Rafale DH/EH of Indian Air Force : News and Discussions

[Bon Plan]

Taiwan might sell its mirage to create space for their f16 blk 70. Should we buy it considering they are pretty modern but don't have a2g configuration and are full interceptors. We could get around 60 of them that's another 4 squadrons. That could free up our mig 21 and the western sector could be handled much more easily...

It was the Taiwan choice to use it only in air to air role.
To convert it to air to ground missions is peace of cake. Just some modes to add to the radar and some heavy pylons to built.

Be carefull : they are more than 20 years old for some. first delivery in 1997...

 

[Lolwa]

Any Mirage 2000s we buy from all available sources require upgrades, so the Taiwanese jets also require upgrades. Their jets can perform strike.

And yes, I am in favour of buying their jets. It's a good way to bolster our forces, keeps the HAL's upgrade facility functioning for many more years, and gives us an opportunity to annoy China. The price has to be reasonable though. And the question is whether we can afford to buy the entire fleet directly and then pay to upgrade them. I'd rather have more Rafales instead, even if the numbers are slightly lower, and will take the same amount of time to deliver. 36 more Rafales are better than 55 M2000s, perhaps cheaper as well, for us. I'd say quicker too, since Taiwan is going to keep their M2000s for a few more years.

But a better option for Taiwan's sake is to upgrade their M2000s and keep them around for their own use. Even the upgraded F-16s aren't as good in the strike role, a role that's very important to Taiwan. Also, they are worried about spares supply, but India should be able to deliver those through HAL and DRAL. Plus, I'd rather not see Taiwan buying Rafales after getting rid of the M2000s, there's a pretty big risk of Chinese spies, the reason why the US has hesitated to sell them the F-35.

The mirage won't be needed once the blk70 come so they still have at-most two more years before they start seeing for buyers. I'm only for the mirage if we could get them under a billion dollars like the mig 29 deal we did. If we could get around 40 aircrafts and do in-house upgrades and use Taiwanese systems too. It could help us. Also the idea of spiting China is also good part of the deal.

It was the Taiwan choice to use it only in air to air role.
To convert it to air to ground missions is peace of cake. Just some modes to add to the radar and some heavy pylons to built.

Be carefull : they are more than 20 years old for some. first delivery in 1997...

Yeah that's why only the newer ones and if the deal is under a billion dollars. Even brazil has mothballed mirages though they are extremely old..

 

[Hydra]

They have around 20 years of body life considering IAF will use till they are falling apart. It's better than using mig 21 and will give us enough breathing space till the mk2 MWF comes online. If the deal is under a billion dollars and we can get atleast two squadrons worth of fighter like 40-50 fighters it will solve lot of our problems. We already have mro facilities of the mirage and IAF likes the mirage more than both the Sukhoi and mig 29. The mk1a will take around 2024-25 to be completed till then we will have the 100 fleet mirage running. The mirage fleet will go till 2030-35. Till then mk2 will also be inducted.

So you want to sabotage IAF plans to acquire a 4.5 gen fighter by going mere a 3rd generation fighter? We all know how much it will costs us to modernize those second hand fighter,we do have examples of Indian mirage upgradation.
Its pity that world's 5th largest economy is thinking of purchasing second hand 3rd generation fighter,when the whole world moves for fifth generation.
And,pls don't give these type of ideas to our baboos,they will ask IAF to go fo second hand fighter today, tomorrow they may ask our force to purchase throw away uniform from abroad as a part of cost cutting.

 

[Bon Plan]

Even brazil has mothballed mirages though they are extremely old

The brazilian M2000 were among the first built. They are not mothballed, they have reached the end life of the frame !

 

[Lolwa]

So you want to sabotage IAF plans to acquire a 4.5 gen fighter by going mere a 3rd generation fighter? We all know how much it will costs us to modernize those second hand fighter,we do have examples of Indian mirage upgradation.
Its pity that world's 5th largest economy is thinking of purchasing second hand 3rd generation fighter,when the whole world moves for fifth generation.
And,pls don't give these type of ideas to our baboos,they will ask IAF to go fo second hand fighter today, tomorrow they may ask our force to purchase throw away uniform from abroad as a part of cost cutting.

