Multi-Role Carrier Borne Fighter For The Indian Navy - Updates & Discussions

What should we select?

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  • Poll closed .
Optimist said:
The Air force with Indian requirements paid $160m flyaway and the Super hornet lll would be around $80m flyaway and a better plane. I still voted for the Rafale though. Why run a small fleet of another type? Just more issues.
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No, the fly away price for the 36 Rafales of the IAF was 3.42 billion dollars which is 95 million per plane. In addition, there were costs for the upgrade of the 2 bases to accommodate 72 aircraft instead of 36, costs for the development of the ISE, which are not counted in the flyaway price because it is not a recurring price and will not be counted in the price for the IN, a cost for the 75% PBL that the navy will perhaps choose (but it is not obvious because on an aircraft carrier the spare parts are always present at the feet of the aircraft without it being necessary to pay a PBL for that) and a cost for the armaments.
Reasonably the costs that can be counted from the IAF contract to estimate the IN contract are
- fly away price: ~3.5 billion
- armament price: ~1 billion
That is 4.5 billion for 36 aircraft or 3.25 billion for 26 aircraft.
 
Picdelamirand-oil said:
No, the fly away price for the 36 Rafales of the IAF was 3.42 billion dollars which is 95 million per plane. In addition, there were costs for the upgrade of the 2 bases to accommodate 72 aircraft instead of 36, costs for the development of the ISE, which are not counted in the flyaway price because it is not a recurring price and will not be counted in the price for the IN, a cost for the 75% PBL that the navy will perhaps choose (but it is not obvious because on an aircraft carrier the spare parts are always present at the feet of the aircraft without it being necessary to pay a PBL for that) and a cost for the armaments.
Reasonably the costs that can be counted from the IAF contract to estimate the IN contract are
- fly away price: ~3.5 billion
- armament price: ~1 billion
That is 4.5 billion for 36 aircraft or 3.25 billion for 26 aircraft.
Click to expand...
You shouldn't tell lies, it shows bad character
www.strategicfront.org

SO WHERE IS THE SCAM? The reality of the NDA’s (now) controversial 2016 Rafale deal

By Abingdonboy 17-12-2017 As certain political campaigns have heated up in recent weeks a deal signed more than twelve months ago that had been signed to much adoration and applause has suddenly become somewhat of a “hot potato”. Those who were silent then have now sought to cast doubt on not...
www.strategicfront.org www.strategicfront.org
 
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I have shown you this before. You have no excuses. $3.8b and $2b is $160 each

www.strategicfront.org

SO WHERE IS THE SCAM? The reality of the NDA’s (now) controversial 2016 Rafale deal

By Abingdonboy 17-12-2017 As certain political campaigns have heated up in recent weeks a deal signed more than twelve months ago that had been signed to much adoration and applause has suddenly become somewhat of a “hot potato”. Those who were silent then have now sought to cast doubt on not...
www.strategicfront.org www.strategicfront.org

2016 NDA Rafale deal breakdown:
-Unit cost (36 F3+* RafalesX$105m*) $3.8b
Weapons (including SCALP ALCM and METEOR BVRAAM) $1.2b
-Base costs (creating world class base level maintenance operations and state of the art climate controlled hardened air shelters) $2b
-IAF specific enhancements ** ( including improved hot an high performance, integration of Israeli systems and weapons) $2b
Total: approx. $9b (or €7.9b or Rs59,630 crore as we know the deal was valued at in 2016).
 
Optimist said:
I have shown you this before. You have no excuses. $3.8b and $2b is $160 each

www.strategicfront.org

SO WHERE IS THE SCAM? The reality of the NDA’s (now) controversial 2016 Rafale deal

By Abingdonboy 17-12-2017 As certain political campaigns have heated up in recent weeks a deal signed more than twelve months ago that had been signed to much adoration and applause has suddenly become somewhat of a “hot potato”. Those who were silent then have now sought to cast doubt on not...
www.strategicfront.org www.strategicfront.org

2016 NDA Rafale deal breakdown:
-Unit cost (36 F3+* RafalesX$105m*) $3.8b
Weapons (including SCALP ALCM and METEOR BVRAAM) $1.2b
-Base costs (creating world class base level maintenance operations and state of the art climate controlled hardened air shelters) $2b
-IAF specific enhancements ** ( including improved hot an high performance, integration of Israeli systems and weapons) $2b
Total: approx. $9b (or €7.9b or Rs59,630 crore as we know the deal was valued at in 2016).
Click to expand...

