Rafale DH/EH of Indian Air Force : News and Discussions

A Person said:
Lebanon is a democracy.

And so is Tunisia if, like Americans do, you extend the Middle East to North Africa.
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"Democracies." Right. So are Turkey and Pakistan then.

A Person said:
They actually did, but it's no longer relevant since the country they proliferated it to has later abandoned and dismantled its nuclear weapon program.
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I didn't mention Apartheid South Africa, because as you said, it's both irrelevant and nonexistent now. And there's a big difference between giving nukes to South Africa - which was one of the few well off, non-Communist African countries, and wanted the weapons for exclusively defensive purposes (in case of growing Soviet pressure/influence in the region) - and the way Pakistan has black marketed nuclear tech.
 
A Person said:
Exactly, that's why.

The general public only looks at total cost and number of aircraft. So the more aircraft India buys, the smaller the ISE's cost per aircraft will be.
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And again wrong. Cost of ISE is solely dependent on the amount of ISE changes that are needed, not on the numbers of fighters you order. So no matter if you order 18 or 180, the ISE is the same.
 
Bon Plan said:
You may imagine India ordering 36 more Rafale F3R with indian specifis package (already paid) , with no more air bases accomodation (2 squad per base, classical), at less than 100 € millions each + some more spare parts and some more weapons.
The first indian pilots and technicians to train the newer ones.
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I hope we order at least 36 more, otherwise the Rafale deal would have been an even bigger waste of money, than it already is.
 
Sancho said:
And again wrong. Cost of ISE is solely dependent on the amount of ISE changes that are needed, not on the numbers of fighters you order. So no matter if you order 18 or 180, the ISE is the same.
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Yes, exactly.

So if you order 180, the cost per aircraft is one tenth of what it is if you order 18.
 
halloweene said:
Off info , from the "corner of the restaurant table". Dassault d want to involve more in India and is ready to help for AMCA (win win situation, as same technological bricks could be used for NGF). Don't take it for a given, but it is a vice president level info.
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The MMRCA 2.0 is directly linked to techs and capabilities, that should be helpful for AMCA, which is evident by the RFI already. So support for AMCA is not really a choice of Dassault, but something any vendor will have to provide one way or the other.
 
Sancho said:
Lol nope it still remains 1.3 billion.
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You're thick.

The entire point of a one-time cost is that it gets smaller in proportion to the rest the more items you purchase.

7.87 billion euros for the total deal. Of which the aircraft flyaway cost is only about 3.3 billion, the rest being R&D cost for ISE, weapon package, spares and logistics support, training of personnel, base upgrade with simulators and maintenance equipment among others. The public, however, doesn't care about the details, they see 7.87 billion for 36 aircraft = 218 million per (armed and fully operational) aircraft.

Now let's say India buys another tranche of 36 Rafale. Flyaway cost would remain about the same. The bases are already dimensioned to host 36 more Rafale so there's no additional infrastructure cost, personnel training could be done by India this time so no need to include that in the contract, if no further ISE are required then there's no additional R&D cost either, so we just get to the cost of 36 aircraft and the associated weapons and spares. The weapon package and performance-based logistic support together amount to about one billion in the current deal, so let's say it'd be about the same again: we get a deal of around 4.3 billion for 36 aircraft, which makes the total procurement cost of 72 Rafale aircraft at around 12.2 billion = 169 million per (armed and fully operational) aircraft. It gets cheaper, in other words. Even if you take inflation into account.

Which was the entire point.
 
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halloweene said:
Off info , from the "corner of the restaurant table". Dassault d want to involve more in India and is ready to help for AMCA (win win situation, as same technological bricks could be used for NGF). Don't take it for a given, but it is a vice president level info.
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Tu déjeunes avec des gens bien toi ! :)
 
halloweene said:
Off info , from the "corner of the restaurant table". Dassault d want to involve more in India and is ready to help for AMCA (win win situation, as same technological bricks could be used for NGF). Don't take it for a given, but it is a vice president level info.
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Unless it is JV with private sector , it may take 2 decades to induct AMCA .

Hopefully L& T in coimbatore.

Mk1 ~ Mk1A ~ MK2 ~ AMCA
FOC of mk1 is achieved ?
 
A Person said:
You're thick.

The entire point of a one-time cost is that it gets smaller in proportion to the rest the more items you purchase.
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You lack basic understanding of the matter, ISE is the cost for integration of HMS, Litening LDP, or EW upgrades. You only pay once for this integration and apply the same configration to any follow deal, THAT'S why it's a 1 tile payment and not related to the numbers of fighters.
 
Bon Plan said:
But 1.3 billion divided... is not the same.
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Yes it is, because the ISE cost is not divided by the number of Rafales (that's the total cost of Rafale), but by the capability changes. The more changes => the higher ISE, less changes => lower ISE.
 
No, it's just that you don't understand what's being said.

Let's try again with a different approach. What is cheaper:
  1. Buying 216 Rafale with 1.3 billion R&D cost for custom enhancements.
  2. Buying 36 Rafale with 1.3 billion R&D cost for custome enhancements, + 36 Typhoons with another billion for R&D, + 36 Gripen with another billion for R&D, + 36 F-16 with another billion for R&D, + 36 F/A-18 with another billion for R&D, +36 MiG-29 with another billion for R&D.
You get the same total amount of aircraft in either case, by the way.
 
A Person said:
No, it's just that you don't understand what's being said.

Let's try again with a different approach. What is cheaper:
  1. Buying 216 Rafale with 1.3 billion R&D cost for custom enhancements.
  2. Buying 36 Rafale with 1.3 billion R&D cost for custome enhancements, + 36 Typhoons with another billion for R&D, + 36 Gripen with another billion for R&D, + 36 F-16 with another billion for R&D, + 36 F/A-18 with another billion for R&D, +36 MiG-29 with another billion for R&D.
You get the same total amount of aircraft in either case, by the way.
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You are repeatedly smashing your head on a wall.
 
randomradio said:
You are repeatedly smashing your head on a wall.
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Are you suggesting @Sancho is making up stories? It's a different interpretation. That's all. Sancho has repeatedly called out DA's perfidy in not co operating with HAL , once they were declared L1.

That ate up nearly 4 years of our time with the IAF emerging all the poorer.It's another matter, the FA then built with HAL would've been nearly 3 times more expensive, but the revenue would finally accrue to the GoI instead of Anilbhai ( damn, that rhymed) , which would be the case, if DA bagged the revised MMRCA, with DA pocketing a substantial part of the loot.

While Anthony, MMS and the UPA fiddled
- for reasons they best know , Modi grabbed the ball, helped Anilbhai & DA will be laughing all the way to the bank.

You should be refuting it with cold logic and hard facts.
 
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