People's Liberation Army Air Force : News & Discussions

[randomradio]

In the next 5 years they definitely would have over 500 J20s(that too with advance supercruising engines) at the rate they are acquiring them.

But then India's cutting edge SAM acquisitions and strength would also increase by multifold. And Himalayas shall always create more problems for the attacking Chinese than us.

But increasing J20 numbers is a definite worry for us. From 2002 to 2017 we enjoyed tech superiority over the Chinese thanks to MKI. But now I am not too sure even with Rafale acquisition. We need at least 50-100 5th gen planes in the next 5/7 years to counter this Chinese 5th gen threat. Looks like our AMCA would only come online post 2030. So what are our options? Su57 or F35!

Nothing new's gonna happen in the next 2 years, and in the next 5, all we will have is jets on paper. If the Chinese attack us in the next few years, then there's no time for anything new. I suppose the forces have assumed that any war between the two will be a short war in 1 sector, like Ladakh, so we have enough for that. At best, we can hope the French can transfer another squadron from their stocks as attrition replacements.

In the long run, I don't have any real ideas apart from MRFA and AMCA. At least we know that by calling Rafale 4.5th gen, the IAF Chief has made a clear public distinction between 4.5 and 5, so I won't be surprised if a Su-57 v. F-35/NGAD contest happens. My personal AMCA timeline is 2040+, so I feel we need something as a stop gap between 2030 and 2040 that's not MRFA.

 

[Rajput Lion]

Nothing new's gonna happen in the next 2 years, and in the next 5, all we will have is jets on paper. If the Chinese attack us in the next few years, then there's no time for anything new. I suppose the forces have assumed that any war between the two will be a short war in 1 sector, like Ladakh, so we have enough for that. At best, we can hope the French can transfer another squadron from their stocks as attrition replacements.

Yeah, maybe except new LCA MK1A not too much would happen on IAF front(more MRSAMs maybe too) in the next few years. But it frustrates me to no end that after having superiority over the Chinese from 2002 to 2017, we've now lost our edge against them. Rafales and MKIs are good enough to protect our home turf, but none of them would be as survival inside enemy territory like a dedicated 5th gen.

China may use their J-20 to take our AWACS/AEWACS and that would be very bad for us. China also has perfected team work between J-20 and J-16 to do heavy damage to enemy C&C centers. We need a dedicated 5th gen plane to stop them doing it.

In the long run, I don't have any real ideas apart from MRFA and AMCA. At least we know that by calling Rafale 4.5th gen, the IAF Chief has made a clear public distinction between 4.5 and 5, so I won't be surprised if a Su-57 v. F-35/NGAD contest happens. My personal AMCA timeline is 2040+, so I feel we need something as a stop gap between 2030 and 2040 that's not MRFA.

2040?? I hope we induct AMCA by the start of next decade otherwise we are really effed.

NGAD?? That would be awesome but I doubt US would allow its sales to us. Best option is SU57MKI or SU60MKI with Indian radar, IRST, EW and other sensors. Our FGFA was exactly like that except the IP part. Get TOT of AL51 and put that engine in SU30MKI. Now that's a legit Super Flanker


F-35? Last option. Rafale F4/F5 is much better option that this.

 

[Innominate]

Not yet. But in 2-3 years, they will be. They have jets, but not the experienced pilots yet.

Against India, they need more numbers, and against the USAF, they need numbers and tech.

Once they get to 500, at least the IAF will most definitely be in trouble. By then, they will have the numbers, tech and pilots. Let's just hope our new ADGE will even the odds.

I'm hoping it will take at least 5+ years for the PLAAF to get expert J-20 pilots.

Lol. IAF is already in deep trouble NOW. Chicoms have the numbers, tech and stealth on their side compared to IAF.

 

[randomradio]

Yeah, maybe except new LCA MK1A not too much would happen on IAF front(more MRSAMs maybe too) in the next few years. But it frustrates me to no end that after having superiority over the Chinese from 2002 to 2017, we've now lost our edge against them. Rafales and MKIs are good enough to protect our home turf, but none of them would be as survival inside enemy territory like a dedicated 5th gen.

