People's Liberation Army Air Force : News & Discussions

[Rajput Lion]

Some capabilities of the PL-15 may have been exaggerated at the time of its official release, and it's stuck. Only that AESA seeker is a special trait, although it should be old by today's standards, at least compared to whatever the Japanese will introduce with JNAAM.

PL-15E exported to PAF has claimed range of 145kms. The domestic PLAAF version would definitely use better propellant and should have better range than the export variant. Looking at its size, 200kms is not a distant possiblity. Combine that with AESA seeker which means it would be extremely hard to shake off using EW, as it'll have formidable ECCM. This missile has even spooked USAF. It has to be taken very seriously by us, IMO.

It still does not compare well with Meteor, which the Japanese plan to use on their F-35, which they decided will be their primary AAM after the PL-15 underwent tests.

Yup. That's exactly what I told Mr. Chinese. Meteor and Astra 3 are in a league of their own. And Japanese are looking to put their own AESA seeker in Meteor which shall enhance its lethality up several notches.

That's a very general claim meant for a non-technical audience.

DL, Jodhpur has also developed similar RAP and are making similar claim. I think significant reduction of RCS with use of the modern RAP(applied across the body, missiles, pylons, intakes, compressor fans) isn't out of realms now.

In the end, the J-16 is still a Flanker and its main survival tactic will require ECM and kinetic performance.

True, but any reduction in RCS is always welcome.

Furthermore, J-16 is centered around multirole/strike capabilities, so pilot training and avionics will primarily cater to that role. It's not as multirole as the MKI in terms of design. Its performance should much more closely mimic the Su-30MKK instead, which had trade-offs in the air to air domain for more strike and range.

Absolutely. MKI was born first and foremost for air-dominance. That's its primary role. With due time, IAF has turned it into an awesome swing-role fighter. J-16 just can't dogfight MKI.

In a 1v1, the J-16 will have an advantage due to the better radar, but both sides have to rely on off-board surveillance anyway.

Better radar + PL-15.

Only if MKIs are not equipped with some I Derby-ER today will the J-16 have a significant advantage. Or we have to wait until Astra Mk2 is ready.

They may already have I Derby-ER. Then what do I know

 

[randomradio]

PL-15E exported to PAF has claimed range of 145kms. The domestic PLAAF version would definitely use better propellant and should have better range than the export variant. Looking at its size, 200kms is not a distant possiblity. Combine that with AESA seeker which means it would be extremely hard to shake off using EW, as it'll have formidable ECCM. This missile has even spooked USAF. It has to be taken very seriously by us, IMO.

With a dual pulse motor and AESA seeker, it's definitely superior to the AIM-120D, so the Americans are facing a different problem.

In our case, hopefully the IAF, in their wisdom, have bought some I Derby-ERs as a stopgap. And we have a sizeable inventory of Meteors.

What's interesting is the PL-15 was introduced in 2016, but the Americans have yet to field an answer for it, but we already have.

DL, Jodhpur has also developed similar RAP and are making similar claim. I think significant reduction of RCS with use of the modern RAP(applied across the body, missiles, pylons, intakes, compressor fans) isn't out of realms now.

These claims do not transfer into real world performance on a 1 on 1 basis. The claims are based on lab tests. Furthermore, reduction in RCS is only on surfaces coated with the paint, there will still remain plenty of areas on a jet without the coating and will continue to contribute to RCS.

They may already have I Derby-ER. Then what do I know

If it's been purchased for SPYDERs without our knowledge, then the inventory is transferrable to the MKI fleet too. It can act as a stopgap if the IAF has planned to replace the R-77 with Astra Mk2.

 

[Tatvamasi]

190kms at 8 km altitude and 340kms at 20km altitude. BVRs travel for even longer distance when launched at high supersonic speeds vs subsonic. Do the math. Plus, real range is always more than what is claimed. There is nothing overenthusiatic about my claims. Astra 3 can even reach 80+kms at sea-level launch. It's going to be a real game-change once it becomes operational.

Dont change the numbers. Tell me whats it for 10km and source for the claim.

 

[Rajput Lion]

Dont change the numbers. Tell me whats it for 10km and source for the claim.

Guesstimate

 

[Tatvamasi]

Guesstimate

Exactly my point.

 

[Rajput Lion]

Exactly my point.

Yeah it was a guess, but a guess based on valid reasons unlike what you're trying to insinuate. DRDO gives ranges of its BVRs with launch speed of 0.8Mach. If Astra 3 can reach 190 kms when launched by MKI at under 1 Mach, it's reasonable to say that range would be "way more" if MKI launches it over 1.5Mach at the same altitude. So what I quoted for 10kms, may even become true for 8kms. Rest feel free to disagree as I could care less.