Rafale DH/EH of Indian Air Force : News and Discussions

vstol Jockey said:
The cancellation is for another batch of Rafales. saving that money for rafales.
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But Mig29s and Rafale 4.2 aren't of the same price. Has the IAF deduced that the R4.2 is going to be good against Chinese 5th gen stuff and so will have a multi-decade lifespan with an MLU or two in between?
randomradio said:
Hence the need to continuously keep updating. Even half a generation is a huge difference, whereas a generation simply makes it pointless to even fight.
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Then how can a Mig-21 Bison down an MLUed F-16? Pilot error?
 
thinkingcap81 said:
But Mig29s and Rafale 4.2 aren't of the same price. Has the IAF deduced that the R4.2 is going to be good against Chinese 5th gen stuff and so will have a multi-decade lifespan with an MLU or two in between?

Then how can a Mig-21 Bison down an MLUed F-16? Pilot error?
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No Mig 29 has Aesa at present.
If we want that we have to pay up for integration too
This batch will be inducted in 3 years but rest of it will be retired after 10 years.
Idea if it's stop gap because of existing facilities for Mig 29,
Rafale also has that ( we paid for that already) and it ll remain contemporary fighter for atleast 2 decades unlike Mig29.

Only problem is we will be in queue to get Rafale not in 3 years. That's why I believed we may go for Make in India Rafales with IAF & IN orders combined.
 
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Sathya said:
No Mig 29 has Aesa at present.
If we want that we have to pay up for integration too
This batch will be inducted in 3 years but rest of it will be retired after 10 years.
Idea if it's stop gap because of existing facilities for Mig 29,
Rafale also has that ( we paid for that already) and it ll remain contemporary fighter for atleast 2 decades unlike Mig29.

Only problem is we will be in queue to get Rafale not in 3 years. That's why I believed we may go for Make in India Rafales with IAF & IN orders combined.
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There was some news about Uttam for M29
 
thinkingcap81 said:
But Mig29s and Rafale 4.2 aren't of the same price. Has the IAF deduced that the R4.2 is going to be good against Chinese 5th gen stuff and so will have a multi-decade lifespan with an MLU or two in between?
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These Mig29s were to be upgraded to UPG standard and therefore their cost was going to be high. Plus whatever money is saved, helps in increasing the orders for Rafale.
 
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vstol Jockey said:
These Mig29s were to be upgraded to UPG standard and therefore their cost was going to be high. Plus whatever money is saved, helps in increasing the orders for Rafale.
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So as per your info, IAF will be getting additional Rafales. What about IN? This means that there will be no immediate increase in squadron strength except for Tejas MK1A replacing the Mig 21 Bisons. BJP must have reasoned that we will not be having even a minor conflict with Pak - its good i think.

What about 12 additional Su-30s? Weren't only 11 Su-30s lost to accidents? Will the 12th one be sent to ADA and DRDO for testing and incorporating indigenous subsystems?
 
thinkingcap81 said:
BJP must have reasoned that we will not be having even a minor conflict with Pak - its good i think.
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Heard anything about dinkey & carrot-stick story? We voters are like donkey, carrot is pok & stick is man holding the stick.
But BJP conveniently undermining the fact that china is standing with a spear on our door step.
 
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AbRaj said:
There was some news about Uttam for M29
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I believed until Milspec told us, Su 30 mki will get Russian radars.
Mig 29 UPG radars were also bought recently I think, but not sure .

Maybe for Mig 29k when it's up for mi life upgrade .
 
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thinkingcap81 said:
So as per your info, IAF will be getting additional Rafales. What about IN? This means that there will be no immediate increase in squadron strength except for Tejas MK1A replacing the Mig 21 Bisons. BJP must have reasoned that we will not be having even a minor conflict with Pak - its good i think.

What about 12 additional Su-30s? Weren't only 11 Su-30s lost to accidents? Will the 12th one be sent to ADA and DRDO for testing and incorporating indigenous subsystems?
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Milspec gave info that in 6 months, news regarding Su 30 mki upgrade will be out,
Additional orders if any we ll know that time..
 
thinkingcap81 said:
So as per your info, IAF will be getting additional Rafales. What about IN? This means that there will be no immediate increase in squadron strength except for Tejas MK1A replacing the Mig 21 Bisons. BJP must have reasoned that we will not be having even a minor conflict with Pak - its good i think.

What about 12 additional Su-30s? Weren't only 11 Su-30s lost to accidents? Will the 12th one be sent to ADA and DRDO for testing and incorporating indigenous subsystems?
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The whispers that I have heard tell me that IAF+IN will order a substantial amount of rafale to be produced in India. It is for this that a complete rebalancing of imports have been done by cancelling many import projects. This will result in saving tons of money from the defence budget to go for high Tech imports with very demanding offset clauses. French will be forced to cough out a lot more than what they want.
The DACTS with other fighters of IAF has thrown some outstanding results. IAF is the only Airforce in the world to have defeated AIM-120-C7 in actual combat post balakote and that too with SU-30MKI which do not have internal jammers but by pure maneuvering. This shows the accumen of our pilots. Now Imagine rafale in the hands of IAF pilots with India specific enhancements and how IAF will use them based on their experience with Su-30MKI. Its like going into a battle and shooting doen arrows with a sword. The enemy will have nothing which will reach our aircraft while we will hit them at will.
I only hope French reduce the price further to get the order become big.
Do you guys know that the HUD videos of Su-30MKI defeating incoming AIM-120-C7 were shared with many friendly airforces including French. They just wanted to know how IAF did it. And these tactics are standard between IAF+IN.
 
