People's Liberation Army Air Force : News & Discussions
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Makes sense. But that means it's not 6th gen, just a lot more 5th gen stuff and more stealth.
China’s big new combat aircraft: a technical assessment
31 Dec 2024|Bill Sweetman
China’s aircraft industry celebrated Mao Zedong’s birthday in style, unveiling three aircraft developments that will comprise an air warfare family of systems for the 2030s and beyond. One, from Shenyang, looks like a demonstrator for a fighter-size aircraft with next-generation stealth, possibly carrier-compatible. Also new was an airborne warning and control variant of the Xi’an Y-20 airlifter, the latest in an unparalleled air-surveillance line-up.
The most spectacular debutant, making its maiden flight on December 26 was from Chengdu Aircraft Industry Group: a stealth combat aircraft that various anonymous commenters on the Chinese internet identify as the J-36. It is the largest combat aircraft designed and developed in China, and the second-largest to fly anywhere in 35 years.
The J-36 (if that really is its name) is designed to combine supersonic performance with all-aspect stealth. That’s also the goal of the US Next Generation Air Dominance program, currently stalled by budget and policy issues. (A second article in this series will look at the J-36’s roles.)
There may be more. Anonymous Chinese internet commenters with better records for accuracy than others say that the new arrivals are part of an air warfare ‘tea set’ and that we have not yet seen the ‘teapot’—the long-expected H-20 stealth bomber; this will probably be an analogue to the Northrop Grumman B-21. Nonetheless, the J-36 alone has given observers enough to chew on.
Its revelation followed the pattern as the appearance of the J-20 fighter exactly 14 years earlier. No technical details have been released officially, and it’s unlikely that any will be soon, but a prototype for the design flew in daylight from an airfield in a dense urban area, and the Chinese government permitted images to be released.
The aircraft was chased by a two-seat J-20B, giving a good indication of its size. It’s longer than the J-20—about 23 metres—and its double-delta wing spans an estimated 19 metres, with around 200 square metres of wing area. (The F-22’s wing area is 78 square metres.) As I commented on the Global Combat Aircraft Program’s Tempest design, large, moderately swept deltas can accommodate a lot of fuel and are very useful if the designer is looking for long range.
The tandem-wheel main landing gear units point to a big aircraft, since single wheel, tyre and brake units are inadequate at weights above about 35 tonnes. The main weapon bay, about 7.6 metres long, and supplementary side bays for smaller weapons also suggest considerable size. A 55-tonne take-off weight is a reasonable guess, two-thirds more than the J-20 and compared with an estimated 82 tonnes for the Northrop Grumman B-21.
The J-36 planform unequivocally speaks of stealth and supersonic speed. It is a modified version of the Hopeless Diamond, the first shot by Lockheed’s Skunk Works at all-aspect stealth, which got that name because it could not be made to fly with 1970s technology. Another variation on the planform was tried in 2003 with Northrop Grumman’s X-47A Pegasus unmanned combat aircraft demonstrator, which did fly. Once.
On the J-36, the diamond is stretched into a double-delta to reduce transonic and supersonic drag. It has a leading-edge kink, a change in sweep angle. That’s not ideal from the standpoint of radar cross-section but, as Northrop Grumman’s cranked-arrow designs have shown, it can be lived with. There is an unbroken edge and chine line around the aircraft, and all sensor apertures are inside it (not the case with the J-20 and other fighters). That is the foundation of all-aspect stealth.
There are no vertical tail surfaces and no visible control surfaces other than the wing trailing edges, with five moving panels on each side and one behind each engine; such surfaces are called ‘elevons’. (It’s possible that there are flight-control effectors that we have not yet seen, such as inlaid panels in the upper surface of the wing.) The hinge lines of trailing-edge surfaces appear to be covered by flexible skins. The outer pair of surfaces are split horizontally to form brake-rudders, as on the B-2 and B-21, and were fully open in all pictures of the first flight.
