Rafale DH/EH of Indian Air Force : News and Discussions
- Thread starter Herciv
- Start date
-
- Tags
- indian defence forum
Singing "Woh subah kabhee toh aayegee" "Woh subah kabhee toh aayegee"
For Non Indians - literally though subah means morning, it also alternatively implies as - "someday that tomorrow will come"
No, that's why the MICA NG upgrade is necessary. The fuselage stations are size restricted, which is why longer misslies could only be carried at the wings.
Contract signature Sept 2016
First delivery Sept 2019
Do the math.
Besides the fact Dassault ruled out ealy deliveries back in 2015, when Parrikar (clueless as he was about the deal, still hoped early delivery was possible).
Contract signature Sept 2016
First delivery Sept 2019
Do the math.
Yes, but Dassault generally does better than his promises, and at the last presentation of the results, Trappier said that deliveries for India would start in the middle of the year. Compared to September, it would be a month or two better, I don't know if we can count on it and anyway it's not much, it would be mainly psychological in the current context of denigration by the opposition in India.
All officials remain with Sept and even if the the 2 months would happen, that's just as much a joke, as the government claim of improved delivery compared to MMRCA, which turned out to be laughable 1 month difference. The CAG report had many informative parts, that cleared a lot of the hoax of the deal and that although it was much reducted.
Christian Michel documents: Rafale delayed because of Eurofighter lobbying and Sweden’s Bofors ‘leverage’ over Gandhis?
Looks like a counter to N.Ram
Looks like a counter to N.Ram
Yes it's because you need ten years to conclude MMRCA against 16 months to conclude G to G.
Lol not really
MMRCA 2007 till 2012 = 5 years (including delays because Dassault didn't provided a complying proposal to the RFP as CAG confirmed)
2012 till cancellation in 2015 = 3 years (waiting for Dassault to comply to RFP rules)
And those 16 months are not fast either, since it again was delayed due to many issues on the French side, which the PMO than pushed through against concerns of MoD and other govt officials.
If Dassault had complied to basic rules, this whole mess could had been avoided. But then again, Rafale would not had been L1 now, if Dassault had provided correct informations.
Yes, you absolutely want Dassault to go bankrupt by trusting HAL, your only problem is that Dassault doesn't want it.
The question was : "it is possible for early delivery of the fighter jets , just in case we need to use them soon ."Contract signature Sept 2016
First delivery Sept 2019
Do the math.
The first plane, at a very near F3R standard first flew 5 months ago....
Yes, you absolutely want Dassault to go bankrupt by trusting HAL, your only problem is that Dassault doesn't want it.
I don't care 1 bit about Dassault, I only care about IAF and facts!
Fact is, Rafale is a capable fighter and was the best choice for IAF back in MMRCA 1.0.
But it's also a proven fact now, that Dassault is a shady OEM, that don't follow rules and tried to play India for fools and that's why the tender got cancelled and that's why IAF is suffering.
The CAG / IM report even confirmed, that Dassault was even worse than I believed and that they should had been disqualified even before the trials. It's crazy how a company can be so stupid to risk an easy win and the biggest order they could have dreamed of, but then again, we have seen that behaviour in other countries too.
India loosed 3 opportunities :
They failed to order more M2000 before the line was closed (just imagine IAF now with 120 more M2000-5 ....).
They failed to order Rafale early, missing the opportunity to be the first export customer (better price, early delivery)
They failed to relax the HAL irrealistic exigences that killed the MMRCA.
And you still fail to understand, that it has nothing to do with HAL, but with govt rules in the RFP.
To give a full quality assurance without the possibility to master or control HAL process was not in the RFP.And you still fail to understand, that it has nothing to do with HAL, but with govt rules in the RFP.
But it's normal that Dassault care first about Dassault and second only about IAF. In a negociation one can say no if your existence is at stake.
So why was the government unable to impose it on Dassault?And you still fail to understand, that it has nothing to do with HAL, but with govt rules in the RFP.
The are no negotiations on RFP rules, Dassault agreed to them, when they submitted their proposal!
The fact that you belive, that you can negotiate your way out of basic rules, shows the problem. That didn't worked in India and also not in Belgium.
If Dassault would care about their interest, or at least about Rafale, they had focused on winning the MMRCA from day 1 and not to mess it up right away, we even pushed you through (although those issues requires further investigations, on the TEC approval) and you still didn't followed them rules, which resulted in the cancellation. The interest of Dassault should have been selling fighters, but they continue to fail for the same reasons and it's Rafale that suffers too.
How? What else than threatening to cancel the tender, can the govt do? Which they did at the end.
Dassault lied, failed or delayed in all these cases. India's interests don't revolve around rafale or mirage alone. Dassault failed miserably in many ASQR parameters. Even our small LCA performed better in some.
Let's not forget those when you list 'missed opportunities'