If the GoI won't change RoE around SEAD ops to avoid escalation, the only other option is to invest in offensive cyber/network attack and/or EMP weapons to open a safe corridor into hostile airspace. I'd say we were lucky to have gotten away with no/low losses of manned ac to enemy action this time.
Rafale DH/EH of Indian Air Force : News and Discussions
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That's why we need Krashuska and Geran drones to terrorise them.
Frankly, the impunity with which our jets and now drones are striking targets as far as Karachi has been an eye-opener for me. New gen EW systems like Himraj derived from naval Shakti/Samrudika are clearly comparable to the best Russian gear. Won't be surprised if some form of classified network attack weapon similar to America's SUTER is already at play. These ops will dent Pak psyche for a long time to come.
That's barely impunity. We need to see them beg and cry for reham.
Well, we are inciting Pak to escalate thru the use of Drones. And these drones are also the probing mission to locate and geo localise the types of radars and AD set up of Pakistan.
Why we didn't declare full fledged war against Pakistan yet? They already used ballistic missile asper some twitter handles.
They have not used ballistic missile yet. They know it can be misunderstood for nuke escalation. They did use long range MBRLs.
So we are descaling? No neqs of retaliation to pak till now for MBRL attack
You have to learn to accept the normalcy of India and Pakistan, and I predict that things will gradually calm down, just like in 2019.
I told you we are going to start OP Parakram 2.0.So we are descaling? No neqs of retaliation to pak till now for MBRL attack
We are not really interested in actually invading and controlling Pakistanis. We need to take out their airbases and air defence in a week long SEAD and DEAD mission. Then we need to take out the remaining 12 terror sites. Then start operation Wrath of God against the Pakistanis.
Need to take back Haji Pir, Skardu and other easily salami sliceable points.
They won't use ballistic missiles until we do.
@vstol Jockey
When will you agree that Su-30MKI is superior. We have had this discussion between us from 2015 onwards and I told you that we need more MKIs and not rafale. Just wait what happens after this war. We may even cancel the order for Rafale-M. mark my post. Everything same, and Su-30MKI outperforms Rafale. TBT, Su-30MKIs had to support Rafale on 7th Morning. It was the largest airwar ever after WW2. Over 230 ac from IAF involved as strike element and defenders for returning strikes and over 100 ac from PAF trying to stop IAF strike. Tell me one air battle ever which involved so many aircraft. This figure is not about fighters only, It includes support elemenst as well. Rafale has a big problem with Hammer. They need to increase its range. As for its active stealth capability, it is third rate. Kissi din aaram se btaunga ki kya hua tha. Rafale was taken out of active actions. I knw you will not believe it. Su-30MKI did the job.
Rafale was reduced to the job of just Air defence and LCA can do it better than Rafale. Proven useless in strike role.
All of them might be taken to cleaners, Rafale has been an over hype. It is just M2k in new body.
Rafale has no capability of SEAD/DEAD. It illuminates on radar very prominantly with all its weapons. Its approach is known and can be very easily targeted. While same is true about SU-30MKI but its 2 crew set up and highly agile vectors give it a decisive edge in any air engagement. I can say with 100% truth that after 7th Morning not even a single Rafale was used in strike role. Only and Only SU-30MKIs and Jags were used. Jaguar is an ac from late 1960s and perfomed better than Rafale due to its capability to fly really low and pop up to fire a weapon. While SU-30MKI flew high, Jags flew really low and used terrain hugging to achieve a higher radar stealth than even Rafale.
@Picdelamirand-oil @Amarante
What do you guys think? If it's all true, then the Rafale must be reassessed. It will help the IAF assess their own force structure too, as they are yet to start on it.
When will you agree that Su-30MKI is superior. We have had this discussion between us from 2015 onwards and I told you that we need more MKIs and not rafale. Just wait what happens after this war. We may even cancel the order for Rafale-M. mark my post. Everything same, and Su-30MKI outperforms Rafale. TBT, Su-30MKIs had to support Rafale on 7th Morning. It was the largest airwar ever after WW2. Over 230 ac from IAF involved as strike element and defenders for returning strikes and over 100 ac from PAF trying to stop IAF strike. Tell me one air battle ever which involved so many aircraft. This figure is not about fighters only, It includes support elemenst as well. Rafale has a big problem with Hammer. They need to increase its range. As for its active stealth capability, it is third rate. Kissi din aaram se btaunga ki kya hua tha. Rafale was taken out of active actions. I knw you will not believe it. Su-30MKI did the job.