Elevons have reliably provided pitch and roll control since the 1950s, but dispensing with the vertical tail is a challenge, and more so with a supersonic aircraft. The J-36 can rely on its brake-rudders when it is not close to an enemy. But, for stealth in a threat zone, it will need to keep them closed and use both aerodynamic and propulsive effects to keep the pointy end in front—which brings us to another almost unique feature.
J-36 has three engines, side-by-side at the rear of the broad centre-body. F-22-like inlets of caret shape, with swept and canted lips, under the wing leading edge, supply the left and right engines, and the center engine is fed by a diverterless supersonic inlet above the body.
The three engine exhausts are ahead of and above the trailing edge, which comprises what appear to be articulating panels. Full turbofan reheat boost would impose scary thermal and acoustic loads on the trailing edge structure. (The trenches at the rear of the Northrop YF-23 into which its engines exhausted did not endure the environment as well as expected.) This tends to support the idea that the J-36’s engines are either non-afterburning or have limited afterburning used for transonic acceleration.
Some commentators have suggested that the J-36 has three engines because China does not have an engine design large enough to power it in a twin installation. This doesn’t seem likely. Even if your available engines were delivering only two-thirds of the thrust required for a production-size twin-engine aeroplane, you could build an 80 percent linear-scale demonstrator with two-thirds the wetted area, and it would be both easier to develop and more representative of the final configuration.
There has to be a good reason to justify the added complexity. One possibility is that the two outer engines provide enough thrust for subsonic flight, while operating at full thrust and peak efficiency, and the third cuts in for supersonic cruise.
A variation on this theme would be to have a center engine optimized for supersonic flight, which would deliver some of the advantages of a variable-cycle engine without its complexity and risk (I can hear the logisticians screaming, 12,000km away) but in a configuration that could be fitted later with a VCE.
One former combat aircraft designer suggests that the trijet arrangement could be influenced by stability and control considerations, allowing for symmetrical thrust vectoring in pitch with one engine inoperative.
The trailing edge flaps would provide thrust vectoring in pitch when used symmetrically and in roll with the outer engines’ exhaust deflected asymmetrically (while still using the center engine for pitch). It is entirely possible that fluidic control (injecting fan-stream air asymmetrically into the nozzle) could be used in the yaw axis.
Three engines in the thrust class of 22,000 lb (10,000kg or 100-kilonewtons) should be enough to make the J-36 a supercruiser—an aircraft that can fly supersonically without using fuel-guzzling afterburning. Its sweep angles point to doing this at Mach 1.8 to Mach 2.0 (1900km/h to 2200km/h, depending on altitude). The key is not so much achieving enough static thrust but building the engine to withstand the high temperatures at the exit of its compressor. China’s engine technology has been headed in this direction.
Agility? High maneuverability is in opposition to combining supersonic cruise and range—the F-22 being deficient in the latter—because it demands large control forces and high installed thrust (and the weight it brings). Physics are a limitation: the J-36’s trailing-edge controls and thrust-vectoring systems must provide all the control force for the aircraft, unassisted by vertical stabilizers, canards or pitch-recovery devices like the Sukhoi Su-57’s movable leading-edge root extensions.
As for the need for maneuverability by a supersonic stealth aircraft packing a heavy weapon load and long-range sensors, the reader is referred to the classic movie short, Bambi Meets Godzilla.
We will learn more about the J-36 as it follows the pattern of the J-20 through a pre-production and service test phase. There are other puzzles about the design: apparently large electro-optical sensor windows on either side of the nose, and a dark-tinted canopy that wouldn’t be road-legal in many US states. But one thing can be said firmly: those who accuse Chengdu chief engineer Yang Wei and other Chinese designers of being copyists need to take a seat.
31 Dec 2024|Bill Sweetman
China’s aircraft industry celebrated Mao Zedong’s birthday in style, unveiling three aircraft developments that will comprise an air warfare family of systems for the 2030s and beyond. One, from Shenyang, looks like a demonstrator for a fighter-size aircraft with next-generation stealth, possibly carrier-compatible. Also new was an airborne warning and control variant of the Xi’an Y-20 airlifter, the latest in an unparalleled air-surveillance line-up.
