People's Liberation Army Air Force : News & Discussions

[LX1111]

Do not evade the question, kid. Explain why no one is purchasing your cheap fighters when your competition (the Russians) is under sanction

What makes you think that the United States has not banned the sale of Chinese aircraft? The order for 20 JF-17 fighter jets from Iraq was forcibly cancelled by the Americans at the last minute, but we still achieved results. The UAE ordered 12 L15 advanced trainer aircraft. The JF-17 has achieved results in Myanmar and Nigeria, and the FTG2000G has also achieved quite good export results. The Y-8/Y-9 transport aircraft has also been successfully exported to Kazakhstan. Although our results are not as good as those of the United States, they are much better than those of India. How many Tejas fighter jets has India sold?

You just asked for "official" source about india content in Su-30.

Imagine us asking the same about Russian and Chinese content in the J-11.

PLAN is so special, please take our word for it.

Your Indian compatriot gave me a News Website， and I recognized it ,I did not regard it as Indian propaganda. But I gave you a public interview with CCTV, but you regarded it as Chinese propaganda. It's that simple. Since you want the data from the PLAAF itself, then I naturally want the data from the IAF itself.

 

[Ashwin]

What makes you think that the United States has not banned the sale of Chinese aircraft? The order for 20 JF-17 fighter jets from Iraq was forcibly cancelled by the Americans at the last minute, but we still achieved results. The UAE ordered 12 L15 advanced trainer aircraft. The JF-17 has achieved results in Myanmar and Nigeria, and the FTG2000G has also achieved quite good export results. The Y-8/Y-9 transport aircraft has also been successfully exported to Kazakhstan. Although our results are not as good as those of the United States, they are much better than those of India. How many Tejas fighter jets has India sold?

I think i specified "fighter".

Even with the things you mentioned its too low compared to history of cheap chinese exports. So many F-7 were exported. You were supposed to move up the value chain and increase influence, which is not happening with supposedly "thousands of engine production" per year.

Why are you comparing with us? We were never an export house; we barely made enough for ourselves. We are never in the race.

Your Indian compatriot gave me a News Website， and I recognized it ,I did not regard it as Indian propaganda. But I gave you a public interview with CCTV, but you regarded it as Chinese propaganda. It's that simple. Since you want the data from the PLAAF itself, then I naturally want the data from the IAF itself.

No you didnt. You asked for "offical" data. Which he sourced from HAL and presented. Can you give the same from CAC/SAC ?. Back your claim about thousand of WS-10 engine production.

Dont kid yourself. CCTV is blatant propaganda, even YouTube acknowledges it as such.

 

[LX1111]

No you didnt. You asked for "offical" data. Which he sourced from HAL and presented. Can you give the same from CAC/SAC ?. Back your claim about thousand of WS-10 engine production.

Dont kid yourself. CCTV is blatant propaganda, even YouTube acknowledges it as such.

You said that China's national television is open propaganda, then why can't I say that Indian newspapers are open propaganda? Since you want to say that the data obtained by Indian newspapers from hal can become official data, then I want to say that the Chinese TV station obtained public data from Shenyang Aircraft Company, which can also be called official data.

Even with the things you mentioned its too low compared to history of cheap chinese exports. So many F-7 were exported. You were supposed to move up the value chain and increase influence, which is not happening with supposedly "thousands of engine production" per year.

Why are you comparing with us? We were never an export house; we barely made enough for ourselves. We are never in the race

Another typical example of ignorance of Chinese history, most of the J-7 exported by China went to Iran and Iraq for use in the Iran-Iraq War, and some went to Pakistan. Some were exported to Egypt and Jordan because the Soviet Union withdrew from the Middle East and these countries needed a Soviet fighter.

Why are you comparing with us? We were never an export house; we barely made enough for ourselves. We are never in the race

I think you don't need to deceive yourself. India has been trying everything possible to promote the Tejas fighter jet in recent years, but unfortunately, it has not achieved any success.

 

[Ashwin]

You said that China's national television is open propaganda, then why can't I say that Indian newspapers are open propaganda? Since you want to say that the data obtained by Indian newspapers from hal can become official data, then I want to say that the Chinese TV station obtained public data from Shenyang Aircraft Company, which can also be called official data.

No, it's not. HAL is legally required to provide correct data as it is listed on the stock market. The MoD and IAF have accountability mechanisms with CAG or other tools like the RTI Act and Parliament. They are using public funds, thus accountability on where it is used is there. I understand these concepts are new to you. Don't bury your head in the sand for too long.

