Rafale DH/EH of Indian Air Force : News and Discussions

What if there are sanctions on India? How are you suppose to replace Ge414 powerplant which we are putting in almost all of Indian built aircrafts.

The F414 is a 10-year program. If we don't get sanctioned before that, and the program is successfully completed, and the ToT is complete, then it will become resistant to sanctions. I don't see India going out of line to the point where we will get sanctioned within that period of time. Even our assumed attempt to take PoK forcefully will involve both Pakistan and China, so as long as we are fighting China, we won't only escape sanctions, but we will get even more help.

But I was referring to the army. We need certain imports so we can create resources and SOPs for using that equipment, so when they are destroyed in a long war, the West can directly replace them and we can put them to use immediately. For example, we will at best only operate 25-50 SHs. But if they are all destroyed, then the USN can replace them one to one in a matter of months. We need that advantage when it comes to artillery.

And it's important to already operate it or we will get stuck like Ukraine, where they don't have anybody to help fix damaged equipment. So about 10% of the IA's inventory should be imported from the US and Israel, two countries that are very serious about their military. We have that with Russia today, although a lot of their inventory is now being used up in Ukraine and have to be replenished.

The army basically needs 80% indigenous, 10% US/Israel and 10% Russian inventory. Our indigenous equipment and industry will be destroyed within a year of the war, so the US/Israel and Russian production facilities and inventory will become our main war winning tech. By then, presumably we would have destroyed China's indigenous industry as well, giving us the long term advantage.

If we end up fighting a short war, then it wouldn't be a problem.
 
What's actually necessary to destroy the enemy on the ground is massive fires via artillery. 80% of the casualties inflicted on the Ukrainians is coming from artillery.
A Sino-Indian war would be very, very different from the Russo-Ukrainian war.
The poor showing of the VKS has intrigued every observer, especially western ones who are accustomed to airpower being of critical importance to shape the operations on the ground. But the very dysfunctional setup of the Russian armed forces, where despite all reforms aimed at promoting joint operations, the air force is still doing its own thing instead of supporting the ground forces, should not be expected from the People's Liberation Army, which is organized differently.

Furthermore, both Russia and Ukraine are heirs of the Soviet Union doctrine which knew of its airpower inferiority compared to NATO and therefore aimed at air interdiction instead of air penetration. So in Ukraine we have two weak air forces and two relatively strong air defense forces. But on the other hand, the Russians have railroads allowing fast and easy transport by land to their occupied territories. So we have a scenario where airpower is crippled, and land power gets a supply boost.

Now if we transport this to a war between China and India, the first, massive, difference is that between the two countries, instead of having a mostly flat plain full of roads and railroads that connect both countries, and where the worst challenge to mobility is that it's excessively muddy in Autumn and Spring, there's a giant mountain range that's the highest on the entire planet. I wouldn't expect howitzers to roll across the border as easily through the Himalaya as they did in Ukraine. On the other hand, the mountains provide excellent terrain masking allowing aircraft to advance undetected and just pop up quickly to throw a volley of cruise missiles before disappearing behind cover again.
 
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A Sino-Indian war would be very, very different from the Russo-Ukrainian war.
The poor showing of the VKS has intrigued every observer, especially western ones who are accustomed to airpower being of critical importance to shape the operations on the ground. But the very dysfunctional setup of the Russian armed forces, where despite all reforms aimed at promoting joint operations, the air force is still doing its own thing instead of supporting the ground forces, should not be expected from the People's Liberation Army, which is organized differently.

Furthermore, both Russia and Ukraine are heirs of the Soviet Union doctrine which knew of its airpower inferiority compared to NATO and therefore aimed at air interdiction instead of air penetration. So in Ukraine we have two weak air forces and two relatively strong air defense forces. But on the other hand, the Russians have railroads allowing fast and easy transport by land to their occupied territories. So we have a scenario where airpower is crippled, and land power gets a supply boost.

While it's true, the issue is neither side can mass enough air power against each other to make an impact on the ground forces of either side. The IAF lacks mass today while PLAAF lacks terrain. PLAAF cannot operate at the tempo required to assist ground forces. So both sides are likely to employ their assets for strategic effect ranging from interdiction to deep strike, while restricting CAS to helicopters and a few squadrons of jets. IA officers regularly complain about lack of dedicated fixed-wing aircraft for CAS.

Add to that, the existence of a very complex and fast-growing ADGE on both sides further complicates CAS and search and destroy missions. A lot of assets will be necessary to penetrate enemy lines during offensives as well.

We have to see what the situation is like a decade down the line, say, for example, the Chinese attack helicopters become more usable in the mountains while India actually gets a lot of attack helicopters, alongside modern Western jets and more precision weapons.