The most spectacular debutant, making its maiden flight on December 26 was from Chengdu Aircraft Industry Group: a stealth combat aircraft that various anonymous commenters on the Chinese internet identify as the J-36. It is the largest combat aircraft designed and developed in China, and the second-largest to fly anywhere in 35 years.
The J-36 (if that really is its name) is designed to combine supersonic performance with all-aspect stealth. That’s also the goal of the US Next Generation Air Dominance program, currently stalled by budget and policy issues. (A second article in this series will look at the J-36’s roles.)
There may be more. Anonymous Chinese internet commenters with better records for accuracy than others say that the new arrivals are part of an air warfare ‘tea set’ and that we have not yet seen the ‘teapot’—the long-expected H-20 stealth bomber; this will probably be an analogue to the Northrop Grumman B-21. Nonetheless, the J-36 alone has given observers enough to chew on.
Its revelation followed the pattern as the appearance of the J-20 fighter exactly 14 years earlier. No technical details have been released officially, and it’s unlikely that any will be soon, but a prototype for the design flew in daylight from an airfield in a dense urban area, and the Chinese government permitted images to be released.
The aircraft was chased by a two-seat J-20B, giving a good indication of its size. It’s longer than the J-20—about 23 metres—and its double-delta wing spans an estimated 19 metres, with around 200 square metres of wing area. (The F-22’s wing area is 78 square metres.) As I commented on the Global Combat Aircraft Program’s Tempest design, large, moderately swept deltas can accommodate a lot of fuel and are very useful if the designer is looking for long range.
The tandem-wheel main landing gear units point to a big aircraft, since single wheel, tyre and brake units are inadequate at weights above about 35 tonnes. The main weapon bay, about 7.6 metres long, and supplementary side bays for smaller weapons also suggest considerable size. A 55-tonne take-off weight is a reasonable guess, two-thirds more than the J-20 and compared with an estimated 82 tonnes for the Northrop Grumman B-21.
The J-36 planform unequivocally speaks of stealth and supersonic speed. It is a modified version of the Hopeless Diamond, the first shot by Lockheed’s Skunk Works at all-aspect stealth, which got that name because it could not be made to fly with 1970s technology. Another variation on the planform was tried in 2003 with Northrop Grumman’s X-47A Pegasus unmanned combat aircraft demonstrator, which did fly. Once.
On the J-36, the diamond is stretched into a double-delta to reduce transonic and supersonic drag. It has a leading-edge kink, a change in sweep angle. That’s not ideal from the standpoint of radar cross-section but, as Northrop Grumman’s cranked-arrow designs have shown, it can be lived with. There is an unbroken edge and chine line around the aircraft, and all sensor apertures are inside it (not the case with the J-20 and other fighters). That is the foundation of all-aspect stealth.
There are no vertical tail surfaces and no visible control surfaces other than the wing trailing edges, with five moving panels on each side and one behind each engine; such surfaces are called ‘elevons’. (It’s possible that there are flight-control effectors that we have not yet seen, such as inlaid panels in the upper surface of the wing.) The hinge lines of trailing-edge surfaces appear to be covered by flexible skins. The outer pair of surfaces are split horizontally to form brake-rudders, as on the B-2 and B-21, and were fully open in all pictures of the first flight.
Elevons have reliably provided pitch and roll control since the 1950s, but dispensing with the vertical tail is a challenge, and more so with a supersonic aircraft. The J-36 can rely on its brake-rudders when it is not close to an enemy. But, for stealth in a threat zone, it will need to keep them closed and use both aerodynamic and propulsive effects to keep the pointy end in front—which brings us to another almost unique feature.
J-36 has three engines, side-by-side at the rear of the broad centre-body. F-22-like inlets of caret shape, with swept and canted lips, under the wing leading edge, supply the left and right engines, and the center engine is fed by a diverterless supersonic inlet above the body.