Well I want it to be inducted simultaneously with the mk1a. We should only induct these planes if we can get around 40-50 of those in under a billion dollars. Like the mig 29 deal. We are already using cold war era mig 21 as interceptors not even the Chinese with a much bigger fleet of mig 21 use it in frontline. Even the pakistani mig
Clones are facing the Afghan front. The mirage would very well counter all the f16 in the Pakistani inventory and can even take down Chinese flankers. It's 4 th gen and can be made 4+ if the IAF so desires. Please don't underestimate the mirage 2000 they are still on par with a lot of 4th gen planes. The electronics might still be a generation behind in modern warfare terms but the mirage 2000 are still a formidable plane in the Indian subcontinent context. The Taiwanese mirage are not that outdated and we can even access some of their tech if we directly buy from them. The Taiwanese arm industry though not as advanced as the Japanese or korean does have interesting products. There is no harm in buying second hand if its cheap. Like some people were recommending buying jap f15 that wouldn't make any sense but mirages are cheaper to maintain cheaper to acquire and not maintenance nightmares extremely reliable and we already have mro facilities and experience on using these fighters.


The Chinese still don't have a real fifth gen fighter so do the Russians. Nobody is entering the fifth gen era anytime soon. We are still in the era of 4.75 gen of air warfare. It will take 2025 until the Chinese induct a f35 capable fighter in there air force. They still don't have anything close to the f22 in terms of performance. So we have enough time to induct fighters. The Chinese do have frontal stealth but are essentially defensive fighters the design seems like that. Same for the su57 it's a defensive fighter the Russians say that openly. True fifth gen can easily do both offensive and defensive operations...

 

[randomradio]

The mirage won't be needed once the blk70 come so they still have at-most two more years before they start seeing for buyers. I'm only for the mirage if we could get them under a billion dollars like the mig 29 deal we did. If we could get around 40 aircrafts and do in-house upgrades and use Taiwanese systems too. It could help us. Also the idea of spiting China is also good part of the deal.

Yeah that's why only the newer ones and if the deal is under a billion dollars. Even brazil has mothballed mirages though they are extremely old..

It really depends on what the left-over servive life is. If it's just 5 years or less, then the jets can come in really cheap. The MICAs are also due for upgrades. Best case is they simply give 'em away for peanuts, and then we upgrade and reequip them for $1-2B.

But I'd still go for Rafale instead.

 

[randomradio]

 

[Picdelamirand-oil]

So they are in the same boat as India is in. Even we are in need of advanced jets.

Deal of transfer of the 19 old Mirage 2000EGM / BGM fighters to Cyprus after the supply of Rafale?
Greece will give France a number of Mirage 2000 fighter jets in exchange for the "good" sale price of Rafale F.2 / F.3 fighters.

They are obviously the 19 old EGM / BGM fighters. The Mirage 2000-5 Mk.2 will in no case be granted and the nonsense about their transfer to Cyprus is not justified.

The ones that could really do a good job in Cyprus after a modernization program, are the first Mirage 2000 EGM / BGM fighters of the market of the century. The question is whether the Cypriots want to spend to have an Air Force ...

The cost of modernizing these aircraft is about 60 million euros each, based on the proposal made to the PA.

The whole bay is French inspired.

In the meantime, Nikos Panagiotopoulos had a telephone conversation tonight with the French Minister of Defense, Florence Parley, against the background of the armaments and the Turkish provocation in the Mediterranean.

According to information transmitted in the main news bulletin of the Star, Paris is willing to lend to our Navy in the form of borrowing two state-of-the-art FREMM type frigates, until the BELAHRA frigates are ready.

 

[Picdelamirand-oil]

I put this information in this subject because it shows that France supports its customers in difficult times.

 

[jk007]

After the first 5-6 aircraft in July, any more rafales are delivered to India? Looks like, there is a great possibility of war with China. Need those rafales asap.

 

[randomradio]

I put this information in this subject because it shows that France supports its customers in difficult times.

Turkey is challenging French interests, hence the need to prop up countries that are also working against Turkish interests, which also happen to be French customers. So it's not like France is being altruistic.

After the first 5-6 aircraft in July, any more rafales are delivered to India? Looks like, there is a great possibility of war with China. Need those rafales asap.

We will have a full squadron by Feb. We will see more aircraft in October and December.

 

[STEPHEN COHEN]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1303724602795810816

 

[Picdelamirand-oil]

Turkey is challenging French interests, hence the need to prop up countries that are also working against Turkish interests, which also happen to be French customers. So it's not like France is being altruistic.


We will have a full squadron by Feb. We will see more aircraft in October and December.

French interests are very weak compare to Greek interest, Italien interest are stronger than French interest, but nobody in Europe is helping the Greek.

 

[randomradio]

French interests are very weak compare to Greek interest, Italien interest are stronger than French interest, but nobody in Europe is helping the Greek.

That's something only time will tell though. France is really fast at reacting compared to the rest of Europe. By months and even years.