MMRCA's failure is what changed things, or we would have stayed ahead.

Rafale can operate on their turf.

China may use their J-20 to take our AWACS/AEWACS and that would be very bad for us. China also has perfected team work between J-20 and J-16 to do heavy damage to enemy C&C centers. We need a dedicated 5th gen plane to stop them doing it.

It's a major threat, the Chinese ability to kill our force multipliers. But we can also do the same to them, especially if Brahmos M becomes available over the next 3 years or so.

2040?? I hope we induct AMCA by the start of next decade otherwise we are really effed.

2027 first flight + 9 years = 2036 for AMCA Mk1s IOC. Don't get your hopes up.

NGAD?? That would be awesome but I doubt US would allow its sales to us. Best option is SU57MKI or SU60MKI with Indian radar, IRST, EW and other sensors. Our FGFA was exactly like that except the IP part. Get TOT of AL51 and put that engine in SU30MKI. Now that's a legit Super Flanker

It's either NGAD or Su-57. The F-35 can't defeat the J-20. I agree that NGAD won't be available to the IAF, so the US won't be an option. We don't need a large order, at best 40 or so, so the customisation will most likely be limited to what we did with Rafale.

Anyway, I'm not very sure about the possibility of the induction of these jets. It's possible the IAF believes the MKI MLU, Rafale/MRFA and LCA Mk2 in combination with stealth drones should be enough until AMCA comes in. The IAF is also interested in dropping down to just 4 types.

I'm actually looking forward to see what sort of stealth drones the French and Americans are cooking up for the Rafale and SH.

 

[Innominate]

The F-35 can't defeat the J-20.

This is why you are not taken seriously. Luckily for IAF they are not as deluded as you and recognize the deep sht they are in.

 

[randomradio]

Lol. IAF is already in deep trouble NOW. Chicoms have the numbers, tech and stealth on their side compared to IAF.

It's not that simple. When I said tech, I actually meant the main engine. They need the new engine to surpass the limitations of the plateau. Until then, the Chinese need 2 or 3 times the numbers we have deployed to make a meaningful impact.

Right now, the Chinese are still rookies on their new jets, they need a few more years of experience to learn the limits of the jet and incorporate it into their doctrine. It will allow us to catch up in many other areas which are more important, like border infrastructure and air defences.

I'd actually say, at this time, the PLAAF is more of a threat to the US than to India because they are far more trained to deal with the USAF/USN at sea than the IAF in the mountains. They have only recently started building infrastructure to operate in the mountains. The air force has a greater role to play over seas than in the mountains. And the ability of aircraft and air defences to hide in mountain terrain is a great advantage for the defender. Another important factor being the Indian Army is significantly less dependent on the air force than the US Army and USMC are in terms of conducting operations, and the IA also carry air defences with them.

 

[randomradio]

This is why you are not taken seriously. Luckily for IAF they are not as deluded as you and recognize the deep sht they are in.

Let me see: Internet weeaboo v. the Chief of Air Combat Command.

AIR FORCE: 'If We Don’t Keep The F-22 Raptor Viable, The F-35 Fleet Will Be Irrelevant'

The Air Force is struggling to create a next generation fleet.

www.businessinsider.com

“If I do not keep that F-22 fleet viable, the F-35 fleet frankly will be irrelevant. The F-35 is not built as an air superiority platform. It needs the F-22,” Hostage told the Air Force Times.

Chief of Air Combat Command wins.

The F-35 is a strike jet, not an air superiority jet. Can't defeat the J-20 with it, no matter what sort of snake oil the internet weeaboos sell. 'Cause physics. It's no different from how a horse can't defeat a car in a race. Physics. Physics matters. Better learn some.

 

[Innominate]

Let me see: Internet weeaboo v. the Chief of Air Combat Command.

AIR FORCE: 'If We Don’t Keep The F-22 Raptor Viable, The F-35 Fleet Will Be Irrelevant'

The Air Force is struggling to create a next generation fleet.

www.businessinsider.com

“If I do not keep that F-22 fleet viable, the F-35 fleet frankly will be irrelevant. The F-35 is not built as an air superiority platform. It needs the F-22,” Hostage told the Air Force Times.