The three engine exhausts are ahead of and above the trailing edge, which comprises what appear to be articulating panels. Full turbofan reheat boost would impose scary thermal and acoustic loads on the trailing edge structure. (The trenches at the rear of the Northrop YF-23 into which its engines exhausted did not endure the environment as well as expected.) This tends to support the idea that the J-36’s engines are either non-afterburning or have limited afterburning used for transonic acceleration.
Some commentators have suggested that the J-36 has three engines because China does not have an engine design large enough to power it in a twin installation. This doesn’t seem likely. Even if your available engines were delivering only two-thirds of the thrust required for a production-size twin-engine aeroplane, you could build an 80 percent linear-scale demonstrator with two-thirds the wetted area, and it would be both easier to develop and more representative of the final configuration.
There has to be a good reason to justify the added complexity. One possibility is that the two outer engines provide enough thrust for subsonic flight, while operating at full thrust and peak efficiency, and the third cuts in for supersonic cruise.
A variation on this theme would be to have a center engine optimized for supersonic flight, which would deliver some of the advantages of a variable-cycle engine without its complexity and risk (I can hear the logisticians screaming, 12,000km away) but in a configuration that could be fitted later with a VCE.
One former combat aircraft designer suggests that the trijet arrangement could be influenced by stability and control considerations, allowing for symmetrical thrust vectoring in pitch with one engine inoperative.
The trailing edge flaps would provide thrust vectoring in pitch when used symmetrically and in roll with the outer engines’ exhaust deflected asymmetrically (while still using the center engine for pitch). It is entirely possible that fluidic control (injecting fan-stream air asymmetrically into the nozzle) could be used in the yaw axis.
Three engines in the thrust class of 22,000 lb (10,000kg or 100-kilonewtons) should be enough to make the J-36 a supercruiser—an aircraft that can fly supersonically without using fuel-guzzling afterburning. Its sweep angles point to doing this at Mach 1.8 to Mach 2.0 (1900km/h to 2200km/h, depending on altitude). The key is not so much achieving enough static thrust but building the engine to withstand the high temperatures at the exit of its compressor. China’s engine technology has been headed in this direction.
Agility? High maneuverability is in opposition to combining supersonic cruise and range—the F-22 being deficient in the latter—because it demands large control forces and high installed thrust (and the weight it brings). Physics are a limitation: the J-36’s trailing-edge controls and thrust-vectoring systems must provide all the control force for the aircraft, unassisted by vertical stabilizers, canards or pitch-recovery devices like the Sukhoi Su-57’s movable leading-edge root extensions.
As for the need for maneuverability by a supersonic stealth aircraft packing a heavy weapon load and long-range sensors, the reader is referred to the classic movie short, Bambi Meets Godzilla.
We will learn more about the J-36 as it follows the pattern of the J-20 through a pre-production and service test phase. There are other puzzles about the design: apparently large electro-optical sensor windows on either side of the nose, and a dark-tinted canopy that wouldn’t be road-legal in many US states. But one thing can be said firmly: those who accuse Chengdu chief engineer Yang Wei and other Chinese designers of being copyists need to take a seat.
> And this is why i don't debate over gen # with others, wasting time lines after lines, paras after paras. It is like Windows OS Vs Linux Vs VMware Vs MacOS, etc with their own version #. There will always be some overlap of characteistics. But to communicate globally all the equipment need to comply to few global standards & protocols.
> In any business domain, the leader entities dictate the version control & depending upon their span of users/supporters it becomes standard or reference scale. Not just Indian media but the Indian society is more Westernised rather than Easternised since 1990s bcoz Computer Technologymosstly western & our IT boom, etc.
I'm regular Indian citizen so i would obviously inclined to Western classification. If you're Indian then it'll be best for you also to do same if you want understanding with fellow Indians.
