Any possibility of F5 variant, especially the Radar of F5 seems to be interesting
Don't discuss the variants as of yet 
Its just La Tribune saying something and everyone else quoting "a French source".
Its just La Tribune saying something and everyone else quoting "a French source".
I dont think its a fluke news. During mmrca winner announcement also such reports came while announcing l1.Don't discuss the variants as of yet
Its just La Tribune saying something and everyone else quoting "a French source".
Dassault is a very particular company, which makes 70% civilian aircraft and 30% military aircraft (in the long term the current situation is biased due to the exceptional success of the Rafale) and the military activity mobilises the best resources and is the least profitable. So ideally Dassault would not want to export Rafales but only produce 11 per year for France for as long as possible while selling them at a high price. This would free up scarce resources for the more profitable civilian business.
But France believes that its military market is too small to make this activity profitable and that it must at least double this market through exports.
In the end, it is France that exports Rafales, not Dassault. Dassault is doing you the honour of selling you Rafales on its terms, because France is lobbying for them. If the negotiation fails, it doesn't care, especially now that its order book is too full.
Not yet.
F5 is not fully defined. It's always in a prospective track. Some more years (2 ?) to wait to have details.
Not necessary. The bird is now well known, the price is known even if there will be some increase. A first GtoG has been inked so it is easy to copy and paste.
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If my source is correct then deal for 80 Rafales is a done deal, all with make in India. 26 for Indian Navy and 54 for IAF. Just wait and watch. It's a batch deal for Rafales with every batch more capable and upgraded than the earlier....
As of December 31, 2022, the order book includes:
• 164 Rafale versus 86 Rafale as of December 31, 2021.
(Indonesia has placed orders only for 06 airframes till now).
164 Rafales at 24 airframes a year is 7 years. And a 33+ is just 5 years.
• 164 Rafale versus 86 Rafale as of December 31, 2021.
(Indonesia has placed orders only for 06 airframes till now).
164 Rafales at 24 airframes a year is 7 years. And a 33+ is just 5 years.
What about the MRFA tender then ? Would that be truncated to 60 units ? Plus the MII quotient ? Besides how's the price negotiations for these 54+26 units going to proceed ? Resident storyteller here made an interesting point earlier that the IGA we signed with France in 2016 is open ended which means the quantities are limitless , but you know how his pronouncements are . However , the prices finalized then were purely for export .If my source is correct then deal for 80 Rafales is a done deal, all with make in India. 26 for Indian Navy and 54 for IAF. Just wait and watch. It's a batch deal for Rafales with every batch more capable and upgraded than the earlier....
Besides if this is actually going the way you say it is , it won't happen this yr & not even next ( due to political reasons & the election next yr ) but in 2025 . If that's the case , the MRFA tender which's expected to float it's RFP mid year this year could also see price negotiations commence next year & possibly finalised in 2025 .
Ah , you mean there's an interceder here in the form of the French government . It's funny how the spiritual & the temporal world operate in eerily similar ways .
Well be that as it may , whether that discount comes from the interceder ( French government ) or the omnipotent almighty ( Dassault ) , we concern ourselves with the quantum of discount we've managed to wrangle.. Who extends it is immaterial .
Once the Rafale in India, any deal for another foreign medium fighter is over :
- They already have the ability to receive 36 more units without any base accomodation (and even more if needed as the France Saint Dizier exemple prove it, with 50+ jets on a single base).
- The indian specifics are already paid.
-IAF is very pleased with the bird.
-The road map for the bird is paved for the next 40+ years.
MRFA is made for bargain with Dassault.
If we went for 80 Rafales, what will happen to MRFA/mmrca2. Remember the original requirment in mmrca is 126 aircraft (and asper @randomradio a follow on order 60+ aircrafts, so that total number will be 189 or so)If my source is correct then deal for 80 Rafales is a done deal, all with make in India. 26 for Indian Navy and 54 for IAF. Just wait and watch. It's a batch deal for Rafales with every batch more capable and upgraded than the earlier....
Even with 54 additional Rafale, it will be only 90 mmrca type aircraft in IAF inventory.
No, dont be overconfident,no deal is confirmed for anyone in tendering these days for any one. Remember how you lost follow on irders for A380 from Emirates.
Without an upfront confirmed order of minimum 100 units delivered over 10 years, it's gonna be costly. Fixed costs will pile up over smaller number of airframes.
That's why I don't think the MRFA would be broken into 54 now and 60 later.
What MRFA? Rafale is MRFA. Why? F-16s and even F-18s are too old to be even considered as they're moving towards end of the life, Gripen E is just LCA mk2 which doesn't bring anything new on the table, mig35 and su35 excuse me no Russian fighters please, Eurofighter Typhoon to many chefs have spoiled the dish. That leaves only Rafales which will keep coming in batches 54 F4.2, and later maybe 36 F5 and upgradation of the current frames to F5.
The MRFA tender will linger on and believe me US will bring in F-35 to cause disruption and India may opt for it. Both to please US and the need for a true 5th generation fighters to even out the game with China which will be sporting 100s of 5th generation fighters by end of the decade. AMCA won't be ready till 2040 and we do need a true 5th generation fighter right now which is possible only with F-35. So the original requirement of 189 and more will be split between Rafale and F-35.
I was actually referring to some concrete credible information on this or some inside track . You're offering me your PoV & that's fine but then we all have our own PoVs .
We've seen that cost in this respect isn't a barrier at all . We're known to be penny wise & pound foolish . Blame it on any number of reasons. Isn't the MKI mfg by HAL a good example of it ? What's the fly away cost vs mfg in HAL ? More importantly what's the cost differential like ?
It's not my PoV it's a credible information from a very good source regarding 80 Rafales and make in India part which will be signed this year itself, rest is my PoV and is the obvious likely thing to happen. Uncle Sam is adamant to have strategic foothold and the only thing that can give them that is F-35 but it will happen Post 2025.
If he's bang on then even French submarines are coming through co-development route, whether SSK or SSN only time will tell..
So when's the agreement likely to be signed ?
Uncle Sam is adamant to have strategic foothold and the only thing that can give them that is F-35 but it will happen Post 2025.
If he's bang on then even French submarines are coming through co-development route, whether SSK or SSN only time will tell..