Chief of Air Combat Command wins.

Context you dope and that was 2014 when the USAF was trying to get funding for F-22 upgrades.

The F-35 is a strike jet, not an air superiority jet. Can't defeat the J-20 with it, no matter what sort of snake oil the internet weeaboos sell. 'Cause physics. It's no different from how a horse can't defeat a car in a race. Physics. Physics matters. Better learn some.

Weren't you the same dope that said Russia was going to roll over Ukraine? You don't know anything about the F-35 and are just trolling you may fool some of your fellow citizens in here but outside of that you're trolling.

Plz lets get into details with sources why you think the J20 is superior... you go first.

 

[randomradio]

Context you dope and that was 2014 when the USAF was trying to get funding for F-22 upgrades.

Physics, not context. It's like comparing a pro baseball pitcher with an amateur high school pitcher. A bigger stronger professional will always beat a half-arsed kid.

The J-20 has higher speed, acceleration, altitude etc, which all provides a massive kinematic advantage in BVR. Which is why you need 2 F-22s to do the work of 8 F-35s. Can't kill something you can't catch.

Weren't you the same dope that said Russia was going to roll over Ukraine? You don't know anything about the F-35 and are just trolling you may fool some of your fellow citizens in here but outside of that you're trolling.

I never said anything about Russia rolling over anything. Their objectives were completely unknown, so how would I comment on it? You are a donut for believing anybody knew anything about the war until it began. Hell, nobody outside the West even expected a war would happen.

The only thing I commented on was the direction of attack and got it right. Russia attacked on three fronts (north, south and west), while I said Russia should attack on two fronts (south and west). So I was actually accurate on that point.

Plz lets get into details with sources why you think the J20 is superior... you go first.

Gen. Mike Hostage On The F-35; No Growlers Needed When War Starts - Breaking Defense

For years, the news about the most expensive conventional weapons system in US history, the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, has been driven by its soaring costs, technical problems and schedule screw-ups. The government and Congress and the public rarely speak about what the F-35 will do, how...

breakingdefense.com

In fact, Hostage says that it takes eight F-35s to do what two F-22s can handle.

“The F-35 is geared to go out and take down the surface targets,” says Hostage, leaning forward. “The F-35 doesn’t have the altitude, doesn’t have the speed [of the F-22], but it can beat the F-22 in stealth.”

...the F-35 is not compelling unless it’s there in numbers,” the general says. “Because it can’t turn and run away, it’s got to have support from other F-35s. So I’m going to need eight F-35s to go after a target that I might only need two Raptors to go after.



It's physics. You need speed, altitude, range etc. A mach 0.8 aircraft can't kill a mach 1.6 aircraft. Only a stupid person can't understand this concept, something even a kindergartner will understand. It literally doesn't get more obvious than that.

 

[Innominate]

Physics, not context. It's like comparing a pro baseball pitcher with an amateur high school pitcher. A bigger stronger professional will always beat a half-arsed kid.

The J-20 has higher speed, acceleration, altitude etc, which all provides a massive kinematic advantage in BVR. Which is why you need 2 F-22s to do the work of 8 F-35s. Can't kill something you can't catch.

You don't have a damn clue the chicom J-20 speed, acceleration or altitude is with a combat load compared to the F-35. F-35 see's J-20 first and that is all you need. Take it from this pilot who knows way more than youz

"The least impressive thing about the (F-22) Raptor is its speed and maneuverability."

It's all about SA and EW and the F-35 has it and the F-22 comes in distant second when it comes to the F-35's superior SA and EW.

And US is not impressed with J-20s

Air Force Generals Aren't "Losing Sleep" Over China's J-20 Stealth Fighter

Air Force chiefs aren't too concerned with China's J-20 stealth fighter, but say the service has to keep modernizing to keep it that way.

www.thedrive.com

Translation: the J-20s are visible to the F-35's targeting radar and the F-35 is invisible to the J-20's targeting radar.

I never said anything about Russia rolling over anything. Their objectives were completely unknown, so how would I comment on it? You are a donut for believing anybody knew anything about the war until it began. Hell, nobody outside the West even expected a war would happen.

