Pakistan AirForce : Updates & Discussions

[Rajput Lion]

Thank you for saying that it's not hyperbole. Otherwise, we would have been confused.

Our Gazwa neighbours have recently claimed that their JF-17 shot down multiple Qatari Rafales in an exercise. This proves their obsession regarding Indian Rafales.

Ideally, they would have liked Gripen-E to counter our Rafale, but since it isn't an option, so they're betting big on J-10CE and PL-15 combo to counter our Rafale + Meteor combo.


Their Gazi ego can't fathom weak Baniya/Brahmin Hindu getting ahead of superior Momins. Fact.

 

[Hydra]

Nothing bad happen that day as far as the MKi's air combat goes.

Oh, you sh!t break speak loudly this.

 

[LX1111]

They are most worried about Rafale + Meteor combo. 36 Rafales are good enough to wipe entire PAF out. Not hyperbole, IMO.

You're so cocky. Changing the Rafale to an F-35 might work,

Man, you are as annoying as rectum ache. Everywhere coming up with feb27.

Nothing bad happen that day as far as the MKi's air combat goes.

MKI's were defending a strike package of 24 aircraft. According to rule of engagement they cannot attack the package unless they are fired upon or crossed the predefined geographical boundary. Thats why F-16s fired their BVRs at max range which was not intended to shoot down MKI but to disengage.

Strike package didnt cross the boundary and no location where hit. Because of the presence of MKI and Mig-21 QRF.

, most people see the result is that India lost two planes and Pakistan was unscathed

 

[Ashwin]

most people see the result is that India lost two planes and Pakistan was unscathed

Most people who know history and geopolitics see India rewriting rules, thus altering the overall balance of power in those few days.

India abandoned its restrained behavior and launched an attack in the heart of a nuclear nation in response to a terrorist attack by a non-state actor. This marks a monumental change in the region. One could argue that today we are reaping the benefits, as the new equation has pushed our terrorist-harboring neighbor to rethink the consequences.

In the pure military sense, the Indian air force was able to inflict damage and defend successfully. During the strike inside Pakistan, India had the advantage as the attacker. The next day, Pakistan had the same advantage.

End of the day, military is a political instrument to change the balance of power, influence outcomes, and protect national interests.

Simple-minded individuals perceive the world in binary. That is their prerogative, but the world operates in a complex manner.

 

[Rajput Lion]

You're so cocky. Changing the Rafale to an F-35 might work,

Nope. Rafale with Meteor is a serious threat to PAF and even PLAAF. There is nothing cocky about stating facts as it is.

, most people see the result is that India lost two planes and Pakistan was unscathed

2 planes? We lost just one Mig and destroyed one F-16. That trade off proved quite good for us. 2 MKIs on CAP stopped whole 8 strong F-16 fleet was also very impressive.

 

[Sathya]

Nope. Rafale with Meteor is a serious threat to PAF and even PLAAF. There is nothing cocky about stating facts as it is.

2 planes? We lost just one Mig and destroyed one F-16. That trade off proved quite good for us. 2 MKIs on CAP stopped whole 8 strong F-16 fleet was also very impressive.

He probably included the helicopter.

 

[LX1111]

Nope. Rafale with Meteor is a serious threat to PAF and even PLAAF. There is nothing cocky about stating facts as it is

Meteor missiles are indeed the farthest range missiles in the world today, but this cannot be called an absolute threat. They still have obvious defects in the guidance head and data link. Moreover, for India and Pakistan, Pakistan's AIM120 and PL12 had a significant range advantage before the meteor missiles arrived. Can Pakistan easily annihilate the Indian Air Force at this time?

 

[LX1111]

2 planes? We lost just one Mig and destroyed one F-16. That trade off proved quite good for us. 2 MKIs on CAP stopped whole 8 strong F-16 fleet was also very impressive

From an outsider's perspective, it is unreasonable for India to only deploy two Su-30 aircraft to respond to Pakistan's counterattack after India has bombed the Pakistani border. Therefore, the Indian Air Force and the media have collectively lied, but this is not the case.

 

[LX1111]

Most people who know history and geopolitics see India rewriting rules, thus altering the overall balance of power in those few days.

India abandoned its restrained behavior and launched an attack in the heart of a nuclear nation in response to a terrorist attack by a non-state actor. This marks a monumental change in the region. One could argue that today we are reaping the benefits, as the new equation has pushed our terrorist-harboring neighbor to rethink the consequences.

In the pure military sense, the Indian air force was able to inflict damage and defend successfully. During the strike inside Pakistan, India had the advantage as the attacker. The next day, Pakistan had the same advantage.

End of the day, military is a political instrument to change the balance of power, influence outcomes, and protect national interests.

Simple-minded individuals perceive the world in binary. That is their prerogative, but the world operates in a complex manner.