Even for countries in question, they first build relations with France first and then others in Europe. Like the example of Rafales and ships for Egypt, and then Qatar. Having that UNSC seat helps. Qatar's ship deal with Italy came a year later. Whereas Egypt has planned a massive defence package with Italy for ships and Typhoons.

The most recent move Italy did with Greece was fixing their maritime border dispute. So defence deals should follow that, whether a few months from now or later.

 

[A Person]

I'd say that in this matter, France's interests are in taking a leadership role in actual European defense, and demonstrating in doing so that it is a more reliable and trustworthy partner than the USA (who are more inclined to back the Turkish side for strategical reasons) as it is something that can pay huge dividends on the long term.

And to get back to the Indian Air Force:

Rafale jets to be formally inducted into IAF on Thursday; French defence minister to attend event | India News - Times of India

India News: Defence minister Rajnath Singh, his French counterpart Florence Parly and India's top military brass will attend a ceremony in Ambala airbase on Thurs

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

Rafale jets to be formally inducted into IAF on Thursday; French defence minister to attend event​

NEW DELHI: Defence minister Rajnath Singh, his French counterpart Florence Parly and India's top military brass will attend a ceremony in Ambala airbase on Thursday to formally induct five Rafale fighter jets into the Indian Air Force, officials said.​

Parly and Singh will hold talks in Ambala on ways to further deepen bilateral defence and security cooperation after the ceremony, they said.​

The French defence minister is scheduled to arrive Thursday morning and will depart late afternoon, the officials said.​

The first batch of five Rafale jets arrived in India on July 29, nearly four years after India signed an inter-governmental agreement with France to procure 36 of the aircraft at a cost of Rs 59,000 crore.​

The jets, produced by French aerospace major Dassault Aviation, are yet to be formally inducted into the IAF.​

Ten Rafale jets have been delivered to India so far and five of them stayed back in France for imparting training to IAF pilots. The delivery of all 36 aircraft is scheduled to be completed by the end of 2021.​

A second batch of four to five Rafale jets are likely to arrive in India by November.​

Sources said a preliminary discussion on a possible procurement of another batch of 36 Rafale jets by India from France may figure in the talks between Singh and Parly. ​

The Rafale jets, known for air-superiority and precision strikes, are India's first major acquisition of fighter planes in 23 year after the Sukhoi jets were imported from Russia.​

The Rafale jet is capable of carrying a range of potent weapons. European missile maker MBDA's Meteor beyond visual range air-to-air missile and Scalp cruise missile will be the mainstay of the weapons package of the Rafale jets.​

Meteor is a next generation beyond visual range air-to-air missile (BVRAAM) designed to revolutionise air-to-air combat. The weapon has been developed by MBDA to combat common threats facing the UK, Germany, Italy, France, Spain and Sweden.​

Out of 36 Rafale jets, 30 will be fighter jets and six will be trainers. The trainer jets will be twin-seater and they will have almost all the features of the fighter jets.​

While the first squadron of the Rafale jets will be stationed at Ambala air base, the second one will be based at Hasimara base in West Bengal.​

The new fleet will be part of the 17 Squadron of the IAF which was resurrected on September 10 last year.​

The squadron was originally raised at Air Force Station, Ambala on Oct 1 1951. The 17 Squadron has many firsts to its credit; in 1955 it was equipped with the first jet fighter, the legendary De Havilland Vampire.​

​

Tomorrow's the day! We'll see about this "may".

Also, does anyone know what they imply by the twin seaters having "almost" all the features of the single seaters? Because the ones in French service do have all the features of the single-seaters. Just a little bit less internal fuel in exchange for the secondary seat in the cockpit.

 

[TARGET]

Rafale induction

 

[maint1234]

Now that they are inducted, maybe a trial bombing run on Pakistani terrorist camps with the cheaper A2G missiles ?
Iron out the kinks if any.

 

[Bon Plan]

I put this information in this subject because it shows that France supports its customers in difficult times.

If I remember well, never see such french support before.

 

[Bon Plan]

That's something only time will tell though. France is really fast at reacting compared to the rest of Europe. By months and even years.

Even for countries in question, they first build relations with France first and then others in Europe. Like the example of Rafales and ships for Egypt, and then Qatar. Having that UNSC seat helps. Qatar's ship deal with Italy came a year later. Whereas Egypt has planned a massive defence package with Italy for ships and Typhoons.

The most recent move Italy did with Greece was fixing their maritime border dispute. So defence deals should follow that, whether a few months from now or later.

The Italian Eurogfighter deal is in limbo.

 

[vvabhiram]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1303935149936009217