www.bbc.com

Euro falls below dollar for first time in 20 years

Fears of recession in Europe are weighing heavily on the single currency.
www.bbc.com www.bbc.com
 
Optimist said:
I have shown you this before. You have no excuses. $3.8b and $2b is $160 each

www.strategicfront.org

SO WHERE IS THE SCAM? The reality of the NDA’s (now) controversial 2016 Rafale deal

By Abingdonboy 17-12-2017 As certain political campaigns have heated up in recent weeks a deal signed more than twelve months ago that had been signed to much adoration and applause has suddenly become somewhat of a “hot potato”. Those who were silent then have now sought to cast doubt on not...
www.strategicfront.org www.strategicfront.org

2016 NDA Rafale deal breakdown:
-Unit cost (36 F3+* RafalesX$105m*) $3.8b
Weapons (including SCALP ALCM and METEOR BVRAAM) $1.2b
-Base costs (creating world class base level maintenance operations and state of the art climate controlled hardened air shelters) $2b
-IAF specific enhancements ** ( including improved hot an high performance, integration of Israeli systems and weapons) $2b
Total: approx. $9b (or €7.9b or Rs59,630 crore as we know the deal was valued at in 2016).
Click to expand...
  • First it's not 3.8 b it's 3.42
  • Second it's not 2 b it's 1.7 b
  • third IAF specific enhancement is not part of fly away cost, because a fly away cost is define as a recuring cost and ISE are a development cost.
And even if you want to include this cost as a recuring cost for IAF, it will not be part of the IN cost.
So I maintain my estimate.
 
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Picdelamirand-oil said:
  • First it's not 3.8 b it's 3.42
  • Second it's not 2 b it's 1.7 b
  • third IAF specific enhancement is not part of fly away cost, because a fly away cost is define as a recuring cost and ISE are a development cost.
And even if you want to include this cost as a recuring cost for IAF, it will not be part of the IN cost.
So I maintain my estimate.
Click to expand...
The quoted price was back in 2017 as well. We will see the new Indian flyaway offer price, with what they want to add to make it worth flying.
Whatever way you want to cut it. The Super Hornet is better and cheaper
 
Optimist said:
The quoted price was back in 2017 as well. We will see the new Indian flyaway offer price, with what they want to add to make it worth flying.
Whatever way you want to cut it. The Super Hornet is better and cheaper
Click to expand...
The F-18 SH, with its snowplough skier aerodynamics,

chasse-neige-300x201.jpg

catastrophic range and ridiculous payload cannot compare to the Rafale operationally, and although it is slightly cheaper to buy, if you factor in the LCC over the life of the aircraft, the Rafale is much cheaper.
 
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Picdelamirand-oil said:
The F-18 SH, with its snowplough skier aerodynamics,

catastrophic range and ridiculous payload cannot compare to the Rafale operationally, and although it is slightly cheaper to buy, if you factor in the LCC over the life of the aircraft, the Rafale is much cheaper.
Click to expand...
You agree then, the best you can come up with is a snow plow. Pretty pathetic attempt. the rest is BS
 

Inde : le Rafale Marine près d'embarquer sur le porte-avions INS Vikrant​

India: the Rafale Marine to embark on the INS Vikrant aircraft carrier

India could announce the selection of Dassault Aviation's Rafale Marine in March during Emmanuel Macron's visit to New Delhi.

The Indian Navy, which has eliminated the Boeing F-18 for technical reasons, has expressed an initial requirement for 26 aircraft to equip its "Made in India" INS Vikrant aircraft carrier. This aircraft will provide the Indians with a homogeneous fleet between the Rafale Air and the Rafale Marine. New Delhi, which ordered 36 Rafales in 2016, received the last aircraft in December, six years later. The two Indian Rafale squadrons have become fully operational.

Intense dialogue between Paris and New Delhi

As part of the fourth annual India-France dialogue on defence at the end of November in Delhi, the Minister of Defence Sébastien Lecornu met his Indian counterpart Raksha Mantri Shri Rajnath Singh. The two men discussed ways to strengthen maritime cooperation and increase the complexity of bilateral exercises. They also discussed defence industrial cooperation, including 'Make in India'. They talked about future cooperation and co-production opportunities. The two ministers agreed that the two countries' technical groups should meet in early 2023 to take forward key cooperation issues. The day before the dialogue, on 27 November, a high-level French delegation led by Sébastien Lecornu visited the aircraft carrier INS Vikrant. "This visit has helped consolidate the bilateral strategic relations between the two countries," said the Indian Ministry of Defence.

