People's Liberation Army Air Force : News & Discussions

Some capabilities of the PL-15 may have been exaggerated at the time of its official release, and it's stuck. Only that AESA seeker is a special trait, although it should be old by today's standards, at least compared to whatever the Japanese will introduce with JNAAM.
PL-15E exported to PAF has claimed range of 145kms. The domestic PLAAF version would definitely use better propellant and should have better range than the export variant. Looking at its size, 200kms is not a distant possiblity. Combine that with AESA seeker which means it would be extremely hard to shake off using EW, as it'll have formidable ECCM. This missile has even spooked USAF. It has to be taken very seriously by us, IMO.
It still does not compare well with Meteor, which the Japanese plan to use on their F-35, which they decided will be their primary AAM after the PL-15 underwent tests.
Yup. That's exactly what I told Mr. Chinese. Meteor and Astra 3 are in a league of their own. And Japanese are looking to put their own AESA seeker in Meteor which shall enhance its lethality up several notches.
That's a very general claim meant for a non-technical audience.
DL, Jodhpur has also developed similar RAP and are making similar claim. I think significant reduction of RCS with use of the modern RAP(applied across the body, missiles, pylons, intakes, compressor fans) isn't out of realms now.
In the end, the J-16 is still a Flanker and its main survival tactic will require ECM and kinetic performance.
True, but any reduction in RCS is always welcome.
Furthermore, J-16 is centered around multirole/strike capabilities, so pilot training and avionics will primarily cater to that role. It's not as multirole as the MKI in terms of design. Its performance should much more closely mimic the Su-30MKK instead, which had trade-offs in the air to air domain for more strike and range.
Absolutely. MKI was born first and foremost for air-dominance. That's its primary role. With due time, IAF has turned it into an awesome swing-role fighter. J-16 just can't dogfight MKI.
In a 1v1, the J-16 will have an advantage due to the better radar, but both sides have to rely on off-board surveillance anyway.
Better radar + PL-15.
Only if MKIs are not equipped with some I Derby-ER today will the J-16 have a significant advantage. Or we have to wait until Astra Mk2 is ready.
They may already have I Derby-ER. Then what do I know;)
 
PL-15E exported to PAF has claimed range of 145kms. The domestic PLAAF version would definitely use better propellant and should have better range than the export variant. Looking at its size, 200kms is not a distant possiblity. Combine that with AESA seeker which means it would be extremely hard to shake off using EW, as it'll have formidable ECCM. This missile has even spooked USAF. It has to be taken very seriously by us, IMO.

With a dual pulse motor and AESA seeker, it's definitely superior to the AIM-120D, so the Americans are facing a different problem.

In our case, hopefully the IAF, in their wisdom, have bought some I Derby-ERs as a stopgap. And we have a sizeable inventory of Meteors.

What's interesting is the PL-15 was introduced in 2016, but the Americans have yet to field an answer for it, but we already have.

DL, Jodhpur has also developed similar RAP and are making similar claim. I think significant reduction of RCS with use of the modern RAP(applied across the body, missiles, pylons, intakes, compressor fans) isn't out of realms now.

These claims do not transfer into real world performance on a 1 on 1 basis. The claims are based on lab tests. Furthermore, reduction in RCS is only on surfaces coated with the paint, there will still remain plenty of areas on a jet without the coating and will continue to contribute to RCS.

They may already have I Derby-ER. Then what do I know;)

If it's been purchased for SPYDERs without our knowledge, then the inventory is transferrable to the MKI fleet too. It can act as a stopgap if the IAF has planned to replace the R-77 with Astra Mk2.
 
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190kms at 8 km altitude and 340kms at 20km altitude. BVRs travel for even longer distance when launched at high supersonic speeds vs subsonic. Do the math. Plus, real range is always more than what is claimed. There is nothing overenthusiatic about my claims. Astra 3 can even reach 80+kms at sea-level launch. It's going to be a real game-change once it becomes operational.
Dont change the numbers. Tell me whats it for 10km and source for the claim.
 
