Operation Sindoor: India Strikes Terroist Camps Inside Pakitsan

jk007 said:
If this happens, Modi will loose lot of goodwill.

But - I think Modi / Doval thinks, seeing PA in weak state BLA & TTP will get aggressive. Would you agree?

Also - has india responded to ceasefire violations? Or kept quiet?

Paaakkkiiiis already thinking they won
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Let's get real. India has no actual political or economic clout to erase a country off of the planet.

And we most definitely do not have the power to remove a country that others want around in order to suppress us. Only Israel wants Pak gone, the rest are scared of India.

As I've been saying for years, we need 3 things to be able to do what we want. A large enough economy is the default. But apart from that, we need energy independence (15 years), food independence, and technology independence (15 years, military and civilian). We are only good on food. The Russians can do whatever they want because they have all 3. Had they had a large enough economy, they would have been a superpower today. The Chinese have only technology, but will get energy in 10 years.

Someone's told Trump to stop India, and he did. And we don't have the power to say no.
 
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RationalGuy said:
We will have Astra mk2 and hopefully LSP of Gandiva by 2030, but the real threat is J35 with PL15 which Pakistan will have by 2030. We NEED an answer to that and I'm not confident that Rafale is a suitable answer to it. Some people were talking about Rafale F5 but it seems it's coming after 2030? By then Pakistan will have J35.
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If such a short war or skirmish happens before in between now and 2030? what we will do? Why not buy a 100 odd R=37s or AIM260?

I don't understand why the IAF does not plan for these short skirmishes and rather remain focused on squadrons count?

In my opinion shooting down enemy jets is more important than creating some craters on the enemy airbase runways which anyways cam be fixed in few hours. Besides even cheaper jets cost a 30-40 million dollars a piece which cannot be replaced for months. A destroyed airbase can be made re-operational within a few days but if jets are gone, then they are gone.
 
Saaho said:
If you think about it. For past 3 days it felt as if we were fighting a near peer level adverory. Thats what is wrong. And once this fifth gen fighter shows up, it will feel like fighting a much more sophosticated enemy.
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The limited nature of the conflict as well as the air nature focus favors Pakistan's China air force as they get high tech stuff for subsidized prices.

Not saying the Rafale wasn't facing adverse political conditions, but still. The J-10C is no joke. It's competitive to the Rafale, and that's all that really matters.

Being better, while in the same generation counts for a lot less. And it's not even clear how much better or even worse it is.
 
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Saaho said:
If you think about it. For past 3 days it felt as if we were fighting a near peer level adverory. Thats what is wrong. And once this fifth gen fighter shows up, it will feel like fighting a much more sophosticated enemy.
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Historically, Pakistan has always been superior / peer / near-peer. In 1971, Pakistan had a lot of stuff which were technologically superior to India. However, we have always prevailed with better training and competent military leadership. Even this time, we spanked Pak black and blue. I agree that the 5th gen thing will be a source of trouble, but, that's not the biggest concern. Even if we beg, borrow or steal and get into a position where Pak is way below us technologically, it will still not solve the core problem - the handling of external countries and narrative during a conflict. Pakistan is an existential problem for us and it it on us to solve it. Russia was against the entire world when it started the fight against Ukraine - it did not give in.

Indian leadership is inherently weak when it comes to being bossed around by US - this is something which has to change, only then will any tech improvements in our military be of any use, otherwise, you can have the best weapons and training but without the will and strength of the leader, it's useless as has been proven again this time.

I am really sorry, but we just let Pak off the hook - we could have ensured that Pak's Navy and Airforce capabilities are degraded beyond repair this time and set an example of what will happen if and when the next Pahelgam happens. That would have been the strongest deterrence against future Pak sponsored terror. The would have known that without their navy (already non-existent) and Airforce, they will be sitting ducks waiting to be blown out of the water.
 
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Saaho said:
More importantly.... India could not establish an air superemacy... even it its own airspace. Thats ... frightening. To say the least. Pakistan's air force should not have been possible to go anywhere near our airspace.
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Yes Pakistani Airforce was operating over my house for last 3 days.... it's over for India... Sab khatam ho gaya.
 
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Saaho said:
If you think about it. For past 3 days it felt as if we were fighting a near peer level adverory. Thats what is wrong. And once this fifth gen fighter shows up, it will feel like fighting a much more sophosticated enemy.
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The Chinese are making a country with an economy smaller than a city in our country be near peer and soon superior pear wtr to air power. We must not only match Pak but find a way to repay this gift that the Chinese have given us.

The US also thought that giving shiny toys to South Vietnam or Afghanistan Republic will make them hold back their enemy. They were mistaken and the Chinese will get a slap on their face in due time as well.
 
Hydra said:
@randomradio now Pakistan knows where its military tech now stands. I think this will allow them to modernise military. More importantly,they may even go back to US/western side.
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If Pak is to fix itself, the first institution and the last institution that needs fixing is the PA. So rest assured, nothing's happening on that front. They will just beg more shamelessly from now on. They have made their bed, they gotta lie in it.