(Fifth-generation fighter - Wikipedia)
(Sixth-generation fighter - Wikipedia)
> We're talking about FIGHTERS. Russians developed MiG-25, MiG-31 like INTERCEPTOPRS to cover their vast popsicle icy country, for chasing the high speed SR-71/A-12, XB-70 if built. They were never compared to fighters like equally big Su-3X or western ones. MiG-41 will be built on that idea of Interceptor. So AFAIK, IMO high supersonic speed will be secondary optional feature, not primary characteristics of what you call 7gen. B-21 is being called a 6gen BOMBER but cannot be compared to FIGHTER or INTERCEPTOR. China has come up with this J-36 STRIKE/ATTACK jet, not a DOGFIGHTER, but also 2nd jet which might be a DOGFIGHTER. Some are calling them 6gen while some wan't to wait till more features are disclosed over net few years.
> A Hypersonic jet wil need SCRamjet as we all know & it'll have such a big plume, huge IRS (IR signature), it will be visible from space & ground telescopic sensors, the RF stealth will be compromised.
> Since the days of 1980s, ASAT & ABM weapons have been tested & deployed, that's for pre-planed trajectory. Now Anti-HySo missiles & DEW will be researched to shoot down incoming HySo missiles, that's for dynamic trajectory. I told you that its turning radius would be huge crossing states/provinces. Take example of SR-71 & imagine Mach-5/6/7/8 turning radius. SR-72 DARKSTAR exists only in movies & Youtube animated videos.
> SR-71 is such a long jet & needed repeated AAA (Air to Air Refuelling) then imagine fuel required for HySo jet. if you have any idea then please share.
> It will be best to make a table to mention the most essential/primary features to compare anything. I made a table & shared it & said anybody can refine it. I suggest you do the same. "A pic is worth 1000 words".
NOTE: I've still not marked any feature as Primary or Secondary or Optional. This table needs to be refined.
> It can be seen that few things can be MLUed to older jet but there is a limit when the airframe simply either cannot accomodate new components OR satisfy some parameter like range, agility, etc OR goes against the principle, like a round cylindrical fuselage jet goes against planform shaping. Hence a new jet is needed as per Primary/essential characteristics common in all/most jets of a gen. For 5th gen, stealth & sensor fusion are primary; supercruise, EOTS, TVC would be secondary, hence F-22 & F-35 have both the primary things but lack some secondary things.
NOTE: I mentioned DEW in 6gen, but also mentioned MLU in 5th & 4th gen, bcoz F-16 has been advertised with DEW pod. But this MLU won't make it 6gen.
> So i'm talking based on technical, geographical, geopolitical, economical aspects, not personally attacking you. I'm present on many defence forums but so far you're the only Indian saying India should skip 6gen & make 7gen near-space HySo FIGHTER.
@LX1111 We would like to now Chinese PoV on generation classification. Can you please share a table of features so that we can try to compare all present global jets?
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With every sortie and combat the aircraft will become more intelligent. That's 6th gen stealth fighter.
China's generation oF Fighter jets is basically the same as the United States, the First generation is subsonic jet Fighters, such as F 84, MIG15,
The second generation are Mach 1 fighters, such as the MiG 19 and f 100
The third generation are Fighters with speeds oF up to Mach 2, such as F 104, MIG21, Mirage 3, F4
The fourth-generation fighter aircraft is a fighter that began to serve in the 1970s, with high mobility as the main feature and greatly improved comprehensive performance, such as Su-27, MIG29, F15, F16, J10, Typhoon ，Rafale
The fifth generation fighter aircraft is characterized by stealth and has advanced radar equipment and integrated avionics system，such as J20,F35,Su57,
There is no clear division of the sixth generation of fighters, because whether it is China and the United States, The sixth generation fighter is not a single aircraft, but a combat system composed of many types of aircraft， there is no clear standard
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When France launched the Rafale fighter, it claimed that the Rafale fighter was a fourth-generation fighter different from the f15 and the Su-27, but with the introduction of the f22 by the United States and the promotion of the 4s standard, France did not agree with this statement
Let me say something of my own
1, Chengdu's new fighter is the sixth generation fighter, he inherited the combat concept of J-20,
The J36's superior flight speed and flight altitude in combat, as well as its range under these conditions, fully meet or define the standards of the sixth-generation aircraft. The high altitude and high speed flight capability of the intergenerational advantage makes it the existence of the fifth-generation aircraft in air combat.