You said that the understanding of the situation on that day was all based on speculation. Neither India nor Pakistan have released all the information on that day. As a Chinese, India used advanced Israeli bombs to bomb the Pakistani border on the first day, but due to a height setting error, all the targets were missed. This is a satellite image released by an Australian agency that can be confirmed. The next day, In Pakistan's counterattack, due to interception by the Indian Air Force, Pakistan released bombs in advance, but an Indian Air Force aircraft was shot down by F16 due to communication interference,
I completely deny all your speculations about the situation. The border confrontation between India and Pakistan is still ongoing, but due to Pakistan's better organization, it has a slight advantage

 

[randomradio]

From an outsider's perspective, it is unreasonable for India to only deploy two Su-30 aircraft to respond to Pakistan's counterattack after India has bombed the Pakistani border. Therefore, the Indian Air Force and the media have collectively lied, but this is not the case.

India had 4 aircraft in the air, 2 MKIs and 2 M2000s. Only that many aircraft are necessary for CAP. The rest takeoff as the OPFOR builds up.

If you have too many aircraft in the air for CAP, then you will lose the initiative.

When you are defending, the goal is not to kill the enemy but to force them to withdraw. Even if there are no kills, it's still a victory because planning and conducting a strike mission is extremely resource heavy in terms of time, equipment and manpower that even a mission kill is a major success. The attacker has to spend hours and then just return home without doing anything and then spend many more hours figuring out why their attack failed, that alone is a victory.

 

[randomradio]

You said that the understanding of the situation on that day was all based on speculation. Neither India nor Pakistan have released all the information on that day. As a Chinese, India used advanced Israeli bombs to bomb the Pakistani border on the first day, but due to a height setting error, all the targets were missed. This is a satellite image released by an Australian agency that can be confirmed. The next day, In Pakistan's counterattack, due to interception by the Indian Air Force, Pakistan released bombs in advance, but an Indian Air Force aircraft was shot down by F16 due to communication interference,
I completely deny all your speculations about the situation. The border confrontation between India and Pakistan is still ongoing, but due to Pakistan's better organization, it has a slight advantage

All targets except one were hit in one target area, Balakot. There were at least a total of 3 target areas, different towns. And details of only 1 were released by Pakistan. India has also not revealed the targets that were hit. In fact, we know about Balakot only because Pakistan said they were attacked.

As for satellite images, the target holes are too small to be visible on conventional satellite imagery. The IAF used low yield fragmentation warheads so all the damage is inside the buildings. It was done this way so Pakistan can pretend India never attacked them. Pakistan's public outcry actually came as a surprise to India.

And lol at Pakistan's better organization. Even they don't believe that.

There's something else you are not aware of, the Balakot attack and Pakistan's response the next day were not the only things that happened. Stuff continued happening on the ground for many more weeks after that.

 

[Rajput Lion]

Meteor missiles are indeed the farthest range missiles in the world today, but this cannot be called an absolute threat. They still have obvious defects in the guidance head and data link. Moreover, for India and Pakistan, Pakistan's AIM120 and PL12 had a significant range advantage before the meteor missiles arrived. Can Pakistan easily annihilate the Indian Air Force at this time?

AIM-120C5 did gave PAF advantage that day over IAF's R-77 and MICA. That's why Meteor is a game-changer.

From an outsider's perspective, it is unreasonable for India to only deploy two Su-30 aircraft to respond to Pakistan's counterattack after India has bombed the Pakistani border. Therefore, the Indian Air Force and the media have collectively lied, but this is not the case.

2 MKIs and 2 M-2000 were on CAP on different sectors. And they stopped a massive PAF OCA, is a testimony to IAF's prowess.

And you are mistaken. IAF isn't Jihadi PAF or communist PLAAF. They don't lie. Period.

 

[Rajput Lion]

He probably included the helicopter.

Nope. Our Chinese friend believes in Jihadi propaganda where they claim to have shot down 2 Migs first and then changed their tone to shooting one Mig-21 and IAF's crown jewel, the MKI. Lol

 

[LX1111]

2 MKIs and 2 M-2000 were on CAP on different sectors. And they stopped a massive PAF OCA, is a testimony to IAF's prowess.

And you are mistaken. IAF isn't Jihadi PAF or communist PLAAF. They don't lie. Period.

Does that mean India only maintains four fighter jets in the air, knowing that Pakistan will launch a large-scale counterattack? Do you think it's reasonable?
Saying that the Indian army won't lie is even more of a joke. Before China released photos of the Galwan Valley, which Indian believed that over 40 Indian soldiers were captured? Has the Indian army ever mentioned that India was a soldier captured?

 

[LX1111]

As for satellite images, the target holes are too small to be visible on conventional satellite imagery. The IAF used low yield fragmentation warheads so all the damage is inside the buildings. It was done this way so Pakistan can pretend India never attacked them. Pakistan's public outcry actually came as a surprise to India

Do you think it is possible that four 2000 pound bombs will only damage the interior of the building without damaging its exterior? This is not a reinforced concrete fortress, it's just an ordinary iron house. Now in Gaza, Israel's MK84 can easily destroy a tall building, while four bombs of the same weight can only blast four small holes?