Next time, when making tall claims, remember that you don't have anything to show for other than some serial numbers.

Another typical example of ignorance of Chinese history, most of the J-7 exported by China went to Iran and Iraq for use in the Iran-Iraq War, and some went to Pakistan. Some were exported to Egypt and Jordan because the Soviet Union withdrew from the Middle East and these countries needed a Soviet fighter.

Read about your own history. It was exported to Bangladesh, Myanmar, Sri Lanka, and even North Korea. That alone is like 500+..

Now come back to the question. why no one want your cheap stuff today.

I think you don't need to deceive yourself. India has been trying everything possible to promote the Tejas fighter jet in recent years, but unfortunately, it has not achieved any success.

Yeah, in recent years phenomena, we don't have any history and we have never tried before. Therefore, there is nothing to compare, unlike you, whose market is declining. No one is taking the claims of quality or reliability of the aircraft or engine seriously.

 

[Rajput Lion]

Hi, IAF is probably very happy to hear your words, after all, they will be very proud when they fly MIG-21 to fight J-10C and F-16, and when they are shot down, they will ask where our Tejas are, and you can proudly answer that since we don't have our own engines and F404 is delayed, they are still in HAL, the world's largest aviation museum

The same Mig-21 destroyed PAF F-16 in 2019. Remember that? And our Air Force is well equipped and trained to deal with all your fighters. Yes, J-20 with its stealth is going to be a problem for us. But a combo of MKI UPG. + Rafale + our IADS is going to take care of that too until we procure our 5th gen fighter.

Astra MK2 is about to become operational in few years and once that happens your BVR advantage will fade too.

 

[randomradio]

@LX1111

Su-35S firing at a Mig-29 from 160+ km away.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1822657704294260818

You seem to have underestimated the capabilities of the Irbis-E.

 

[randomradio]

Well, I understand. India's share of AL-31 production is 53% in terms of price and 81% in terms of the number of parts. India needs to purchase all raw materials and a large number of assembly tools from Russia according to the contract, and use these to produce about 51% of the aircraft structure, and gradually increase the proportion.

We have ordered 240 more engines, and that will come with higher indigenization.

We do not know the status of fully Indian AL-31FP, with Indian-made hot core. That may take 5-10 years, if the Russians allow it.

Another point to note is importing raw materials is only for jets that are produced from scratch. For spares, overhaul etc, we can source anything we want from non-Russian sources. And once the upgrade program begins, 51% by price will increase to 78%. Eventually it will become upwards of 90%.

 

[LX1111]

@LX1111

Su-35S firing at a Mig-29 from 160+ km away.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1822657704294260818

You seem to have underestimated the capabilities of the Irbis-E.

I don't think I underestimated it. The main problem with the Su-35 radar is that the PESA itself has a low signal-to-noise ratio and low anti-interference ability. The N035 radar still uses an electric vacuum device as the transmitter. Compared with solid-state devices, the electric vacuum device is at a disadvantage in terms of waveform agility, reliability, instantaneous bandwidth, and equipment size and weight.

 

[LX1111]

@LX1111

Su-35S firing at a Mig-29 from 160+ km away.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1822657704294260818

You seem to have underestimated the capabilities of the Irbis-E.

The advantages of the N035 radar are also obvious. Its power is very high, with an average power of up to 5KW and a peak power of up to 25KW, which is very high. This also results in a very long detection distance. When scanning at ±60°, it has a detection range of 200 kilometers for a target of 3㎡. When scanning at ±20°, its detection range can reach 350-400 kilometers.
This is also reflected in the HUD

 

[LX1111]

@LX1111

Su-35S firing at a Mig-29 from 160+ km away.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1822657704294260818

You seem to have underestimated the capabilities of the Irbis-E.

Moreover, the original blogger got an important piece of information wrong. The green circle does not indicate the maximum range of the missile, but the flight time of the missile.

 

[_Anonymous_]

Oh, forget it? The target aircraft of WS-6 has never been J-7, but J-13 which was once popular.

Did I deny that China introduced RR's Spey engine?

You never admitted that all your endeavours in building Turbo Fans were basically cut copy steal & paste ventures as well . It's only after we started posting information about Han perfidies you started gradually revealing what exactly was the nature of those endeavours like a strip tease artist.