Exactly my point.
Yeah it was a guess, but a guess based on valid reasons unlike what you're trying to insinuate. DRDO gives ranges of its BVRs with launch speed of 0.8Mach. If Astra 3 can reach 190 kms when launched by MKI at under 1 Mach, it's reasonable to say that range would be "way more" if MKI launches it over 1.5Mach at the same altitude. So what I quoted for 10kms, may even become true for 8kms. Rest feel free to disagree as I could care less.
 
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Y-20B MRTT
 
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Three types of stealth fighter jets star Airshow China opening
J-35A, J-20, Su-57 dazzle crowds with unprecedented performances

By Liu Xuanzun and Yang Sheng in ZhuhaiPublished: Nov 12, 2024 08:57 PM

A J-35A stealth fighter jet of the Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) Air Force flies over the Jinwan Airport in Zhuhai, South China's Guangdong Province, during the opening day of the Airshow China 2024 on November 12. Photo: Cui Meng/GT

A J-35A stealth fighter jet of the Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) Air Force flies over the Jinwan Airport in Zhuhai, South China's Guangdong Province, during the opening day of the Airshow China 2024 on November 12. Photo: Cui Meng/GT


The 15th China International Aviation and Aerospace Exhibition, or Airshow China 2024, kicked off in Zhuhai, South China's Guangdong Province, on Tuesday with a spectacular opening ceremony featuring unprecedented flight performances of three types of stealth fighter jets, namely the debut of China's newly unveiled J-35A, a group of J-20s and Russia's first-time visitor Su-57.

Ahead of the opening ceremony in the morning, people gathered at the exhibition site at Zhuhai Jinwan Airport, eagerly waiting the appearance of the J-35A. The Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) Air Force announced a week earlier that the J-35A medium-sized multirole stealth fighter jet will debut at the airshow, and the aircraft had conducted adaptive trainings before the event.

The PLA Air Force's Bayi Aerobatic Team spearheaded the opening day's flight performance. After a series of spectacular maneuvers by the team's J-10 fighter jets, a group of J-20 stealth fighter jets put the opening ceremony to a first climax.

Four J-20s flew in a diamond formation, before breaking up to perform moves such as small radius turn, large attack angle ascending and close-range two-aircraft flyby, prompting waves of applause and wows from the crowd. Two of the J-20s landed in front of the audience for ground displays.

Closely following the J-20s' show, the long-anticipated J-35A appeared from the skyline. The new stealth fighter jet's debut was brief, as it performed only a few maneuvers like fast ascending, rolling, and turning before vanishing into the sky, leaving the audience to eager to see more.

Zhang Xuefeng, a Chinese military expert, told the Global Times at the airshow that while the J-35A's debut did not feature many aerobatic maneuvers, the debut itself is significant.

The appearance of the J-35A is very clean, meaning detailed work was done to boost its stealth capability, Zhang Xuefeng said, noting that the J-35A's radar stealth capability is one of the best in the world with new concepts, crafting techniques and materials reflecting Chinese designers' new understandings on aerial warfare.

The J-35A and the J-20 have made China the second country in the world after the US to have two types of stealth fighter jets in active service, Zhang Xuefeng said.

Chinese military expert Wei Dongxu told the Global Times at the airshow that the J-35A and the J-20 are a combination of a medium-sized fighter jet and a heavy fighter jet. They can become powerful partners and extend combat capabilities beyond the mere addition of two aircraft.

Compared with the heavy J-20, the medium-sized J-35A can better control cost and be produced in large numbers while maintaining high combat capabilities, winning the advantage in terms of numbers, Wei said.

The PLA Air Force's J-16 fighter jet, YU-20 tanker aircraft, JL-10 advanced trainer jet and the Red Falcon aerobatic team among other aircraft also delivered flight performances in the morning.

At noon, Russia's Su-57 stealth fighter jet, another highly anticipated item, soared through the air. It is the first time the Su-57 has visited China.

Piloted by Sergey Bogdan, the Su-57 made thrilling aerobatic maneuvers including the falling leaf and Pugachev's Cobra, demonstrating the aircraft's super-maneuverability, which impressed the crowd.

Fu Qianshao, another Chinese military expert, told the Global Times that this year's Airshow China has set a record: three stealth fighter jets delivering flight performances on a same stage.