The only thing I commented on was the direction of attack and got it right. Russia attacked on three fronts (north, south and west), while I said Russia should attack on two fronts (south and west). So I was actually accurate on that point.

Gen. Mike Hostage On The F-35; No Growlers Needed When War Starts - Breaking Defense

For years, the news about the most expensive conventional weapons system in US history, the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, has been driven by its soaring costs, technical problems and schedule screw-ups. The government and Congress and the public rarely speak about what the F-35 will do, how...

breakingdefense.com

In fact, Hostage says that it takes eight F-35s to do what two F-22s can handle.

“The F-35 is geared to go out and take down the surface targets,” says Hostage, leaning forward. “The F-35 doesn’t have the altitude, doesn’t have the speed [of the F-22], but it can beat the F-22 in stealth.”

...the F-35 is not compelling unless it’s there in numbers,” the general says. “Because it can’t turn and run away, it’s got to have support from other F-35s. So I’m going to need eight F-35s to go after a target that I might only need two Raptors to go after.



It's physics. You need speed, altitude, range etc. A mach 0.8 aircraft can't kill a mach 1.6 aircraft. Only a stupid person can't understand this concept, something even a kindergartner will understand. It literally doesn't get more obvious than that.

Trolling as usual. This is a 2014 article at a time when USAF wanted funding to upgrade their F-22's also the whole 8 F-35's needed what 2 F-22's can do is a no brainer since those 8 F-35's are carrying AG ordinance which means each F-35 will be carrying 2 aim-120s. So yeah 8 F-35's carrying only 2 aim-120's = 16 air to air missiles which is the same amount 2 F-22's carry you dope.

USAF F-16 Pilot explains why he would Rather Fly the F-35 in combat than the F-22 (even in a War against Russia or China) - The Aviation Geek Club

USAF F-16 Pilot explains why he would Rather Fly the F-35 in combat than the F-22 (even in a War against Russia or China)

theaviationgeekclub.com

Seems like F-22 pilots had a difficult time going up against down graded F-35 aggressors.

A US F-22 Raptor pilot describes the challenge of going up against F-35 red-air aggressors

"It is challenging, even flying the Raptor to have good [situational awareness] on where the F-35s are," the pilot said.

www.businessinsider.com

In conclusion you're full of it and don't know sht.

 

[Rajput Lion]

Lol. IAF is already in deep trouble NOW. Chicoms have the numbers, tech and stealth on their side compared to IAF.

No sir we are not. Our AF is fully confident of thrashing the Chinese if they dare attack us. Our fighters combined with our IADS and topography can deal with PLAAF with aplomb.

This is why you are not taken seriously. Luckily for IAF they are not as deluded as you and recognize the deep sht they are in.

He is damn right. J-20 has already switched to WS-15 engines that has 105 KN thrust in dry and 181 KN thrust in wet mode and it uses two of them. This engine would give huge kinematic advantage to J-20 over your Stubby(362 kn vs 190 kn) and would also allow J-20 to supercruise.

They have also developed Raptor like 2-D TVC nozzles for this engine. Chinese are leaving no stones unturned in case of J-20, IMO.


Sensors? Yes, I agree that F35 is number 1 fighter in this regard. But J-20 is no joke. Recently PAF pilots did a exercise between J10 and F16. J10 tracked F16 with its IRST, totally radar silent and blew away your Vipers. Chinese sensors have improved by leaps and bounds.

So count then out at your own peril, me thinks

 

[Lolwa]

Nothing new's gonna happen in the next 2 years, and in the next 5, all we will have is jets on paper. If the Chinese attack us in the next few years, then there's no time for anything new. I suppose the forces have assumed that any war between the two will be a short war in 1 sector, like Ladakh, so we have enough for that. At best, we can hope the French can transfer another squadron from their stocks as attrition replacements.

In the long run, I don't have any real ideas apart from MRFA and AMCA. At least we know that by calling Rafale 4.5th gen, the IAF Chief has made a clear public distinction between 4.5 and 5, so I won't be surprised if a Su-57 v. F-35/NGAD contest happens. My personal AMCA timeline is 2040+, so I feel we need something as a stop gap between 2030 and 2040 that's not MRFA.