As I remarked earlier deceit in a natural Han trait. When you don't even spare your own , why should you spare anyone else ?

We just bought it and built it from scratch, but unlike India, we are serious.

I think this statement here is symptomatic of the Han thought process. Thanks for the admission. We really appreciate it . "We just bought it & built it from scratch" WITHOUT any IPR or agreement . In other words copyright to the Han means right to copy.

Hence anybody who's serious about their endeavours HAS to indulge in copying like the Han otherwise as you put it it - " unlike the Indians , we are serious. "

 

[LX1111]

You never admitted that all your endeavours in building Turbo Fans were basically cut copy steal & paste ventures as well . It's only after we started posting information about Han perfidies you started gradually revealing what exactly was the nature of those endeavours like a strip tease artist.

As I remarked earlier deceit in a natural Han trait. When you don't even spare your own , why should you spare anyone else ?


I think this statement here is symptomatic of the Han thought process. Thanks for the admission. We really appreciate it . "We just bought it & built it from scratch" WITHOUT any IPR or agreement . In other words copyright to the Han means right to copy.

Hence anybody who's serious about their endeavours HAS to indulge in copying like the Han otherwise as you put it it - " unlike the Indians , we are serious. "

Honestly, it's boring and this racist attack has no merit.

 

[LX1111]

The same Mig-21 destroyed PAF F-16 in 2019. Remember that? And our Air Force is well equipped and trained to deal with all your fighters. Yes, J-20 with its stealth is going to be a problem for us. But a combo of MKI UPG. + Rafale + our IADS is going to take care of that too until we procure our 5th gen fighter.

Astra MK2 is about to become operational in few years and once that happens your BVR advantage will fade too.

Well, the India-Pakistan air war is a mess. India claimed to have shot down an F-16, and Pakistan announced that it had shot down an SU30. There is no direct evidence.

Yes, J-20 with its stealth is going to be a problem for us. But a combo of MKI UPG. + Rafale + our IADS is going to take care of that too until we procure our 5th gen fighter

I found that many people are confident that they can shoot down the J20, whether they are Indians or Taiwanese.

 

[_Anonymous_]

I found out why Indian religion is so complicated. Indians are too good at sophistry.

Which is the reason the Chinese recognised the SOPHISTICATION of the Indic way of life , adopted Buddhism & came out here to learn more about Buddhist philosophy since it was clearly much more superior to anything the Han produced.

In fact so embarassed were these Chinese students that the thought of spreading Chinese philosophy or religion out here never crossed their minds.

I think the present generation of Han desperately needs a good dose of humility . It's best you learn from your ancestors how they regarded India as 天上的中心

Ah, you said it well, full of the confidence of a Hindu fan, but this kind of confidence cannot build aircraft engines.

As I also remarked earlier which given you use Baidu translate , must have surely botched up the translation much like all Chinese products & services , Chinese built their Turbo Fans in their very first attempt . They're known as the WS-6.

So successful were Chinese attempts that the project was scrapped & the CCP decided the best way forward was COPYRIGHT with Han characteristics which resulted in the CCP importing the RR Spey TFs & the rest is history.

I don't know what reputation we have, at least in the Russian forums I attend, India is already a joke

You mean the same Russians who after conquering Ukraine are poised to take over Europe ? Much like the Chinese who've been taking over a tiny nation sitting just 150 kms away from the coast of China with an island barely 3 kms away from the Chinese coast for the past 75 years .

The world has a name for such countries & their people. Let me translate that for you & insert a picture so that Baidu translate doesn't botch up the translation once again .

It's called 纸老虎

Then again this is you - a Han & a Wumao from the MSS reporting on what the Russians have allegedly have to say about India. We think we'd take your reporting just as we take your opinions & posts out here with a bucket full of salt .

 

[LX1111]

Astra MK2 is about to become operational in few years and once that happens your BVR advantage will fade too.

As far as I remember, the Astra missile has a range of 160 kilometers at an altitude of 15,000 meters, and the PL15 has a range of more than 200 kilometers at 10,000 meters, so there is still a gap. Moreover, the PL15 has been around for almost 10 years. It is estimated that by the time the MK2 appears, China's next-generation missile will also be available, a new generation of missiles that will compete with the AIM260.

Which is the reason the Chinese recognised the SOPHISTICATION of the Indic way of life , adopted Buddhism & came out here to learn more about Buddhist philosophy since it was clearly much more superior to anything the Han produced.