Russia has sent its best fighter jet to China, which is a reflection of the two countries' high level military cooperation, Fu said.

Following the Su-57, the Russian Knights marked their return to Airshow China after an eight-year absence, flying with Su-35S and Su-30SM heavy fighter jets and bringing thrilling performances.

Navy sensations

In previous editions of Airshow China in recent years, the most attractive flight performances were usually arranged before noon, particularly the debuts of new aircraft. But this year, things were different.

The highlight in the afternoon was the PLA Navy's first participation in Airshow China, as its carrier-borne J-15 series aircraft and shipborne helicopters delivered flight performances.

A group of two J-15T fighters and a J-15D electronic warfare aircraft delivered flight performances including buddy refueling. This is the first time these two types of J-15 variants have been shown to the general public.

Zhang Junshe, a Chinese military expert, told the Global Times that the J-15T has reinforced front landing gear to become compatible with catapult launch systems. It also has longer detection range and can carry missiles with longer range.

The J-15D is a dedicated electronic warfare aircraft, a key component of an aircraft carrier air wing, and a significant addition to an aircraft carrier group's far seas combat capabilities, Zhang Junshe said. It is equipped with advanced electronic warfare systems with strong capabilities to disrupt and suppress electronically, he said.

The PLA Navy's Z-20J shipborne helicopter also performed in a group of naval helicopters, making its debut.

Zhang Junshe said the Z-20J is a main aviation equipment for the marines to conduct amphibious operations, as it can be equipped with air-to-ground missiles, rockets and guns to provide strong fire support against land targets while also playing multiple roles in aerial transport as well as search and rescue missions.

After performances by helicopters from the PLA Army, China's C919 and C909 airliners also performed at the show.

With these items, particularly the three types of stealth fighter jets, on display, Airshow China has virtually become the world's most attractive airshow, Fu said.

Foreign impressions

This year's airshow is the first edition after the COVID-19 pandemic, which to a certain extent affected the previous two editions of Airshow China particularly in terms of foreign involvement. Many foreign exhibitors and visitors were seen this year at the event, and some of them interviewed by the Global Times expressed their interests in what China has to offer at the airshow.

Miko Issa Ismael, a senior officer of the Niger Air Force, told the Global Times at the airshow on Tuesday that the Niger Air Force expected to buy some Chinese assets to enhance his country's security. He said that he had seen some Chinese fighter jets and transport aircraft, which he deemed very reliable.

A member of Saudi Arabia's delegation who asked for anonymity told the Global Times at the airshow that "we are here to build connections with our Chinese partners as well as exhibitors of other countries, to learn about the latest development in relevant areas, so that we can help our defense authorities to have more cooperation to boost our military industrial strength."
 

Assessing the J-35A: The Chinese Air Force’s New Stealth Fighter​

The 2024 Zhuhai Airshow presented a deluge of aircraft, drones, munitions, and systems, including displays of hardware in service with China’s People’s Liberation Army (PLA) and PLA Air Force (PLAAF) or soon to enter service. The new J-35A – a stealthy fifth-generation fighter – was most widely covered.

The revelation of J-35A being intended for service in the PLAAF coincided with the Air Force’s 75th anniversary, and multiple different prototype airframes were flown over multiple days at Zhuhai. Subsequent coverage in official state media and on social networks followed, essentially “declassifying” the J-35A, as PLA norms go. At present, the J-35A has yet to enter frontline service.

The J-35A is an aircraft simultaneously both recent in entering the rumor cycle and long expected. This piece will review the background of the J-35A, and assess its characteristics and the rationale for its procurement.

From FC-31 to J-35A

In past articles, I’ve covered the aircraft types that preceded the J-35A. First, there was the original FC-31 developed by Shenyang Aircraft Corporation (SAC) as a technology demonstrator and potential export product, albeit without any PLA commitment at that time. Two flying prototypes and multiple static prototypes were developed, with the two differing prototypes flying in 2012 and 2016. During this time, the FC-31 was sometimes called the “J-31,” but the name was not official given the lack of PLA commitment.

