I have no desire to discuss with you when I see your profile picture, an obvious Indian fanatic
So please continue
People's Liberation Army Air Force : News & Discussions
- Thread starter Aashish
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So please continue
It's a mess if you believe in Pak propaganda. They changed their stance from 2 Mig-21s shot down to 1 Mig and 1 Su-30MKI shot down.
On the contrary our stance has been the same since the beginning that we've lost one Mig-21 while we shot one F-16.
However, the point is that air combat is highly unpredictable and any fighter can shoot the other irrespective of its weight-class or age/generation.
Once again, you are reading me wrong. I think J-20 is an awesome fighter built by China and you deserve as much applause for it. I am not saying that our Su-30MKI UPG. or Rafale will defeat or dominate it. But with the help of our formidable IADS they definitely can deter J-20. That's their job while IA destroys PLA in-between. We need Su-57M or its derivatives or AMCA to defeat J-20, which at the moment we don't have.
Astra MK2's range is classified. It'll match PL-15 in every way once it becomes operational in few years. And you're correct that China also may develop even more advance BVRs till then. But we've Astra MK3 for that. It has got a range of 340 kms at high altitude. So in few years time IAF will draw level with PLAAF.
Well, this thing is not confidential. All news in India will report this data, or design indicators. As for the MAK3 missile that uses ramjet power in the future, these are still too far away. Moreover, ramjet power may not necessarily become the mainstream power of future missiles. As far as I know, both the United States and China have given up ramjet power.
But when the data of MK2 is secret, where does the data of MK3 come from?
I think you must have heard a piece of news. After the J-20 entered service, China once organized a large number of J-10C/J-16s and early warning aircraft, ground anti-stealth radars and J-20 to conduct a simulated air combat. The reality has proved that it is difficult to defeat the fifth-generation fighters relying on 4.5-generation aircraft and early warning aircraft, and the cooperation of ground radars, proving that many of China’s previous tactics were actually ineffective.
This also directly led to the cancellation of the J-11D, but it has completed most of the test flight subjects
To be honest, I don't want to discuss this. Such topics usually have no results and will only turn into nationalistic attacks on each other.
Nope. MK2's range and kinematics are indeed "top secret". There are only guesses regarding its range, flight time etc.
MK3's range, weight and kinematics on the other hand is fully presented by DRDO itself. Here is its "official" brochure:
^ Here you can see its range(s) at different altitude(s).
Sometime back someone in Sino Defense Forum wrote about how a 2-ship formation of J-16 lured and killed a J-20. There were also reports about J-20 simulating F-35 and attacking a PLA base from low level. Guess what, PLA IADS shot down all PLAAF's J-20.
If you underestimate Indian IADS, then it would be a folly! I never said that 4.5 jets would defeat 5th gen. But with advance tactics, networking and synchronized action of various land, space and other assets, even 5th gen could be defeated. Nothing is impossible in the realms of air-combat.
No worries
Well, at 8km altitude, it has a range of 190km, which is roughly the same as Meteor and PL15. It meets my expectations.
At least on the Chinese Internet, I have not seen such news. The exercise I mentioned can be found in the PLA’s official newspaper, the Liberation Army Daily.
I remember when we were discussing how China could defend against the F35, we often mentioned that we should not assume that only we have combat system, because the American system will not be weaker than ours. I think the same is true for India.
Nope. Astra MK3 has more range than Meteor and PL-15 is actually not even in the same class. Astra MK2 will clearly match it. If you don't believe it then feel free to disagree. I know exactly what I'm talking about.
Sino Defense Forum, on the J-20 thread.
Like always, the everlasting battle between the Shield and the Sword. Till then, just agree to disagree
Here, circumstances matter more than specifications. Russian systems are working fine in a presumably dense electronic environment, which in turn means many technologies that India also uses is being combat tested. And this helps explain why the IAF is not in a hurry to replace anything. If something works well in the European theater, we can assume it will work everywhere else.
A 160 km lock-on range means Chinese Flankers can be locked on from equal or greater ranges too.
His incorrect opinion doesn't matter to us.
PL-15 is too long and too heavy. That comes with design compromises that will make it less effective compared to smaller missiles.
The goal behind this missile is not to kill but to force the enemy to retreat.
Due to increased confidence that the F-22 and F-35 are becoming more and more vulnerable as time passes due to the static nature of RCS and dynamic nature of radar and other sensor technologies along with collaborative tactics.
You wouldn't mistake the N035 radar for the N011M radar, right? The difference between the two is very large, and the most intuitive manifestation is the transmitter power. The average power of the N035 is as high as 5KW, while the average power of India's N011M radar is only 1.2KW. How low is this number? The small radar transmission power of the Gripen C/D fighter is also 1.2Kw, which was also reflected in the Russian-Ukrainian war. Russia's main air control is the SU35 and SU30SM using the N035 radar, not the SU30SM
Only goals are stated at the beginning, not the full range. Astra Mk1's goal was 44 km at 8 km altitude (similar to R-77) and Mk2's goal is twice that of Mk1.