In fact so embarassed were these Chinese students that the thought of spreading Chinese philosophy or religion out here never crossed their minds.

I think the present generation of Han desperately needs a good dose of humility . It's best you learn from your ancestors how they regarded India as 天上的中心



As I also remarked earlier which given you use Baidu translate , must have surely botched up the translation much like all Chinese products & services , Chinese built their Turbo Fans in their very first attempt . They're known as the WS-6.

So successful were Chinese attempts that the project was scrapped & the CCP decided the best way forward was COPYRIGHT with Han characteristics which resulted in the CCP importing the RR Spey TFs & the rest is history.


You mean the same Russians who after conquering Ukraine are poised to take over Europe ? Much like the Chinese who've been taking over a tiny nation sitting just 150 kms away from the coast of China with an island barely 3 kms away from the Chinese coast for the past 75 years .

The world has a name for such countries & their people. Let me translate that for you & insert a picture so that Baidu translate doesn't botch up the translation once again .

It's called 纸老虎

View attachment 35339

Then again this is you - a Han & a Wumao from the MSS reporting on what the Russians have allegedly have to say about India. We think we'd take your reporting just as we take your opinions & posts out here with a bucket full of salt .

Very interesting, but can this kind of abuse make F404 delivered as soon as possible? If not, then I welcome you to continue

 

[_Anonymous_]

Hey, in the eyes of Indians, probably everything in China is copied. Of course, that's fine, but what about WS-15? In this world, how many companies can produce a fourth-generation low bypass ratio high thrust engine comparable to the F119? Is it the French Snecma company that Indians worship as a god? Who did WS-15 copy? What is the result of Indians' self-reliance? Any reasonable person can see that India is actually very dependent on Western technology transfer.

Wumao when you copy everything over a period of time you develop some sort of expertise however pathetic it may be from the technological point of view . That's what the WS-15 is all about.

It's what we call WiP - Work in Progress. Just as every other iteration is an improvement on the previous ones so it is with the WS-15 & the successive iterations of it which will follow.

If it was really World Class the CCP which hardly leaves any opportunity for propaganda go abegging would have participated with these very TFs equipping your Fighter Aircrafts - FAs in every possible Air Show in the world & participated in competitive bidding offering your FAs & TFs for inspection & evaluation to Air Forces from around the World.

How many such competitive bidding processes has the J-10 been involved in since you officially can't offer the J-11 or the J-16 which also acts as a convenient fig leaf for the CCP & the PLAAF like say the Dassault Rafale or the Eurofighter Typhoon has in evaluations across the world apart from the US F-15 , F-16 , F-18s ?

Zero . The only ones buying them are impoverished countries like your iron brother Paxtan to whom you sell on credit on exorbitant interest rates & the latter having no choice in the matter is hardly in a position to resist since their first preference the F-16 has been banned for sale by the US & Paxtan being broke can't afford other Fighter Aircrafts from across the world.

To be honest, the actual situation is much more complicated than the Indians think. The Spey engine has never been a backup for the WS-6. Of course, from today's perspective, the WS-6 has many design problems and was not installed on the aircraft for test flights. But the reason for its cancellation was actually the large-scale military spending cuts and chaotic military industry situation in China during the Deng Xiaoping period. As for the Spey engine, China introduced it in 1976, but it was not until 1999 that the project for imitation was launched. At that time, a large amount of original data and parts had been lost. As for why, it is very simple. The PLAAF did not want the JH-7 at that time. Only a few JH-7s were deployed in the navy, and the number would not exceed 50. Naturally, there was no motivation to imitate the Spey engine. A small amount of imports from the UK could meet the demand. As for why it was imitated later, it was with the emergence of the Taiwan crisis in the Jiang Zemin era and the reorganization of the military industry that the Spey engine began to be imitated. However, at this time, it had been 15 years since the WS-6 engine stopped developing, and the WS-10 in this case was already in the bench test.

 

[LX1111]

Wumao when you copy everything over a period of time you develop some sort of expertise however pathetic it may be from the technological point of view . That's what the WS-15 is all about.

It's what we call WiP - Work in Progress. Just as every other iteration is an improvement on the previous ones so it is with the WS-15 & the successive iterations of it which will follow.

If it was really World Class the CCP which hardly leaves any opportunity for propaganda go abegging would have participated with these very TFs equipping your Fighter Aircrafts - FAs in every possible Air Show in the world & participated in competitive bidding offering your FAs & TFs for inspection & evaluation to Air Forces from around the World.