In the mid-to-late 2010s, concrete rumors emerged that the FC-31 had been chosen by the PLA Navy (PLAN) to be developed into a carrierborne fifth generation fighter, with the possible name “J-35.” In October 2021, the first prototype of the J-35 flew, with pictures confirming traits of a carrierborne fighter such as an enlarged folding wing, reinforced landing gear, and a catapult launch bar, as well as other refinements such as an enlarged dorsal fuselage hump and a more complex sensor fitout.

Starting from 2021, rumors emerged that the PLAAF was also interested in pursuing a land-based, “de-navalized” version of the J-35. Over the last couple of years, such rumors began to spread with greater intensity. In 2023, photos emerged of one or more prototypes of an aircraft appearing similar to the J-35 but with a reduced wingspan, consistent with features expected of an air force variant. However the designation of the PLAAF’s variant was still not known.

With Zhuhai Airshow 2024 and the PLAAF’s 75th anniversary, the fighter’s name has now been confirmed as J-35A. (It is unknown what the official name of PLAN’s carrierborne variant will be, but I will continue to use “J-35” until new indicators emerge.)

The J-35A/J-35/FC-31 lineage had a developmental course that is both protracted and short – protracted if one measures from the FC-31 technology demonstrator first flying in 2012, without PLA interest, and short if one measures from the carrierborne J-35 first flying in late 2021.

This family of aircraft has been dogged by commentary emphasizing its resemblance to the United States’ F-35 family of aircraft, with both being fifth-generation, medium-sized fighters with similar wing and tail configurations and dual side air intakes. These similarities have been emphasized in the context of the Chinese cyberespionage operations that reportedly stole data on the F-35. However, the emergence of multiple other aircraft with similar configurations (the twin engine KF-21 and AMCA, in particular) may reflect a convergence of form due to pursuit of similar functions in context of desiring mature aerodynamic configurations.

While it is very much plausible that espionage relating to the F-35 may have benefited the J-35/A program, it is unlikely that gross aircraft planform and aerodynamic configurations would have benefited from such intelligence. More telling evidence might be if the development of certain avionics, weapons, or other mission systems may have benefited from intelligence garnered with the aim of countering the F-35. Alas, confirmation of this matter would require detailed forensics of both the J-35/A and the F-35 family, which is unlikely ever to occur.

Design and Features

The J-35A is a medium-sized fighter with a twin divertless supersonic intake, twin engine layout, and a single ventral internal weapons bay (IWB). It possesses a conventional wing and tail configuration, with the usual hallmarks of a stealthy fifth-generation aircraft such as edge alignment, chines, serrated paneling and doors, and a relatively smooth external finish. Radar absorption materials are virtually guaranteed, both structurally “baked in” and surface applied once it enters production.

There has been past industry documentation relating to the external dimensions of the FC-31, describing its length (17.3 meters), wingspan (11.5 meters), maximum takeoff weight (28 tons), combat radius (1,200 kilometers). However, it is not known whether those figures remain true for the J-35A, particularly the weight and combat radius specs. The J-35A likely possesses an increased internal fuel capacity thanks to the larger J-35-style dorsal fuselage hump. The J-35A is also likely to benefit from advances in airframe materials and structural design, as well as utilizing more refined engines than the original FC-31.

The original FC-31 was thought to have utilized Russian RD-33 engines, later replaced by the improved reverse engineered powerplant WS-13E, with some of the prototype airframes thought to be utilizing a further improved WS-21 engine. However, the target powerplant for the J-35A will be the WS-19, an engine in a similar thrust and size class to the F414 or EJ200. It is not presently known if WS-19 has flown yet on a J-35A or a J-35; there has been some careful imagery inspection of the airframes over Zhuhai that identified differences in engine nozzles, but without credible Chinese language grapevine confirmation, at present it is prudent to assume that the engines flown on existing J-35As are WS-13Es and/or WS-21s. At present it is expected that the J-35A (and likely the J-35) will be capable of supercruise when powered by WS-19s.