2，The reason for using three engines is not because of the lack of thrust, but to better adapt to the maneuverability of high altitude and high speed
J-36 engine should be hybrid, China already has WS-15, But although this engine in order to allow the Five-generation J-20 to achieve supersonic cruise, the outer channel design has been very small, but at 20KM even 25km, IneFFicient, in order to Fly Further at high altitude, the J 36, in addition to two WS-15 turboFan engines, There is also a turboJet engine that provides eFFicient power at high altitude, and a third engine that provides air From the rear intake port. High probability is a modiFied WS-15 turboJet engine with a higher compression ratio, It could also be a more advanced ramJet. In addition to this engine optimized For high-altitude Flight, two other belly intakes used in the conventional WS-15, Also did not use the J 20's DSI inlet, but rather the Caret inlet similar to the F-22, This is another evidence that the J 36 is going to Fight at a higher speed than the J-20, which could be more than Mach 2. Even in the Mach 2-3 range
3，the TVC technology used is not to show better and better actions at air shows like the Su-35 and Su-30MKI, but to improve maneuverability at high altitude
At high altitude, the large air density decreases, the rudder surface effect of the aircraft is significantly reduced, and the TVC can obtain better maneuverability. At the same time, when facing unpowered flying missiles, the fighter flying at high altitude can easily cope with it
4，Why the tailless layout, in addition to ensuring omni-directional -40db stealth, is to reduce drag
Why is high speed so important? Because today, the efficiency of WVR air combat has been extremely low, in Ukraine, even the relatively backward VKS technology, almost no wvr combat
In the case of high altitude and high speed, the missile has less resistance and higher initial speed, which can occupy a significant advantage in bvr air combat
It's probably the best Western analysis I've ever seen, and the rest of us are either looking at sixth-generation fighters from a previous era, It's either pure nonsense and denial of its existence
1, Chengdu's new fighter is the sixth generation fighter, he inherited the combat concept of J-20,
The J36's superior flight speed and flight altitude in combat, as well as its range under these conditions, fully meet or define the standards of the sixth-generation aircraft. The high altitude and high speed flight capability of the intergenerational advantage makes it the existence of the fifth-generation aircraft in air combat.
2，The reason for using three engines is not because of the lack of thrust, but to better adapt to the maneuverability of high altitude and high speed
J-36 engine should be hybrid, China already has WS-15, But although this engine in order to allow the Five-generation J-20 to achieve supersonic cruise, the outer channel design has been very small, but at 20KM even 25km, IneFFicient, in order to Fly Further at high altitude, the J 36, in addition to two WS-15 turboFan engines, There is also a turboJet engine that provides eFFicient power at high altitude, and a third engine that provides air From the rear intake port. High probability is a modiFied WS-15 turboJet engine with a higher compression ratio, It could also be a more advanced ramJet. In addition to this engine optimized For high-altitude Flight, two other belly intakes used in the conventional WS-15, Also did not use the J 20's DSI inlet, but rather the Caret inlet similar to the F-22, This is another evidence that the J 36 is going to Fight at a higher speed than the J-20, which could be more than Mach 2. Even in the Mach 2-3 range
3，the TVC technology used is not to show better and better actions at air shows like the Su-35 and Su-30MKI, but to improve maneuverability at high altitude
At high altitude, the large air density decreases, the rudder surface effect of the aircraft is significantly reduced, and the TVC can obtain better maneuverability. At the same time, when facing unpowered flying missiles, the fighter flying at high altitude can easily cope with it
4，Why the tailless layout, in addition to ensuring omni-directional -40db stealth, is to reduce drag
Why is high speed so important? Because today, the efficiency of WVR air combat has been extremely low, in Ukraine, even the relatively backward VKS technology, almost no wvr combat
In the case of high altitude and high speed, the missile has less resistance and higher initial speed, which can occupy a significant advantage in bvr air combat
It's probably the best Western analysis I've ever seen, and the rest of us are either looking at sixth-generation fighters from a previous era, It's either pure nonsense and denial of its existence
A fleet of advance Su-57M/MKI could most definitely counter all these 5th/6th gen jets of China for us. Only if IAF & Our Gov. wake up and smell the coffee(which most likely they have
).