For his part, General Manoj Pande, Chief of Army Staff, visited France from 14 to 17 November 2022. During his four-day visit, he met with his counterpart and senior French military officials, including the Chief of Army Staff, to strengthen defence cooperation between the two countries. He also laid a wreath at the Neuve Chapelle Indian Memorial, which commemorates the sacrifice of 4,742 Indian soldiers during the First World War.
 
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www.firstpost.com

After IAF, now Indian Navy to get Rafale fighter jets

The Indian Navy has rejected the American jet F/A-18 Super Hornet and opted for the deal with Rafale. The deal for the Rafale M is being termed as a milestone in the relations between India and France
www.firstpost.com www.firstpost.com
Interestingly, the Indian Navy has rejected the American jet F/A-18 Super Hornet and opted for the deal with Rafale. The deal for the Rafale M is being termed as a milestone in the relations between India and France.
 
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marich01 said:
Wonder if SAMone refused to give open architecture to integrate local weapons?
Click to expand...
Apparently Indian government protested and openly criticized SAMone's(lol for this name🤣) move to upgrade and support Pakistani F-16 fleet. I was really worried about India choosing a US plane before that happened. But once Americans decided to play double games with us, that's where I knew that Rafale-M is coming.

Official decision is yet to come. Just hope that all these rumours are correct and Rafale-M is declared the winner.

Uncle SAMone can cry his tears @Innominate😉
 
Last edited:
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Rajput Lion said:
Apparently Indian government protested and openly criticized SAMone's(lol for this name🤣) move to upgrade and support Pakistani F-16 fleet. I was really worried about India choosing a US plane before that happened. But once Americans decided to play double games with us, that's where I knew that Rafale-M is coming.

Official decision is yet to come. Just hope that all these rumours are correct and Rafale-M is declared the winner.

Uncle SAMone can cry his tears @Innominate😉
Click to expand...
Is it confirmed that IN is going for Rafale?
 
Hydra said:
Is it confirmed that IN is going for Rafale?
Click to expand...
Nothing official as of yet, but rumour mill says so. Look at post #1252 of this thread.
Rajput Lion said:
Apparently Indian government protested and openly criticized SAMone's(lol for this name🤣) move to upgrade and support Pakistani F-16 fleet. I was really worried about India choosing a US plane before that happened. But once Americans decided to play double games with us, that's where I knew that Rafale-M is coming.

Official decision is yet to come. Just hope that all these rumours are correct and Rafale-M is declared the winner.

Uncle SAMone can cry his tears @Innominate😉
Click to expand...
@Innominate
 
Picdelamirand-oil said:

Inde : le Rafale Marine près d'embarquer sur le porte-avions INS Vikrant​

India: the Rafale Marine to embark on the INS Vikrant aircraft carrier

India could announce the selection of Dassault Aviation's Rafale Marine in March during Emmanuel Macron's visit to New Delhi.

The Indian Navy, which has eliminated the Boeing F-18 for technical reasons, has expressed an initial requirement for 26 aircraft to equip its "Made in India" INS Vikrant aircraft carrier. This aircraft will provide the Indians with a homogeneous fleet between the Rafale Air and the Rafale Marine. New Delhi, which ordered 36 Rafales in 2016, received the last aircraft in December, six years later. The two Indian Rafale squadrons have become fully operational.

Intense dialogue between Paris and New Delhi

As part of the fourth annual India-France dialogue on defence at the end of November in Delhi, the Minister of Defence Sébastien Lecornu met his Indian counterpart Raksha Mantri Shri Rajnath Singh. The two men discussed ways to strengthen maritime cooperation and increase the complexity of bilateral exercises. They also discussed defence industrial cooperation, including 'Make in India'. They talked about future cooperation and co-production opportunities. The two ministers agreed that the two countries' technical groups should meet in early 2023 to take forward key cooperation issues. The day before the dialogue, on 27 November, a high-level French delegation led by Sébastien Lecornu visited the aircraft carrier INS Vikrant. "This visit has helped consolidate the bilateral strategic relations between the two countries," said the Indian Ministry of Defence.

For his part, General Manoj Pande, Chief of Army Staff, visited France from 14 to 17 November 2022. During his four-day visit, he met with his counterpart and senior French military officials, including the Chief of Army Staff, to strengthen defence cooperation between the two countries. He also laid a wreath at the Neuve Chapelle Indian Memorial, which commemorates the sacrifice of 4,742 Indian soldiers during the First World War.
Click to expand...

26 could eventually climb to 50+. Is that enough to create an assembly line and push for another 36 from the IAF? This could kill MRFA.
 
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