 

[LX1111]

All targets except one were hit in one target area, Balakot. There were at least a total of 3 target areas, different towns. And details of only 1 were released by Pakistan. India has also not revealed the targets that were hit. In fact, we know about Balakot only because Pakistan said they were attacked.

Since you have said it all, the only reason we know about Barak is because Pakistan has announced him. So how do you know about the other two?

 

[randomradio]

Does that mean India only maintains four fighter jets in the air, knowing that Pakistan will launch a large-scale counterattack? Do you think it's reasonable?

Yes, it's how it's normally done across the world. 4 jets = 16 BVR missiles. An OCA fighter sweep is also just 4-8 jets, so there's enough missiles on 4 jets to stop the fighter sweep or even the main strike formation before reinforcements arrive.

Saying that the Indian army won't lie is even more of a joke. Before China released photos of the Galwan Valley, which Indian believed that over 40 Indian soldiers were captured? Has the Indian army ever mentioned that India was a soldier captured?

Yes. India immediately released information that we lost 22 men and 10 were captured.

China denies detaining Indian soldiers after reports say 10 freed

Chinese foreign ministry says it never detained Indian soldiers after media reports said 10 of them were released.

www.aljazeera.com

19 Jun 2020
China has said it never detained Indian soldiers after Indian media reports said 10 of them were released after they were captured in a high-altitude border clash in the Himalayas which also left at least 20 Indian soldiers dead.

It was China that lied about capturing Indian soldiers early on. We also know that among the 10 of them also had some top field officers, 4 of them, including a Lt. Col. A Chinese brigadier general convinced them to surrender after some of the Indian soldiers reached the Chinese camp and were surrounded by a few hundred Chinese soldiers.

What you don't know is the Indian soldiers killed nearly 50 PLA troopers, and many more were so badly injured that they died of wounds later. We also fished out and handed 20+ Chinese bodies to the PLA over the next few days after their bodies floated downstream. And we had also captured 200 soldiers which we exchanged later, along with the 10 Indian troops.

The problem is the PLA sent 19, 20-year-old children from the plains against much older men with combat experience who live in the mountains. Which is why the casualty rate makes sense.

In India it's a legal requirement to reveal casualty figures.

 

[randomradio]

Do you think it is possible that four 2000 pound bombs will only damage the interior of the building without damaging its exterior? This is not a reinforced concrete fortress, it's just an ordinary iron house. Now in Gaza, Israel's MK84 can easily destroy a tall building, while four bombs of the same weight can only blast four small holes?

The bombs we used were not 2000 pound ones, they were "blast fragmentation" bombs with only 160 pounds of explosives. This bomb only destroys organic matter, like people, it doesn't affect the building or only slightly affects it based on how much explosives it has. It mainly contains iron pellets that shoot out like bullets and cut people into pieces.

 

[randomradio]

Since you have said it all, the only reason we know about Barak is because Pakistan has announced him. So how do you know about the other two?

We know the names of the towns that were hit. They didn't mention what they actually hit.

All you need to know about Balakot that IAF airstrike destroyed

Balakot is said to have several terror training camps. According to sources, the Jaish-e-Mohammed terror outfit used to operate from the region.

www.indiatoday.in

Feb 26, 2019
Sources said terrorist launchpads in Balakot, Chakothi, and Muzaffarabad were completely destroyed in the IAF air strikes, and that Jaish-e-Mohammed control rooms were also destroyed.

So it's not just 3 main targets, but also unnamed HQs.

The reason why Balakot is more significant is because it's in sovereign Pak territory, whereas the other targets were in disputed territory. It's the first time in history when one nuclear power conducted air strikes on the sovereign territory of another nuclear power.

 

[Ashwin]

You said that the understanding of the situation on that day was all based on speculation. Neither India nor Pakistan have released all the information on that day. As a Chinese, India used advanced Israeli bombs to bomb the Pakistani border on the first day, but due to a height setting error, all the targets were missed. This is a satellite image released by an Australian agency that can be confirmed. The next day, In Pakistan's counterattack, due to interception by the Indian Air Force, Pakistan released bombs in advance, but an Indian Air Force aircraft was shot down by F16 due to communication interference,
I completely deny all your speculations about the situation. The border confrontation between India and Pakistan is still ongoing, but due to Pakistan's better organization, it has a slight advantage

None of what I said is speculation. Both India and Pakistan have released information on that day from their respective narratives. There are multiple interviews and even official videos available on the same.

Even Pakistan agrees that an attack was carried out by the Indian Air Force inside Pakistani airspace. Otherwise, it would not make sense to hold a press conference and conduct a show of force counterattack the very next day. That is simply common sense. You have to remember the history of the "surgical strike" conducted by the Indian special forces inside Pakistan-occupied Kashmir a few years ago, which Pakistan denied even after video evidence was released. They could have done the same if nothing had been hit.

Border confrontations have been occurring since the partition. Peace is measured relatively, so we are currently in one of the most peaceful periods due to the shift in the balance of power.