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A swing-wing 'stealth' fighter in the 2020s looks right out of a sci-fi book to me. What are the odds the Chinese would give the media a no-holds barred look at just this one fighter, while shrouding other programs in secrecy?
Stealth airframe is 1 thing, but it is also radar vs radar, IRST Vs IRST. Earlier it was big big RF beam of entire antenna continiously on like a big searchlight, now it is AESA LPI narrow beams flashing randomly for a fraction of second like a small torch. But a good RWR can catch a narrow beam flash also.A fleet of advance Su-57M/MKI could most definitely counter all these 5th/6th gen jets of China for us. Only if IAF & Our Gov. wake up and smell the coffee(which most likely they have
If both sides there are stealth fighters or not, sensitive RWR + long range IRST/DAS will be very important.
Now we will need bigger aperture telescopic IRST for longer ranges. J-36 may have done this.
But neither side can remain fully passive otherwise radar will be useless.
So this Tom & Jerry game will always continue.
Good pointsStealth airframe is 1 thing, but it is also radar vs radar, IRST Vs IRST. Earlier it was big big RF beam of entire antenna continiously on like a big searchlight, now it is AESA LPI narrow beams flashing randomly for a fraction of second like a small torch. But a good RWR can catch a narrow beam flash also.
If both sides there are stealth fighters or not, sensitive RWR + long range IRST/DAS will be very important.
Now we will need bigger aperture telescopic IRST for longer ranges. J-36 may have done this.
But neither side can remain fully passive otherwise radar will be useless.
So this Tom & Jerry game will always continue.
.PS: Su-57 is specifically designed as 'Stealth-Fighter Hunter', so it's a good enough counter for the Chinese ones. Passive hunting through fusion of IRST and RWR/ESM is its forte. So we don't need to fret over J-36. AMCA also would be very-very stealthy and will be good enough to vanquish Chinese fighters. We're on a good future track. Only a matter of time before our woes start to subside.
Just like we all have different mother tounge but writing in English here, so we need a common scale to measure all jets also. Internally every country/maker can use their own scale/versions.
5gen F-22, F-35, Su-57, J-20 have certain degree of stealth (geometric shape + AESA + RAM + internal bays) + sensor fusion + agility + supercruise + higher electrical power.
4gen jets can be MLUed for AESA, sensor fusion, some RAM + TVC + supercruise, BUT still can never have geometric shaping, internal bays, higher electrical power needing costly engine upgrade
Now what 6gen will have but 5gen can never have? Something which F-22, F-35, Su-57, J-20 & other upcoming 5gen jets like J-35, AMCA, Kaan, KF-21 can never have or too costly, inefficient, impractical? Something which will be common/primary in all 6gen jets, NOT optional/secondary.
> None of above features are mentioned as compulsary/common/primary.
> Some of the above things can be MLUed into 5gen like AI, higher capacty networking, C3, optionally manned, etc.
> Virtual cockpit MLU may not be feasible.
> More internal weapons??? Theoretically a slightly bigger version of all current 5gen jets can be made, but not practically. China has revealed 2 sizes of jets.
> Integrated DEW apertures, needing significant airframe modification.
> More stealthy geometric airframe, bcoz their design is frozen. Technically their rudders can be removed & FCS reprogrammed accordingly but will it happen? I don't think so.
> F-22 is being MLUed for IRST & more EW perhaps. So same can be done for others.
> F-35 was offered VCE/AETP upgrade but now is going under just the ECU (Engne Core Upgrade) for more cooling & electricity, same can be done for others.