Now if we transport this to a war between China and India, the first, massive, difference is that between the two countries, instead of having a mostly flat plain full of roads and railroads that connect both countries, and where the worst challenge to mobility is that it's excessively muddy in Autumn and Spring, there's a giant mountain range that's the highest on the entire planet. I wouldn't expect howitzers to roll across the border as easily through the Himalaya as they did in Ukraine. On the other hand, the mountains provide excellent terrain masking allowing aircraft to advance undetected and just pop up quickly to throw a volley of cruise missiles before disappearing behind cover again.

Terrain advantage belongs to the artillery though, compared to aircraft.

Low ceilings, fog, and storms common to mountain regions may degrade air support operations. Although, global positioning system (GPS) capable aircraft and air delivered weapons can negate many of the previous limitations caused by weather. Terrain canalizes low altitude air avenues of approach, limiting ingress and egress routes and available attack options, and increasing aircraft vulnerability to enemy air defense systems. Potential targets can hide in the crevices of cliffs and the niches of mountain slopes, and on gorge floors. Hence, pilots may be able to detect the enemy only at short distances, requiring them to swing around for a second run on the target and giving the enemy more time to disperse and seek better cover. Additionally, accuracy may be degraded due to the need for pilots to divert more of their attention to flying while simultaneously executing their attack.

Helicopters negate some of the disadvantages, like the Longbow + Hellfire combo, but one hopes air defences can handle them.

There are other problems too, as listed in this article.

Although it's from 1999, tech has changed quite a lot, but not all problems have been surmounted, like the need for very accurate intelligence or questionable survivability during search and destroy missions.

In India's context, most of our artillery is concentrated along the border, but the Chinese have to come from half a continent away. And we have ridiculous amounts of mountain fighting experience, over 3 decades, courtesy of our friendly western neighbour. We will also have access to Western intelligence, which I hope gets into the right hands quickly enough.
 

India to receive 36th and final Rafale fighter jet from France by Dec 15

The French firm Dassault Aviation is also involved in the maintenance of the aircraft whose serviceability is over 75%

The Rafale is a 4.5-generation aircraft and has helped India regain its supremacy over Indian sub-constituent skies with long-range air-to-air and air-to-ground missiles along with advanced radar and electronic warfare capabilities

India will receive its 36th and final Rafale fighter jet from France by December 15 completing the delivery of all the aircraft it had signed for in an over Rs 60,000 crore deal inked in 2016.

"The last aircraft will arrive in India around December 15. The aircraft was used for developing the India-specific enhancements in the Rafale fleet of the Indian Air Force," senior defence officials told ANI.

India had signed a deal for 36 of these planes and 35 of them have already arrived and are stationed at Ambala, Haryana and Hashimara in West Bengal.

The officials said the 36th aircraft with RB tail number has been provided to the Indian side by France with all its spares and other parts replaced as it was being used for developmental activities.

Meanwhile, the Indian Air Force has also started upgrading the planes to the highest standards and has been equipped with all India-specific enhancements.

The Rafale is a 4.5-generation aircraft and has helped India regain its supremacy over Indian sub-constituent skies with long-range air-to-air and air-to-ground missiles along with advanced radar and electronic warfare capabilities.

The French firm Dassault Aviation is also involved in the maintenance of the aircraft whose serviceability is over 75 per cent.

The Rafale was inducted swiftly into the Indian Air Force at the peak of the conflict with China and had started operating over Ladakh within a week of its arrival in the country.

The IAF also quickly fired and operationalized the long-range Meteor air-to-air missiles as well as the Scalp air-to-ground missiles.

The IAF has also added the HAMMER missile to the Rafale's arsenal as it was required for carrying out precision attacks at shorter distances.
 
IAF chief flies in a Rafale during a military exercise with France claims that india requires 4.5 generation aircraft

Indian Air Force Commander-in-Chief VR Chaudhari said the Indian Air Force immediately needed six squadrons of Generation 4.5 fighters (100-120 aircraft) at the location where the Rafale fighters were embarked during training.
 

‘Rafale-I’ will therefore be an even more enhanced version of the fighter that we finalised.”
 

‘Rafale-I’ will therefore be an even more enhanced version of the fighter that we finalised.”
@randomradio @vstol Jockey Do you know anything about it??
 

‘Rafale-I’ will therefore be an even more enhanced version of the fighter that we finalised.”
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It is heartwarming to read the enthusiastic reception of the Rafale by the IAF
 
Good news..After 2030, the frogs won't have to keep lying about the Rafale's SEAD/DEAD capabilities.

Wasn't penetrating Soviet IADS one of chief design criteria for developing Rafale? That tweet looks like BS. With Scalp and Hammer combined with SPECTRA and the ability to fly low, Rafale is an awesome SEAD/DEAD platform.

As good as F-35? After the latest Swiss report, nope! But bad? Not at all.
 
Lol, I think Jennings is mistaken about the terms being used. In his very next tweet he says:

That's just an anti-ship weapon, not SEAD/DEAD. And yeah, the Rafale needs one. The Exocet won't cut it anymore.
So even after 2030, it won't have decent SEAD/DEAD. Let's hope their next plane does.