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vstol Jockey said:
The whispers that I have heard tell me that IAF+IN will order a substantial amount of rafale to be produced in India. It is for this that a complete rebalancing of imports have been done by cancelling many import projects. This will result in saving tons of money from the defence budget to go for high Tech imports with very demanding offset clauses. French will be forced to cough out a lot more than what they want.
The DACTS with other fighters of IAF has thrown some outstanding results. IAF is the only Airforce in the world to have defeated AIM-120-C7 in actual combat post balakote and that too with SU-30MKI which do not have internal jammers but by pure maneuvering. This shows the accumen of our pilots. Now Imagine rafale in the hands of IAF pilots with India specific enhancements and how IAF will use them based on their experience with Su-30MKI. Its like going into a battle and shooting doen arrows with a sword. The enemy will have nothing which will reach our aircraft while we will hit them at will.
I only hope French reduce the price further to get the order become big.
Do you guys know that the HUD videos of Su-30MKI defeating incoming AIM-120-C7 were shared with many friendly airforces including French. They just wanted to know how IAF did it. And these tactics are standard between IAF+IN.
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If we are giving such huge orders
1) what will happened to mmrca2/mrfa tender? Will it be cancelled forever? Once @randomradio said staged purchase will not give any meaningful tot
2) what variant we gonna order? Is it f4.2 version?
3)what will be the additional weapon we gonna get? Do Mica NG will be coming along with new orders? Obviously french people will be ready to sell it, my querry is will IAF go for it?
4) @Picdelamirand-oil long back you have mentioned that 1000kg hammer is proposed fir joint development, what happened to it?

@Picdelamirand-oil @randomradio expecting your opinions
 
It also reflects very poorly on IAF’s ability of tactical awareness and operational planning. If you can’t prevent PAF’s Mirage III and Mig 21++ supported by old F16 escorts, older Erieye and ancient EW assets from raiding army FOBs, its foolish to expect them preventing what PLAAF can throw at us.

They had months of time to plan meticulously and come up with proper tactics and plan to handle any counter retaliation. All we got to watch was downed Mig 21 death-trap with pilot beaten and paraded like a trophy and a burning Mi 17 chopper with dozens of troops dead.

I never understood what prevented this highly capable force to attempt a SAR mission like all other not so advanced forces used to do. Instead they choose to spend that precious time displaying parts of AMRAAM to media in New Delhi.
 
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Sathya said:
FCAS is just at the beginning stage.
Long way to go.

@randomradio

Cancellation of Mig 29 procurement for immediate arrest of fall in squad strength means Next batch xx for IAF + xx for navy is in immediate plans?

Or we can wait until MWF mass production?
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I'd rather see the IAF going for more Rafales than anything else. Mig-29s are of no use.

So "next batch of 36 Rafale for IAF + 26 for navy", that should be the plan. In parallel with MRFA, better yet transition straight away to MII with the 36+26.

MWF is not related to this. It's following its own path irrelevant to how everything else plays out. The funds allocated towards MKI since the 2000s transferred over to the Mk1A, and will again get transferred over to the Mk2.
 
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thinkingcap81 said:
Sometimes i think that you need to change your name to optimistic-randomradio :rolleyes:😬.
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There's nothing "optimistic" about what I said there.

I mean, doing that is easier than what we are doing now. Jumping from LCA to AMCA is of much greater difficulty. And jumping from AMCA to 7th gen is just the next evolutionary step. Especially because a lot of R&D is being conducted by ISRO already, for deployment by 2030, whereas for AMCA we are depending on foreign engines again.

Three critical technologies are needed and ISRO will be developing two of the three by 2030-35: materials and propulsion. Fighter related tech will come with AMCA Mk2, particularly the critical autonomous capability, by 2035. Combine the three, we get 7th gen. Otoh, we are entering AMCA with half the tech yet to be developed.
 
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thinkingcap81 said:
Then how can a Mig-21 Bison down an MLUed F-16? Pilot error?
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The Bison and F-16 are more or less of similar generations. The Mig-21 bis and below and the F-16 are not.

The weapon made the difference. The weapon used to kill the F-16 was a generation ahead compared to what was on the F-16 and the F-16 lacked the defences necessary to defeat said weapon.
 
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vstol Jockey said:
These Mig29s were to be upgraded to UPG standard and therefore their cost was going to be high. Plus whatever money is saved, helps in increasing the orders for Rafale.
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We may end up seeing a delay with MRFA.

An IAF order of 54 instead of 36 combined with an IN order of 26 will give Dassault the incentive for MII. The IN is most definitely going for follow-on, and it's an obvious need for the IAF too. Better than MRFA.
 
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