We need at least 50-100 second hand Mirages from the french and the qataris. That and manufacturing more flankers is the only way to cover up squadron loss..

No sir we are not. Our AF is fully confident of thrashing the Chinese if they dare attack us. Our fighters combined with our IADS and topography can deal with PLAAF with aplomb.

He is damn right. J-20 has already switched to WS-15 engines that has 105 KN thrust in dry and 181 KN thrust in wet mode and it uses two of them. This engine would give huge kinematic advantage to J-20 over your Stubby(362 kn vs 190 kn) and would also allow J-20 to supercruise.

They have also developed Raptor like 2-D TVC nozzles for this engine. Chinese are leaving no stones unturned in case of J-20, IMO.


Sensors? Yes, I agree that F35 is number 1 fighter in this regard. But J-20 is no joke. Recently PAF pilots did a exercise between J10 and F16. J10 tracked F16 with its IRST, totally radar silent and blew away your Vipers. Chinese sensors have improved by leaps and bounds.

So count then out at your own peril, me thinks

Ws-15 transition still hasn't happened. F-35 is superior to the j-20. Realistically both will be fighting each other in wvr ranges to be fair

 

[Lolwa]

No sir we are not. Our AF is fully confident of thrashing the Chinese if they dare attack us. Our fighters combined with our IADS and topography can deal with PLAAF with aplomb.

He is damn right. J-20 has already switched to WS-15 engines that has 105 KN thrust in dry and 181 KN thrust in wet mode and it uses two of them. This engine would give huge kinematic advantage to J-20 over your Stubby(362 kn vs 190 kn) and would also allow J-20 to supercruise.

They have also developed Raptor like 2-D TVC nozzles for this engine. Chinese are leaving no stones unturned in case of J-20, IMO.


Sensors? Yes, I agree that F35 is number 1 fighter in this regard. But J-20 is no joke. Recently PAF pilots did a exercise between J10 and F16. J10 tracked F16 with its IRST, totally radar silent and blew away your Vipers. Chinese sensors have improved by leaps and bounds.

So count then out at your own peril, me thinks

J-10's are good planes. But realistically the f-35's will see both of them earlier unless the Chinese have some special EW capability to blind the Americans.

 

[Innominate]

No sir we are not. Our AF is fully confident of thrashing the Chinese if they dare attack us. Our fighters combined with our IADS and topography can deal with PLAAF with aplomb.

Lol. I'm confident one day I'll make over a $ million per year in salary but reality says very likely won't happen.

IAF can be confident until the cows come home however reality tends to slap that confidence out of youz. Reality is IAF is in big trouble and they know it. Chicom Flankers are more advanced than IAF flankers and with the exception of IAF 36 Rafales chicoms J-10s are more advanced than any IAF fighter... take a guess why.

He is damn right. J-20 has already switched to WS-15 engines that has 105 KN thrust in dry and 181 KN thrust in wet mode and it uses two of them. This engine would give huge kinematic advantage to J-20 over your Stubby(362 kn vs 190 kn) and would also allow J-20 to supercruise.

You don't have a damn clue what the J-20s performance is even with its new engines. And radio aint right he hasn't been right on anything and is a troll so what does that say about you for believing a troll?

I posted a video of a F-22 and F-35 pilot and if you'd watched it you wouldn't agree with such stupid claims.

They have also developed Raptor like 2-D TVC nozzles for this engine. Chinese are leaving no stones unturned in case of J-20, IMO.

Yawn.

Sensors? Yes, I agree that F35 is number 1 fighter in this regard. But J-20 is no joke. Recently PAF pilots did a exercise between J10 and F16. J10 tracked F16 with its IRST, totally radar silent and blew away your Vipers. Chinese sensors have improved by leaps and bounds.

Um... what? J-20 is no joke because J-10 and F-16 had an exercise together and j-10 tracked f-16 with irst and won.... what the hell does that have to do with F-35 being superior to J-20? What were ROE in this exercise? Were F-16's handicapped like F-15's were when taking on IAF flankers giving flanker a huge advantaged? See what I did there?

So count then out at your own peril, me thinks

I count them non threat against US fighters but count them a huge threat to IAF fighters.