Modernizing a military is one thing, but modernizing enough to fight India is a whole different story. As I've always said, warfare will soon belong only to the rich. In 5-10 years, only countries with a vast civilian-military industrial and financial ecosystem can fight wars at the highest level.

Take our forces, for example. The services are integrated, but there's no tri-services integration yet. Just that alone was enough to pummel Pak into oblivion. What will happen when we establish a proper space presence and full tri-services synergy like the US and China? Then there are whole new industries coming up that require civilians to take the lead, quantum, biotech, nanotech, AI, medical engineering, space etc in order to deliver byproducts to the military. You won't be able to buy these technologies with money.

Pakistan's gonna have to develop each industry all on its own to compete with India's military. Good luck to them.
 
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randomradio said:
If Pak is to fix itself, the first institution and the last institution that needs fixing is the PA. So rest assured, nothing's happening on that front. They will just beg more shamelessly from now on. They have made their bed, they gotta lie in it.

Modernizing a military is one thing, but modernizing enough to fight India is a whole different story. As I've always said, warfare will soon belong only to the rich. In 5-10 years, only countries with a vast civilian-military industrial and financial ecosystem can fight wars at the highest level.

Take our forces, for example. The services are integrated, but there's no tri-services integration yet. Just that alone was enough to pummel Pak into oblivion. What will happen when we establish a proper space presence and full tri-services synergy like the US and China? Then there are whole new industries coming up that require civilians to take the lead, quantum, biotech, nanotech, AI, medical engineering, space etc in order to deliver byproducts to the military. You won't be able to buy these technologies with money.

Pakistan's gonna have to develop each industry all on its own to compete with India's military. Good luck to them.
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Situation will always remain that very rich will give toys to hungry poors. That is not going to change ever.
 
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Defc0n said:
Historically, Pakistan has always been superior / peer / near-peer. In 1971, Pakistan had a lot of stuff which were technologically superior to India. However, we have always prevailed with better training and competent military leadership. Even this time, we spanked Pak black and blue. I agree that the 5th gen thing will be a source of trouble, but, that's not the biggest concern. Even if we beg, borrow or steal and get into a position where Pak is way below us technologically, it will still not solve the core problem - the handling of external countries and narrative during a conflict. Pakistan is an existential problem for us and it it on us to solve it. Russia was against the entire world when it started the fight against Ukraine - it did not give in.

Indian leadership is inherently weak when it comes to being bossed around by US - this is something which has to change, only then will any tech improvements in our military be of any use, otherwise, you can have the best weapons and training but without the will and strength of the leader, it's useless as has been proven again this time.

I am really sorry, but we just let Pak off the hook - we could have ensured that Pak's Navy and Airforce capabilities are degraded beyond repair this time and set an example of what will happen if and when the next Pahelgam happens. That would have been the strongest deterrence against future Pak sponsored terror. The would have known that without their navy (already non-existent) and Airforce, they will be sitting ducks waiting to be blown out of the water.
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Tbh Russian economy may be small but they have like 8,000 nukes and were historically a superpower. I don't think we can be compared with them even now. We are still an emerging country and need western investment to grow our economy. Suppose a full scale war did happen. Our semiconductor plants which are upcoming in Gujarat would be seriously threatened. If even one of them were damaged then semiconductor companies who are already pretty reluctant to come to India would never ever come here. India bowed down to external pressure due to the present realities of its economic and political power and influence. Even communist Vietnam went seeking help from IMF and World Bank barely a few years after they defeated the US and South Vietnam. Only when our economy is robust as randomradio mentioned along with energy/food/technology security can we do whatever we want.
 
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Defc0n said:
Historically, Pakistan has always been superior / peer / near-peer. In 1971, Pakistan had a lot of stuff which were technologically superior to India. However, we have always prevailed with better training and competent military leadership. Even this time, we spanked Pak black and blue. I agree that the 5th gen thing will be a source of trouble, but, that's not the biggest concern. Even if we beg, borrow or steal and get into a position where Pak is way below us technologically, it will still not solve the core problem - the handling of external countries and narrative during a conflict. Pakistan is an existential problem for us and it it on us to solve it. Russia was against the entire world when it started the fight against Ukraine - it did not give in.

Indian leadership is inherently weak when it comes to being bossed around by US - this is something which has to change, only then will any tech improvements in our military be of any use, otherwise, you can have the best weapons and training but without the will and strength of the leader, it's useless as has been proven again this time.

I am really sorry, but we just let Pak off the hook - we could have ensured that Pak's Navy and Airforce capabilities are degraded beyond repair this time and set an example of what will happen if and when the next Pahelgam happens. That would have been the strongest deterrence against future Pak sponsored terror. The would have known that without their navy (already non-existent) and Airforce, they will be sitting ducks waiting to be blown out of the water.
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I think Modi is concerned about nuclear war.
 
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