We don't agree on the threat in the Indian Ocean, Pacific Ocean. We agree to the extent that both want our militaries to be stronger - France never was comfortable with the US's assurances towards Europe while we are thinking about a two-front scenario.
Rafale DH/EH of Indian Air Force : News and Discussions
- Thread starter Herciv
- Start date
-
- Tags
- indian defence forum
We are as capable as France now in terms of aircraft design. We can contribute to the NGF's design. And between 2023 and 2030, we will create a vast pool of experienced testers because a number of jets and drones will undergo testing during this time. What the US and French did with the F-22 and Rafale between 1985 and 2005, we are gonna do between 2022 and 2032 with the AMCA and TEDBF. So we won't be going in with a disadvantage in a partnership with France.
But I think the German and French govts will salvage FCAS.
Is there any BVRAAM that utilities IR cues for LOBL and later at the end can be assisted with onboard missile radar ? Like hybrid targeting system to give minimum time of warning.
@pecdelamirand-oil @randomradio @vstol Jockey do we have any plan to procure mica NG? Is it compatible with mirages?
Lastly, if we get in hand experience with mica NG, is it possible to mate it with Tejas?
Do you really think that AMCA will be close to FCAS. I am so certain that it will be light year ahead of AMCA,, thogh i am completely unaware about FCAS' spec. @Picdelamirand-oil can you pls shed some light on fcas specs?
ADA/HAL have been showing many F22 like scale models of VLO fighter jets since almost two decades and they are yet to produce anything on the ground.
They have been showing wind tunnel models of what is called LCA Mk2 ( which originally was intended to be the actual LCA) since 90s. We are yet to see even a demonstrator of what is essentially an LCA with enlarged airframe and pair of canards for high AOA.
Do you really think that they will come up with even a decent 4++ gen fighter jet in this decade ? ( Forget about F22 copy for a second)
It's an irrelevant question. You missed the point.
When FCAS begins LSP deliveries, AMCA will be fully developed and deployed. So this negates the need for us to induct FCAS. In the meantime, we will be flight testing an aircraft that will likely be more advanced than FCAS for delivery between 2045-50.
The question you should be asking is if the post-AMCA fighter will be better than FCAS or not. AMCA is only there to bridge the gap.
A more accurate question will be: Should we jointly work with the French/Russians on FCAS/Su-57 or should we finish AMCA and then develop a better fighter than FCAS/Su-57 by ourselves a bit later?
We will see the IAF answering this question immediately after MRFA is signed.
The IAF's options at this time are:
1. Su-57 stop gap + long term indigenous solution.
2. Su-57 stop gap + FCAS JV.
3. Su-57 production.
4. FCAS JV.
5. Su-57 production + long term indigenous solution.
6. FCAS/NGAD stop gap + long term indigenous solution.
7. Long term indigenous solution.
Without our own solution, the next window for major indigenous development is after 2060, which won't be acceptable to DRDO. So, to me, 1 and 7 are the most likely to happen, with some minor chance for 6. In fact a combination of 1 and 6 or 5 and 6 can also happen. And 5 can happen only if we increase our squadron strength to 50 or above.
In any case, the IAF's answer is amongst these 7 options.
Mk1a is an HAL product afaik, it doesn't have anything to do with mk2. After all there is a limit in pushing the limit on mk1 to make mk1a.
In which category FCAS will fall? Like f22 wught category or f35 category? I beleive NGAD of USAF will be a successor to f22 & it will be in same category as f22.
Also chances of we getting NGAD is nil. They came with teen fighters to mrca insted of f35, so they will not offer us ngad.
It should be.
MBDA to develop the next generation of the MICA missile | Press Release | MBDA
The French Defence Procurement Agency DGA has awarded MBDA the contract for the MICA NG programme to develop the next generation of the MICA missile.
www.mbda-systems.com
Mk1a is predecessor of the Mk2. essentially same design and almost same subsystems. Doesn’t matter which govt department produces it. Like F18 hornet and it’s successor F18 Super Hornet
Also ADA was formed from HAL Aircraft Design department.
FCAS is apparently in the F-22 class, based on the size of the model released. MTOW = 33.5T.
NGAD doesn't matter at this point. Any stop gap after 2035 will reflect the politics of that time.
If thats the case we should definitely go for FCAS, either jv or direct purchase. Our MKI need a proper replacement, AMCA is not in same class that of MKI. If we are decided to design a heavy class stealth fighter, Our in house engine program also cannot power an aircraft like F22.
As I said, there are many options. It's not as simple as shopping, there is a massive flow chart on how a decision is going to be made.
Within civilian circles, first we need to figure out if Rafale is enough for the 2030s. If it is, great. If not, we need an import. So which import? How many? In what configuration? So if we want the Su-57, do we want just 2 squadrons or 6? Civilians do not have the answer to this. So we need to wait and see what the IAF decides. When the AMCA comes in, the same questions will be asked.
So the questions really boil down to whether the Rafale is better than the J-20 and whether the AMCA will be better than the Chinese sixth gen.
The IAF already have some of these answers. We simply don't know them yet. We will have the answer to the first question within the next 5 years.
Developing a large engine is easier than developing a small one. Considering a post-AMCA fighter will only be taken up after 2035, logic dictates we will have the engine tech necessary by then.
Look at it this way. NGAD, J-XX, Tempest and FCAS are 6th gen aircraft, and will become available between 2035 and 2040. The next time any of these countries work on a next gen aircraft, it's gonna be at least 15 years later for the Americans and Chinese and at least 30 years later for the Europeans. So, while the Americans and Chinese will chase after a 7th gen after 2050, the Europeans will skip a generation and go for 8th gen after 2070. So, instead of making our own 6th gen, we have the opportunity to skip it and create the very first 7th gen aircraft in the early 2040s and take the global lead.
Su-57's is 33.5T. NGF's in that class. Anyway, it's not in the AMCA's weight class, 25T, so the exact figure doesn't really matter.
Engine thrust is a better metric. We've got the F-35 and AMCA at 220KN, the others are well above 350KN, likely even the NGF.
FCAS is just at the beginning stage.
Long way to go.
@randomradio
Cancellation of Mig 29 procurement for immediate arrest of fall in squad strength means Next batch xx for IAF + xx for navy is in immediate plans?
Or we can wait until MWF mass production?
The cancellation is for another batch of Rafales. saving that money for rafales.
.