 

[randomradio]

You don't have a damn clue the chicom J-20 speed, acceleration or altitude is with a combat load compared to the F-35. F-35 see's J-20 first and that is all you need. Take it from this pilot who knows way more than youz

"The least impressive thing about the (F-22) Raptor is its speed and maneuverability."

It's all about SA and EW and the F-35 has it and the F-22 comes in distant second when it comes to the F-35's superior SA and EW.

And US is not impressed with J-20s

Air Force Generals Aren't "Losing Sleep" Over China's J-20 Stealth Fighter

Air Force chiefs aren't too concerned with China's J-20 stealth fighter, but say the service has to keep modernizing to keep it that way.

www.thedrive.com

Translation: the J-20s are visible to the F-35's targeting radar and the F-35 is invisible to the J-20's targeting radar.

We all know the F-22's SA and EW are inferior to the F-35, but Hostage still said they need 2 F-22s for 8 F-35s, and he was talking about the F-35 during the time when people thought it will be ready before 2021, not the clusterfvck it's become.

Sorry, physics trumps everything.

Trolling as usual. This is a 2014 article at a time when USAF wanted funding to upgrade their F-22's

The USAF doesn't need to convince anybody to upgrade the F-22, especially when both USG and industry were hellbent on modernising the F-22 and restarting the production line even against the USAF's wishes, the complete opposite of what you are trying to push.

also the whole 8 F-35's needed what 2 F-22's can do is a no brainer since those 8 F-35's are carrying AG ordinance which means each F-35 will be carrying 2 aim-120s. So yeah 8 F-35's carrying only 2 aim-120's = 16 air to air missiles which is the same amount 2 F-22's carry you dope.

USAF F-16 Pilot explains why he would Rather Fly the F-35 in combat than the F-22 (even in a War against Russia or China) - The Aviation Geek Club

USAF F-16 Pilot explains why he would Rather Fly the F-35 in combat than the F-22 (even in a War against Russia or China)

theaviationgeekclub.com

Yes, I knew you wouldn't get it. Nope, it has nothing to do with what you said.

Even that F-16 pilot is talking about something else entirely. You won't get it. You need to have some level of awareness for that. What he said is mind-numbingly arrogant. But it's also the reason why you do not understand Hostage's message. And this pilot is saying the exact same thing I am, even though he's being ridiculously arrogant about it.

Seems like F-22 pilots had a difficult time going up against down graded F-35 aggressors.

A US F-22 Raptor pilot describes the challenge of going up against F-35 red-air aggressors

"It is challenging, even flying the Raptor to have good [situational awareness] on where the F-35s are," the pilot said.

www.businessinsider.com

In conclusion you're full of it and don't know sht.

All he said is the F-35 is more of a threat than the F-16 during training, there's nothing else being said there.

It still doesn't change the fact that Hostage is right because of... physics.

Physics reigns supreme, all you weeaboos won't get it. The F-16 pilot gets it, I get it, you don't. It's that simple.

 

[randomradio]

We need at least 50-100 second hand Mirages from the french and the qataris. That and manufacturing more flankers is the only way to cover up squadron loss..

It's too late to do anything.

The Chinese need to get their hands bloody on a battlefield before they can attack Taiwan and fight the US, and India is their best bet for that. So whatever's gonna happen will happen long before we can get anything new fielded.

I have been pointing out since a long time that the Chinese are aiming for regional superiority with the US well before 2030, and Gen Milley says their goal to achieve that is 2027. So, assuming an invasion between 2027 and 2030, we can assume that whatever they need to do to get experience will happen a lot sooner than 2027 on the Sino-India border. My best guess is 2023 or 2024, before elections. I am leaning on 2024 due to the elections, with Depsang as the main target.

If nothing happens before 2027, then we will be fine for many years. And we have a modernisation plan for that.

 

[Lolwa]

It's too late to do anything.

The Chinese need to get their hands bloody on a battlefield before they can attack Taiwan and fight the US, and India is their best bet for that. So whatever's gonna happen will happen long before we can get anything new fielded.