J-35/A fighters are likely to utilize avionics of a similar pedigree and sophistication to the upcoming improved J-20A fighter, encompassing modern and up-to-date iterations of a primary AESA radar, sensor processing, networking, and electronic support measure sensors. There is confirmation of a chin mounted electro optic/infrared sensor and optical apertures situated around the aircraft to provide full spherical coverage as well. A wide-angle holographic heads-up display is visible in the cockpit; however, it is likely to also offer a helmet-mounted display similar to the J-20. A modern glass cockpit with a wide-screen display is likely to be present as well.

One feature of the J-35/A to observe in coming years is the specific dimensions of its ventral IWB. There have been some rumors that the IWB of the J-35/A may possess the same dimensions as the J-20/A. This is not outside of the realm of possibility as the J-20/A does not possess a weapons bay as deep as the central stations of the F-35A/C variants, and a common weapons bay geometry would enable more efficient weapons development, fitting, and separations testing. New air-to-air and air-to-ground/strike weapons are known to be in development for use by both the J-20/A and J-35/A.

One “new” air-to-air weapon seen at Zhuhai in 2024 was a folding tail version of the PL-15E, the export version of the PL-15 beyond visual range air-to-air missile. The new missile configuration will likely enable the J-20/A and J-35/A to carry six PL-15s internally versus the existing four with fixed tails. A folding tail PL-15 had been rumored for some time, but it remains unknown whether it will supplement or replace fixed tail PL-15 production. Presently, it is believed that a new generation beyond visual range missile is also in development as well (sometimes dubbed the PL-16 or PL-20).

The J-35A is likely to possess external weapons carriage capability for additional weapons and outsize munitions.

Rationale and Role

The place of the J-35A in the PLAAF is not quite obvious at first glance. While a medium weight, possibly cheaper complement to the heavier weight J-20/A seems intuitive, there are certain drawbacks to introducing a new fighter type, such as requiring its own supply chain for key parts and a new engine type. This remains all the more complicated when one considers that J-20 annual production at Chengdu Aerospace Corporation (CAC) in recent years has grown to approach or achieve the three-digit mark, which is likely to be sustained for a number of years.

Therefore, in the plausible event that J-20/A procurement for the rest of this this decade occurs at 100 or more airframes per year (with a potential ceiling rate of 150), the idea of producing additional fifth-generation fighters on top of this seems rather ambitious. Procurement of the J-35A by the PLAAF therefore can be explained by a few mutually supporting factors, with the above assumptions in place.

The J-35A may reflect a desire by the PLAAF to further expand the pace of fifth-generation fighter procurement beyond CAC’s already expanded J-20/A production rates. This may be particularly important, because CAC is expected to be the prime contractor for the PLA’s next generation/sixth-generation fighter (which I previously dubbed the “J-XD”). That means some J-20/A factory space may gradually transitioned to J-XD production in the late 2020s. SAC therefore can help to augment China’s fifth-generation production, accelerating modernization of the PLAAF in a manner where technology and industry are not as much of a bottleneck as in the past.

Additionally, it is likely that the J-35A will share significant common subsystems with the navy’s carrierborne J-35, offering benefits in both cost and availability. It is also possible that the PLAAF was able to accelerate development of the J-35A by leveraging work that the PLAN had already committed for the J-35, as well as technology demonstrator work done by SAC with the FC-31 airframes.

There is also a valid argument that the J-35A may offer lower procurement and operating costs than the J-20 as a slightly lighter weight fighter. It may also benefit from more modern manufacturing techniques (though it is possible J-20A may also incorporate these aspects). But even if J-35A is slightly lower in cost, the final procurement ratio of J-20/A aircraft and J-35As may be akin to the Flanker to J-10 procurement ratio, which is weighted in favor of the heavier and longer-range Flanker, by virtue of PLA range requirements.

Another factor to consider is the the ability to develop an export-grade J-35A variant for international customers, where potential buyers have the assurance of knowing the PLAAF will remain a committed customer to the type, thus guaranteeing future upgrade and sustainment packages. There may also be industry benefits by providing SAC with increased workshare for the manned fighter segment, compared to if the PLAN’s J-35 was procured alone.