Mk1's goal has been significantly exceeded, to as much as 60 km at 8 km. So that translates into 100+ km at high altitude, similar to AIM-120C. We have to see if Mk2's goal of 80+ km at 8 km altitude is met or exceeded. So, right now, media reports are claiming 120-130 km or even 130+ km, which is pretty much double that of Mk1's realized figure. This will exceed AIM-120D, more specifically the dual-pulse FMRAAM (Meteor's American competitor).
The US doesn't use ramjet 'cause it's expensive. It was the same reason they canceled the LRASM-B ramjet missile. It's of less consequence to other countries that have smaller inventories as they compensate for lesser numbers with better technologies.
Other than that, in loadouts, ramjet has to be combined with solid rocket for greater effectiveness. So you fire the ramjets first and then solid rocket, followed by dogfight missiles. So Meteor + MICA.
And the Chinese strategy is simple. In order to beat the US, they seem to have figured that copying American capabilities is the best bet. All they have to do is make very similar systems, but make them 10-20% superior and build them in greater numbers. So if the US doesn't use ramjet, then there's no need for China to operate a similar system either. Ironically, because the US' main missile called LREW is many years away, they had to make a stopgap AIM-260 to catch up with PL-15. So this missile could be 10-20% superior to the PL-15. It's a pretty good strategy compared to France or Russia, who have to develop more advanced capabilities in specific areas in order to stay competitive.
N011M's lower power is compensated with lower noise. Also, for power to make a difference, it needs to be 16 times higher for double the range. N035 is just 4 times more powerful in comparison. In any case, peak power is rarely used, and N011M's cooling is sufficient for 1.2 KW versus 5 KW on N035.
Plus, as I said, the main competition over Tibet is Flankers, J-11 and J-16. The higher RCS makes up for the difference compared to Ukraine's Mig-29. As long as the MKI is able to pick up Flankers from long range, most of the work is done.
Russia is using a Bars derivative called N011M-R on its Su-30SMs. It's pretty much the same radar but uses a more powerful TWT. Upgrade to N035 is still pending.
Well, I mean the average power of the radar, not the peak power, which is commonly used in war. At the same time, the PESA system of N011M determines that its noise is very high. There is public information, antenna gain 36db, first sidelobe -25db, average sidelobe -48db. In comparison, the APG63 radar with a more backward system has a gain of 37db, and the first sidelobe level is less than -27db, which is better than N011M in all aspects.
According to the radar range formula, when all other conditions remain unchanged, the radar range is proportional to the fourth root of the radar transmission power. It can be calculated that the detection range of N011M for a target of 3 square meters is about 120 kilometers, which is consistent with the 110KM figure given by India's HAL.
Well, many satellite photos of Tibet show that the J-10 appears frequently. Similarly, if it is facing the J-11B, the better PD radar and the worse PESA can still be compared equally, but in front of the J-16/J-11BG, the Su-30 faces an absolute disadvantage.
My god, it's so complicated. Currently I can only see the 160KM (MK2)figure quoted by most Indian media.
At least for now, the AIM260 does not use a ramjet engine, but a traditional rocket engine, and does not even have wings. It uses thrust vectoring and lateral propulsion technology to ensure maneuverability.
However, the United States has already used ramjet technology in air-to-air missiles as early as the 1990s. For example, the AIM-152 AAM program was proposed by Raytheon/Huey.
I think many people have deified the ramjet engine. Its shortcomings are obvious. First, the missile's maneuverability is not as good as that of traditional missiles in order to ensure the air intake efficiency. Second, the resistance is too large in the gliding phase when the fuel is exhausted, and the range is limited. Third, the RCS is large and it is easy to be detected in advance.
For this reason, many countries have given up on ramjet missiles. For example, China had experimental photos of ramjet missiles in 2014, but there was no subsequent news.
Where did you come to this conclusion? The PL15 is about 2 meters long, 205mm in diameter, and weighs 210 kg, which is smaller than many missiles, such as the R27 series commonly used by India, and is similar to the Japanese AAM5 missile.
You may think that dual-pulse missiles have a longer range than single-pulse missiles, and ramjet engines are larger than dual-pulse missiles. However, the world is not that simple. Last year, AIM120D3 shot down an F16 target at 205 kilometers in an experiment. Although the experimental conditions are unknown, this range has reached the level of Meteor and PL15.
Well, according to the display board you gave me, the range is 190 km at 8 km altitude, while the PL15 and Meteor missiles have a range of more than 200 km at 10 km altitude. The three missiles are at least similar in data.