I have been pointing out since a long time that the Chinese are aiming for regional superiority with the US well before 2030, and Gen Milley says their goal to achieve that is 2027. So, assuming an invasion between 2027 and 2030, we can assume that whatever they need to do to get experience will happen a lot sooner than 2027 on the Sino-India border. My best guess is 2023 or 2024, before elections. I am leaning on 2024 due to the elections, with Depsang as the main target.

If nothing happens before 2027, then we will be fine for many years. And we have a modernisation plan for that.

It will take no more than year to add 2 squadrons of mirage easily

 

[randomradio]

It will take no more than year to add 2 squadrons of mirage easily

No one has Mirages to give away. French stuff is old and needs upgrades, the Taiwanese need theirs against the same adversary and UAE's not expected to keep them until 2030.

I'd actually prefer the Taiwanese learn from our experience and use their jets against the Chinese more effectively.

Anyway, we have enough to fight a short war in one sector as effectively as the Chinese can.

 

[SrNair]

It's too late to do anything.

The Chinese need to get their hands bloody on a battlefield before they can attack Taiwan and fight the US, and India is their best bet for that. So whatever's gonna happen will happen long before we can get anything new fielded.

I have been pointing out since a long time that the Chinese are aiming for regional superiority with the US well before 2030, and Gen Milley says their goal to achieve that is 2027. So, assuming an invasion between 2027 and 2030, we can assume that whatever they need to do to get experience will happen a lot sooner than 2027 on the Sino-India border. My best guess is 2023 or 2024, before elections. I am leaning on 2024 due to the elections, with Depsang as the main target.

If nothing happens before 2027, then we will be fine for many years. And we have a modernisation plan for that.

This is a valid point.Infact the 2020 conflict was testing the waters and our response.
Perhaps they had already changed the plan as per result .
Now like you said since we had already wasted too much of years with petty politics and stupid drama of UPA Govts .
One choice is to sudden escalation all the way up to nuclear ladder if Chinese attempts for any thing.Block the Malacca Strait and any attack they will see nuke in their cities .
Do or die .War of attrition will cost dearly and we will lose all the developments we have already made.

No one has Mirages to give away. French stuff is old and needs upgrades, the Taiwanese need theirs against the same adversary and UAE's not expected to keep them until 2030.

I'd actually prefer the Taiwanese learn from our experience and use their jets against the Chinese more effectively.

Anyway, we have enough to fight a short war in one sector as effectively as the Chinese can.

Dont believe that .US E 3 recon aircraft couldnt identify J 20 in SCS until it was too late .
So we are miles behind that of Chinese .
Chinese have the enough capacity to drag a war of attrition for at least 1 year against us .We cant sustain that long for sure .

 

[randomradio]

This is a valid point.Infact the 2020 conflict was testing the waters and our response.
Perhaps they had already changed the plan as per result .
Now like you said since we had already wasted too much of years with petty politics and stupid drama of UPA Govts .
One choice is to sudden escalation all the way up to nuclear ladder if Chinese attempts for any thing.Block the Malacca Strait and any attack they will see nuke in their cities .
Do or die .War of attrition will cost dearly and we will lose all the developments we have already made.

The way we are now, we can't even get into an all-out war across the entire border, never mind a long war. There's the danger of Pakistan entering the fray, and we do not have enough air assets to deal with both, army assets as well. Today, we can only fight a war restricted to North India. We have to take back PoK if we are to dent a two-front war.

Nukes are out of the question. In the Sino-India context, we don't have to bring in nukes because we are not existential threats to each other at this time. It's the same equation between the US and China, since neither side can invade the other. The only real possibilities of a nuclear war are Russia-NATO, Russia-China, Indo-Pak, Israel-Iran and NoKo-SoKo.

Dont believe that .US E 3 recon aircraft couldnt identify J 20 in SCS until it was too late .
So we are miles behind that of Chinese .
Chinese have the enough capacity to drag a war of attrition for at least 1 year against us .We cant sustain that long for sure .

E-3? No, the USAF does not have enough assets, plus they are unreliable. The US plans to eventually replace AWACS with satellites and drones combination. There's a plan to buy some Wedgetail as stop gap.

We can't fight China across the front for many months without massive amounts of aid.