> Ramjet missiles have increased range w/o increasing size.
> Last but not least - sub-orbital flight needing SCRamjet, but we can see obviously how much fuel hence big size, big turning radius, big plume hence big IRS such a jet will have.
So it seems we can filter 2 things common for 6gen which 5gen can/may NOT do in MLU - better geometric shape, virtual cockpit.
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It seems your knowledge on how your country classifies your own fighter aircrafts leaves much to be desired & you're here sitting on judgement on Indian fighter aircrafts.
Does China’s J-20 rival other stealth fighters?
The Chengdu J-20 marks the first entry of a multirole stealth fighter into China’s armed forces. According to the Department of Defense (DOD), China views stealth technology as a core component in the transformation of its air force from “a predominantly territorial air force to one capable of...
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Looks like one of those Wumao factory MSS has paid for . Can you imagine a channel based in Germany talking about being a channel catering to worldwide developments in the military focusing only on the militaries of Iran China Russia etc essentially Iran ?
It seems your knowledge on how your country classifies your own fighter aircrafts leaves much to be desired & you're here sitting on judgement on Indian fighter aircrafts.
Does China’s J-20 rival other stealth fighters?
The Chengdu J-20 marks the first entry of a multirole stealth fighter into China’s armed forces. According to the Department of Defense (DOD), China views stealth technology as a core component in the transformation of its air force from “a predominantly territorial air force to one capable of...chinapower.csis.org
Are you talking about this? This standard is too old. Starting in 2022, the PLAAF began to declare that the J20 is a fifth-generation fighter,And announced the classification method of new fighter aircraft through public channels.
中国空军发言人首提“第五代战机歼-20” 专家解析“新五代划分法”
中国解放军空军新闻发言人申进科9月27日在第14届中国航展新闻发布会上说，“中国第五代战机歼-20已经遍布‘东南西北中’”，这是空军新闻发言人首次使用“第五代战机”表述歼-20，引...
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Are you talking about this? This standard is too old. Starting in 2022, the PLAAF began to declare that the J20 is a fifth-generation fighter,And announced the classification method of new fighter aircraft through public channels.
中国空军发言人首提“第五代战机歼-20” 专家解析“新五代划分法”
中国解放军空军新闻发言人申进科9月27日在第14届中国航展新闻发布会上说，“中国第五代战机歼-20已经遍布‘东南西北中’”，这是空军新闻发言人首次使用“第五代战机”表述歼-20，引...www.zaobao.com.sg
I think here is the reason of confusion. J-20 should be better than F-15/16.
F-22 RCS is quoted 0.00015 sqm
F-35 RCS is quoted 0.0015sqm
IDK what Russians quote for Su-57
Perhaps you can tell what China quotes for J-20
Since your base assumptions are incorrect, you will always come to the wrong conclusion.
While the Mig-31 defined its era as an interceptor, the Russians claim the Mig-41 will be a near-hypersonic aircraft, but will be even more stealthy than the Su-57 and will be highly agile at the same time.
Whether you have ramjet or not, you use high speed only when you tactically find it useful. It's not going to be on all the time. The Mig-41 will be subsonic when it needs stealth or has to make tight turns.
So in both areas, you have come to the wrong conclusion.
Btw, the USAF considers the F-22 higher than the F-35 'cause it can supercruise. That's why General Hostage says he needs 8 F-35s to do the job of 2 F-22s. So, high speed is very important.
Anyway, the IAF is going in the direction which I have pointed. AMCA will be the last of their tropospheric fighters, that region in the future will be handled by drones, while the next primary fighter will be space-capable. Basically what I'm saying is an aircraft you are thinking of will be developed, but in the form of a drone, and it won't be the primary "air" superiority fighter. And the primary ASF will be an "air and space" superiority fighter, which will also be a drone. A manned version could be developed and produced in small amounts for testing and special missions though, alongside manned access to space. So the only manned NGAD/SCAF-class program we are planning for is TEDBF 2.0.