give it.

So, SH BIII will/should win??

 

[RASALGHUL]

Tejas Mk2 is the first to be operational and it was said in october that the first fly will be at the begining of 2024 so after 15 months minimum. But India time is 8X normal time so 15 months translate in 120 months and the first fly will be in 2032, maybe then it will be operational in a century, and it will be the first of the three to be operational.

Meh! Laugh Or Make Fun all you want, BUT Tejas MK2 won't be Much of a challenge, hence Won't be delayed by that much.
However for AMCA, TEDBF will certainly be delayed( Don't know by how much?).

 

[randomradio]

So, SH BIII will/should win??

Unless the SH has failed technical evaluations, the decision will be political. Rafale is the better jet, but SH has better political benefits.

I don't believe this deal will affect the engine deal. In fact, losing MRCBF will make the engine deal all the more crucial for the Americans.

 

[A Person]

Can someone explain how future outlook of Rafale M looks like? How are the upgrades planned

Same as Rafale C and B. They use the same standards just with a few extra specialized equipment. This goes both ways. For example, the French air force does not operate Exocet missiles or refueling pods, but since they are integrated on the Rafale M, they can be used on the Rafale B and C. Greek Rafale use Exocet, and Egyptian Rafale carry refueling pods, despite not being Rafale M.

So they'll get the same F4, F5, etc. standard upgrades as the air force ones. The upgrades and volutions of the materiel is decided by the ministry of defense, not by the armed forces branches, so Rafale upgrades are common to navy and air force. If we had a third separate branch operating them, kind of like what the Americans have with the USMC, then it'd also concern the aircraft of this third branch.

and is there any outstanding orders from navy?

Not at the moment, but the navy chief of staff has expressed concerns about the navy fleet getting old (they were the first service to receive them after all) and the delays of the NGF, if it ever actually happens, meaning that a new Rafale order is on the navy's wish list for later. Right now, however, the focus of the budget is on the submarines.

 

[_Anonymous_]

For some reason , the so called ToT of GE for the F-414 program is being discussed only here . Knowing this government's penchant for publicity , self promotion , etc especially w.r.t the atma nirbharta / MII component of it , isn't it rather surprising that they're strangely silent about the whole episode ?

Neither is there any discussion on this topic in SM by the usual suspects nor is the MSM reporting anything on it ? Rather strange when one thinks of it . Plus around the same time this news broke here if I'm not mistaken a DRDO / MoD delegation was touring RR facilities in UK .

In other words things don't add up . Put another way , in the words of my new found hero - Irish Joe - if things are too good to be true , they're too good to be true as Macron discovered at the same time as the rest of the EU .

Tell them , will you Paddy ? The absolute genius of Irish Joe in pulling off the con of several millennia ever since the Celts intermixed with the Neanderthals 3 millennia ago to birth a new people - the Irish in whose honour it was prophesied - tiocfaidh ar la more than a century ago .

They were actually telling of the coming of The One much like Morpheus was foretelling the coming of Neo in The Matrix since you only understand cine analogies. @BMD