How many such competitive bidding processes has the J-10 been involved in since you officially can't offer the J-11 or the J-16 which also acts as a convenient fig leaf for the CCP & the PLAAF like say the Dassault Rafale or the Eurofighter Typhoon has in evaluations across the world apart from the US F-15 , F-16 , F-18s ?

Zero . The only ones buying them are impoverished countries like your iron brother Paxtan to whom you sell on credit on exorbitant interest rates & the latter having no choice in the matter is hardly in a position to resist since their first preference the F-16 has been banned for sale by the US & Paxtan being broke can't afford other Fighter Aircrafts from across the world.

Please continue, I welcome it.

 

[_Anonymous_]

Stop joking, Buddhism does not have that much influence in East Asia.

Of course. If a Han has made such a declaration it must be true.

Besides, no one in East Asia thinks that India is a Buddhist country.

Please show me where did I claim India is a Buddhist country ? It is the birth place of 4 major & minor world religions though including Buddhism. How many such world religions have the Han produced ?

As for the rest, I can only say t hat I admire the confidence of Indians. India's status in Chinese history is almost non-existent.

‘India conquered and dominated China culturally for 20 centuries without ever having to send a single soldier across her border’

Hu Shih

You are not even as good as the Muslim empire in Central Asia.

You mean the same Central Asia where the Han was kicked out of in the Battle of the Talas River , never to return ever during the Tang Dynasty ?

The last time China went to South Asia was 10th century ago. Since then, Buddhism and India have had nothing to do with each other.

Of course. If a Han has made such a declaration it must be true.

One more thing, I actually don’t need a VPN to access this website, and I don’t think I’m seeking approval from Indians.

Thanks for inadvertently admitting you're a Wumao from the MSS out here only to disseminate propaganda . That's how pathetic you earns your daily bread.

Don't worry , it's considered a sin by us to deprive a person of his livelihood. Please go right ahead & keep posting your propaganda earning 50 cents per post.

Btw , that's been the running rate per post for the past 15 years at least. Doesn't inflation affect the common Han irrespective of the kind of economic & financial manipulation the CCP indulges in ? Or are the Han used to being exploited by their masters the CCP ? Communism with Han characteristics eh ?

 

[LX1111]

Of course. If a Han has made such a declaration it must be true.



Please show me where did I claim India is a Buddhist country ? It is the birth place of 4 major & minor world religions though including Buddhism. How many such world religions have the Han produced ?







You mean the same Central Asia where the Han was kicked out of in the Battle of the Talas River , never to return ever during the Tang Dynasty ?






Thanks for inadvertently admitting you're a Wumao from the MSS out here only to disseminate propaganda . That's how pathetic you earns your daily bread.

Don't worry , it's considered a sin by us to deprive a person of his livelihood. Please go right ahead & keep posting your propaganda earning 50 cents per post.

Btw , that's been the running rate per post for the past 15 years at least. Doesn't inflation affect the common Han irrespective of the kind of economic & financial manipulation the CCP indulges in ? Or are the Han used to being exploited by their masters the CCP ? Communism with Han characteristics eh ?

Please continue, I welcome

 

[_Anonymous_]

As far as I remember, the Astra missile has a range of 160 kilometers at an altitude of 15,000 meters, and the PL15 has a range of more than 200 kilometers at 10,000 meters, so there is still a gap. Moreover, the PL15 has been around for almost 10 years. It is estimated that by the time the MK2 appears, China's next-generation missile will also be available, a new generation of missiles that will compete with the AIM260.

Very interesting, but can this kind of abuse make F404 delivered as soon as possible? If not, then I welcome you to continue

Don't you read AUTHENTIC news as opposed to propaganda ? Why exactly are you here on this forum then ? Didn't you read the threads on the LCA Mk -1 / Mk-1a & the Mk -2 threads on information about the status of the delivery or lack of adherence to it by GE ?

The F-404 is delayed thanks to the Wuhan virus pandemic which jeopardized supply chains all over the world ? Leave aside GE , Airbus Boeing LM Dassault have still not got their supply chains on 100% .

GE has committed that within a years time they will be in a position to supply 20 + F 404 TFs which is September 2025 onwards.

Please continue, I welcome

Stick to posting facts , act in good faith & it will be reciprocated. Indulge in mindless propaganda unnecessary boasting & running down Indian programs & you'd get it good. How old did you say you were once again ?