Multi-Role Carrier Borne Fighter For The Indian Navy - Updates & Discussions

What should we select?

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lcafanboy said:
If my source is correct then deal for 80 Rafales is a done deal, all with make in India. 26 for Indian Navy and 54 for IAF. Just wait and watch. It's a batch deal for Rafales with every batch more capable and upgraded than the earlier.... 🤗😊😊
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I think even 26+36 is enough for an assembly line. 80 jets can definitely bring in far more.
 
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Ankit Kumar said:
Without an upfront confirmed order of minimum 100 units delivered over 10 years, it's gonna be costly. Fixed costs will pile up over smaller number of airframes.

That's why I don't think the MRFA would be broken into 54 now and 60 later.
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The first 54 are not expected to have ToT, so it's following a different process. It's only the last 60 which will see ToT, not counting future orders beyond 114.
 
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Hydra said:
No, dont be overconfident,no deal is confirmed for anyone in tendering these days for any one. Remember how you lost follow on irders for A380 from Emirates.
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Not the same case.
Emirates wanted Airbus to create an A380 NEO. The market was not ready for that and the cost huge. After all the A380 was a market analysis failure and an Airbus board error (they wanted to show to Boeing they have a bigger dick than them... idiot )
 
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Ankit Kumar said:
As of December 31, 2022, the order book includes:
• 164 Rafale versus 86 Rafale as of December 31, 2021.

(Indonesia has placed orders only for 06 airframes till now).
164 Rafales at 24 airframes a year is 7 years. And a 33+ is just 5 years.
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A son friend of mine working in the purchase dept of Dassault said me a couple of weeks ago that Dassault was checking its suppliers if it will be possible to go to 5/month.... including after sale market.

ie : 3 in France (already agreed) + 1,5 in India ??? + 0,5 for spares. ???
 
Hello all. This question might have been asked before already as this subject has been discussed to death on IN boards but how difficult would it be to make the lifts bigger on the INS Vikrant? I mean, I would have thought it's merely a question of cutting off some bits on the hull and attaching some bits to the lift?

Why is this not the obvious solution?
 
Why the fascination with F4 versions? It's less relevant to us. Whatever we get will be built on top of ISE.
 
randomradio said:
Okay, the bring-back load is 4T for the Rafale and 4.5T for the SH.

If we consider the IN wants 1.2T of fuel for landing, then we are talking about ammo payloads of 2.8T for the Rafale and 3.3T for the SH. Assuming the IN can relax the Rafale's fuel requirement a bit 'cause it's a low consumer, then the weapons payload of either jet is pretty much the same. Everything above that has to be dropped anyway, so it doesn't matter what either jet took off with initially.

Excess fuel can be consumed with afterburner to bring it down to 1.2T or below.

So I am unable to understand the problem here. Both jets can only bring back 3T of weapons regardless of what they took off with. And with just a 4-4.5T payload, both jets are well below 23T.

Or is it possible the arrestor cable's limit is 17 or 18T or so, far less than SH's 19T? Then it would make sense.
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Finally the maximum Rafale landing weight on carrier is not 15 t as I thought but 15.7 t which brings the bring back to 15700 - 10196 = 5504 kg.

https://omnirole-rafale.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Fox-3-05.pdf Page 2 Carrier trial

In late 2002, the fighter participated in a three-week trial campaign on board the Charles de Gaulle to validate various weapon/external load configurations at heavy weights. For instance, Rafale M1 was catapulted at a weight of 21,4 tonnes (47,137 lb.) with a Scalp on the centreline pylon, two 2,000 litre drop tanks on the inboard wing pylons, and four Mica missiles at the wingtips and under the fuselage.

During another test, it was recovered at a weight of 15,7 tonnes (34,581 lb.) with six AASM 300 kg bombs (plus empty 1,250 litre drop tanks), clearly demonstrating its huge ‘bring back’ capability. Perhaps even more significant is the flight testing of the NG Recce Pod in an aircraft-carrier environment to make sure that the pod/Rafale airframe combination could withstand the shocks and vibrations associated with carrier operations.

The Rafale flight test programme is continuing at an unabated rate and it is expected that, in 2003, more than 450 Rafale sorties will have been carried out from Istres and Cazaux by the Air Force / Test Centre / Dassault integrated test team. In 2004, other important events will be recorded, such as the first firing of a Scalp pre-strategic cruise missile from a Rafale launched from the Charles de Gaulle carrier.
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Look at it this way in case of a conflict on either front these will operate from land in sync with the IAF, increasing the numbers. IN does operate mig29s from IAF bases in the north from time to time.

Frankly, if we end up in a conflict with China or Pakistan between now and 2035 we really don't need an aircraft carrier to go after PN or PLAN with their limited numbers in IOR. War would be limited to land borders
 
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Paro said:
Look at it this way in case of a conflict on either front these will operate from land in sync with the IAF, increasing the numbers. IN does operate mig29s from IAF bases in the north from time to time.

Frankly, if we end up in a conflict with China or Pakistan between now and 2035 we really don't need an aircraft carrier to go after PN or PLAN with their limited numbers in IOR. War would be limited to land borders
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If war broke out, you will not know to what extant it will spread. So instead of spreading assumptions, better be prepared for the worse.
 
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Paro said:
Look at it this way in case of a conflict on either front these will operate from land in sync with the IAF, increasing the numbers. IN does operate mig29s from IAF bases in the north from time to time.

Frankly, if we end up in a conflict with China or Pakistan between now and 2035 we really don't need an aircraft carrier to go after PN or PLAN with their limited numbers in IOR. War would be limited to land borders
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The numbers have to climb to 50+ for that to happen. A handful of jets can be put to use though.

CBGs are necessary to face both Pak and China. In fact China should start assembling 2 carriers simultaneously soon, which means by 2027 or so, they will induct a supercarrier every 2 years. So by 2035, they will very easily have 4 or 5 supercarriers apart from the first three. We will be lucky to have 3 small carriers of our own by then.
 
vstol Jockey said:
There is a thing called spot factor in aircraft Carriers. It is about the the space taken by an aircraft inside the hanger compared to the aircraft it is supposed to replace. Rafale due to its smaller size compared to F-18 has won on that account. compared to F-18, four additional Rafale-M can be carried inside the hanger.
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With the Rafale being practically unusable on Vikramaditya, we are stuck with the Mig-29Ks. So that's a problem.
 

Is Rafale M the final choice for the Indian Navy – Deal expected to be announced soon​


The Rafale M is a fighter of the fourth generation that features a delta wing and twin engines. This fighter jet can also launch nuclear assaults as it comes with its semi-stealth capabilities; however, it is highly improbable that the US will give its F-18 Super Hornet permission to carry out such operations. And, “India will lose its strategic autonomy if it buys aircraft from the United States,” explained an officer who wished to remain anonymous.
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