As it stands, the Chinese military has described the J-35A as primarily an air superiority fighter with multirole strike capabilities, compared to the J-20/A, which is more oriented to the air superiority role. This may reflect the greater range and persistence of the J-20/A compared to the J-35A. Both should possess competitive kinematic performance, similar avionics, and similar weapons bay dimensions and thus similar weapons suite options.

The J-35A and the Future

With the J-35/A, China will have two entirely separate fifth-generation fighter families in active production. In the PLAAF, the J-35A will be complemented by the larger fifth-generation J-20/A, and both will be augmented by substantial numbers of 4.5th generation fighters (J-16s, J-10Cs, and J-11BGs). The J-35A may enable faster retirement of early fourth-generation aircraft (Su-27/J-11A/Su-30, J-10A) and the few remaining third- generation aircraft.

The exact balance of the PLAAF tactical air fleet will also depend on how China’s air force integrates unmanned combat aerial vehicles and collaborative combat aircraft (UCAVs/CCAs), which is a global trend and an open secret for PLA aerial developments as well. Finally, the next generation J-XD will also start to influence the fleet makeup of PLAAF, perhaps as soon as the early 2030s.

As a concluding remark regarding next generation developments, an openly fictional, anime-esque mockup (the “White Emperor”) shown for public engagement at Zhuhai Airshow this year has unfortunately resulted in multiple articles written by authors under the impression it is a legitimate next-generation aircraft project. While the PLA is actively pursuing the J-XD as a next-generation/sixth-generation manned fighter (and some developments may be visible on this front in the near future) this ludicrous, anime-inspired fighter mockup certainly is not it.
 
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In fact, the first flight of this aircraft is of great significance, it marks the Chinese Air Force's understanding of the future,
When we were developing the J-10, there were American and Soviet aircraFt For reFerence. When we were developing the J-20, With the F 35 and F 22 as reFerences, now this plane is like painting on a clean canvas, China has changed From a Follower and imitator to a leader and explorer
If the J 20 represents China's technology in the 2010s, then this aircraft represents China in the 2020s, Even the technology of the 2030s,
 
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Today, my Indian friends, today marks an era, a leading era of China's military aviation industry, today is not flying the sixth generation fighter, but a declaration that China will control the future sky,
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Real coincidence I think. Was just on D F B where multiple Wumao handles posted a series of tweets on exactly this & after posting my response there I thought I'd just see out here to check if something similar transpired & voila ! What do I see ?!

Must hand it over the MSS . They run a well oiled set up synchronising moves disseminating information across the world to targeted audiences.

Anyway this is what I posted there -

Your J-20 has not yet been certified with WS-15 TFs & TVC in spite of induction into PLAAF nearly a decade ago & you're just about inducting the J-35 / FC-31 though I'm not sure if they are certified with indigenous TFs which means both haven't yet received its FOC.

Now you're claiming first flight of the 6th Gen & it'd take a good 10-12 years before it receives its FOC . At this rate you'd come out with the world's first 7th Gen within 5 years by posting tweets here showing some contraption claiming first flight.
 
Real coincidence I think. Was just on D F B where multiple Wumao handles posted a series of tweets on exactly this & after posting my response there I thought I'd just see out here to check if something similar transpired & voila ! What do I see ?!

Must hand it over the MSS . They run a well oiled set up synchronising moves disseminating information across the world to targeted audiences.

Anyway this is what I posted there -

Your J-20 has not yet been certified with WS-15 TFs & TVC in spite of induction into PLAAF nearly a decade ago & you're just about inducting the J-35 / FC-31 though I'm not sure if they are certified with indigenous TFs which means both haven't yet received its FOC.

Now you're claiming first flight of the 6th Gen & it'd take a good 10-12 years before it receives its FOC . At this rate you'd come out with the world's first 7th Gen within 5 years by posting tweets here showing some contraption claiming first flight.
Oh my Indian Friend, I don't know what will happen in the Future, I don't know what engine this plane will use, beFore in the J-20, We can imagine that China will work hard to develop an engine that will reach the F 119 of the USA and we will Finish it in 2018. As For today's plane, I don't know, as I said he doesn't have any references, I don't know what the engine will look like