Rafale was reduced to the job of just Air defence and LCA can do it better than Rafale. Proven useless in strike role.
All of them might be taken to cleaners, Rafale has been an over hype. It is just M2k in new body.
Rafale has no capability of SEAD/DEAD. It illuminates on radar very prominantly with all its weapons. Its approach is known and can be very easily targeted. While same is true about SU-30MKI but its 2 crew set up and highly agile vectors give it a decisive edge in any air engagement. I can say with 100% truth that after 7th Morning not even a single Rafale was used in strike role. Only and Only SU-30MKIs and Jags were used. Jaguar is an ac from late 1960s and perfomed better than Rafale due to its capability to fly really low and pop up to fire a weapon. While SU-30MKI flew high, Jags flew really low and used terrain hugging to achieve a higher radar stealth than even Rafale.
@Picdelamirand-oil @Amarante
What do you guys think? If it's all true, then the Rafale must be reassessed. It will help the IAF assess their own force structure too, as they are yet to start on it.
Shouldn't We wait for more information?@vstol Jockey
When will you agree that Su-30MKI is superior. We have had this discussion between us from 2015 onwards and I told you that we need more MKIs and not rafale. Just wait what happens after this war. We may even cancel the order for Rafale-M. mark my post. Everything same, and Su-30MKI outperforms Rafale. TBT, Su-30MKIs had to support Rafale on 7th Morning. It was the largest airwar ever after WW2. Over 230 ac from IAF involved as strike element and defenders for returning strikes and over 100 ac from PAF trying to stop IAF strike. Tell me one air battle ever which involved so many aircraft. This figure is not about fighters only, It includes support elemenst as well. Rafale has a big problem with Hammer. They need to increase its range. As for its active stealth capability, it is third rate. Kissi din aaram se btaunga ki kya hua tha. Rafale was taken out of active actions. I knw you will not believe it. Su-30MKI did the job.
Rafale was reduced to the job of just Air defence and LCA can do it better than Rafale. Proven useless in strike role.
All of them might be taken to cleaners, Rafale has been an over hype. It is just M2k in new body.
Rafale has no capability of SEAD/DEAD. It illuminates on radar very prominantly with all its weapons. Its approach is known and can be very easily targeted. While same is true about SU-30MKI but its 2 crew set up and highly agile vectors give it a decisive edge in any air engagement. I can say with 100% truth that after 7th Morning not even a single Rafale was used in strike role. Only and Only SU-30MKIs and Jags were used. Jaguar is an ac from late 1960s and perfomed better than Rafale due to its capability to fly really low and pop up to fire a weapon. While SU-30MKI flew high, Jags flew really low and used terrain hugging to achieve a higher radar stealth than even Rafale.
@Picdelamirand-oil @Amarante
What do you guys think? If it's all true, then the Rafale must be reassessed. It will help the IAF assess their own force structure too, as they are yet to start on it.
I mean I never thought Rafale or any one fighter jet be a "GAMECHANGER", always thought that it will give us a very good edge.
Did we fail in operation planning or something else? What were the constraints? What were the ROEs ?
I don't know either, gotta wait for the IAF to confirm their plans.
Even if they don't come out and say it openly, we will know the answer by how things proceed in terms of procurement.
Just analyzing the fight from rumors.
Here are the facts.
1) This mission was not a surprise, putting India at the tactical disadvantage.
2) Indian jets were more focused on strike role than air defense, furthering the tactical disadvantage
3) India committed jets to a strike mission without the preceding SEAD/DEAD missions, compounding the risks for strike mission.
4) Pakistan achieved some level of cooperation between their Chinese tech and AWACS.
5) Pakistan's tactic was to spam PL-15s across Indian air space.
#5 is of noteworthiness as it air tech is increasing the engagement range to previously unthinkable distances. #3 is also noteworthy as Pakistan has a large amount of AWACS per plane while India has the opposite problem?
The simplest answer is if we follow the escalation ladder in descending order, last as the first step, you won't find any issues. But it's just not about the fight; it's also done due to the geopolitics to create the narrative. Rafale as a machine has proven itself and it's up to the mark. I hope the IAF is going to order more.
Put in RoE of not attacking military assets as another disadvantage. This was a suicide mission for any competent airforce.
It's astonishing what IAF pulled off here with all those constraints.... Knowing you can't do any SEAD/DEAD & enemy is ready & preparing for you impending attack for more than 2 weeks 
