On a lighter note, Jaguar ke liye F124 engines materialise nahi hue, aur hm
Trans:- F124s didn't materialise for Jaguars, and we are thinking about 414s.
Trans:- F124s didn't materialise for Jaguars, and we are thinking about 414s.
Lol. I just love how "Paddy" is in your head just about every post. Your obsession with him is very gay but at least you're trying to sound more grown up unfortunately for you I aint gonna let you. You will break again and throw another tantrum for all to see and then boycott the forum again.
On a lighter note, Jaguar ke liye F124 engines materialise nahi hue, aur hm
Trans:- F124s didn't materialise for Jaguars, and we are thinking about 414s.
I think his contention is that between Lca mk1, mkk1A, Mk2, Tedbf and Amca, we ll order more than 1000 engine s.
So more likely GE & USA comply for ToT.
Safran Or RR collaboration won't have such massive order book.
Seems like GE hold advantage in engine supply like that of Rafale holding in Fighter sales.
Remember Hellfire tweeting about USA won't part with F414 without atleast MRCBF in their pocket.
I guess it's engine tech help that ll determine MRCBF selection.
Those 1000 + engines include MLU . If we clinch the deal with RR or SAFRAN those numbers will be less than half.
Anybody thinking GE would contribute towards total ToT including know why & know how is talking thru their hat . They've never done so to their treaty allies with whom they share much more in common & with whom they definitely have more intimate & more profitable defense & commercial ties & you guys actually think they'd give India special treatment. I mean come on guys, will you?
I doubt we can expect full ToT with know whys & hows with RR or SAFRAN too but in today's market we're more valuable to them in terms of business than we are to the US.
Besides we aren't looking for GE level collaborations with either RR or SAFRAN. Wr can get that with the latter 2 anytime or we can develop it in house via Kaveri in the next 10 yrs. We're casting our nets wider looking for next gen engine tech - the kind which'd go into the FCAS & Tempest coz in the next 2-3 decades perhaps earlier , this 414 level tech would become as obsolete as piston engines when jet engines came online.
For us to develop true ACE / VCE , we would easily take 2- 3 decades & billions of USD in R&D with no guarantee of the results.
The engine order is not about money, it's about clout. This is probably their only chance to get a strategic deal done before the end of the decade. Anything else in the future will be far too muted to matter.
If it was about money, then not giving us ToT will get them more money.
MRCBF is also irrelevant to this deal. Even if we choose to buy only non-American stuff from here on, they will still want to get the engine deal done rather than give it up to France.
Since the engine JV is for full ToT and IP, then there's no harm is providing ToT for less advanced tech like the F414 going into the LCA, AMCA and TEDBF. It should actually give them an advantage for the main engine deal.
The Americans have basically surrendered to the situation. "India is gonna get an engine whether we want it to happen or not, so why not our engine?" is their play now.
Without the engine deal, American presence in the Indian market will only last 10 years or less.
Probably because engine tech is older, they could offer it to us.
But then F16/18 wasn't offered in way that would have satisfied us even though they are at end of it's evolution.
Until some official source confirms or we sign the deal, nothing is sure.
Hopefully we ll see signature of MRCBF / announcement of winner within a year or two.
I agree if Americans want to enter in our fighter market, there wouldn't be any other better choice.
They do have other choices. All those "not-for-export" products...
The engine is merely the cheapest cost they could pay for a long term relationship and comes with the most benefits.
They'd offer partial ToT in manufacturing. It won't even be equivalent to what the Russians offered us with the jet engine for the MKI.
If you're referring to the MRFA they don't suit our requirements although I'd say had we moved in 2016 as soon as the MMRCA deal was cancelled for a G2G with the US for the F-16 / F-21 if not for anything else but only as replacements for the squadrons we were retiring , I'd have understood it , however sub optimal the solution.
In the event the GoI / MoD / IAF had other plans .
Agreed.
I'm guessing the decision would come in a couple of months & the IGA before the end of next yr.
hummm...... what about CFM international for exemple ? more than 35000 engines delivered....They are not good at partnering with others.
As said my our died French President Chirac : "promises only bind those who listen to them".
Specially with USA.
Translation:
As the deceased French President Chirac used to say:
"Promises only commit those who listen to them." Especially with the USA.
It's up to the US entirely. If they don't agree, then they will lose. In any case, considering the F414 requirement for LCA, TEDBF and AMCA is at least for 450 engines, the Americans will be happy just selling the engines with the originally agreed 60% ToT.
The Air force with Indian requirements paid $160m flyaway and the Super hornet lll would be around $80m flyaway and a better plane. I still voted for the Rafale though. Why run a small fleet of another type? Just more issues.
We've been debating which deal is better for a long time. Now is the time to close the deal; dragging it out will not serve the purpose.
We are all looking it the wrong way.
Just after the defence budget GOI had announced that 68% of CAPEX will be reserved for domestic Procurement.
That leaves only 32% CAPEX available for imports.