Not much to elaborate. Since 2009, we have been using indigenous solutions to reduce MKI's RCS.
Rafale DH/EH of Indian Air Force : News and Discussions
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Not much to elaborate. Since 2009, we have been using indigenous solutions to reduce MKI's RCS.
That's untrue and hearsay at best according to the person who works on it in a quite hot sector! Mind it, person did work on MIGs and Jaguars around 2007-10 during initial years of service!
It's so much beyond truth to even deserve a response and everyone knows but still pretend of ignorance! Welcome to reality, thank you.What is amazing is the efficiency of the Rafale: Just if I believe what is written
Total 4x1.5x5/3 = 10
- For 2 Pak F-16 you need 4 SU-30 MKI or 1 Rafale : Efficiency X 4
- Disponibility Rafale 75% Min SU-30 MKI 50% : Efficiency X 1.5
- 5 sorties per 24h against 3 : Efficiency 5/3
So your 36 Rafale provide the same efficiency than 360 SU-30 MKI
A new indigenous RAM paint was developed/introduced in 2009. I don't see it not being used. It was to be used in the inlets.
Not counting all the electronics upgrades that have reduced electronic signature, including the addition of SDR that's happening right now.
But no one had reacted to the image that said that, whereas there were reactions to my little calculation.
I told you about it. One idiot made those comments on a TV debate and he was rebuked also. But this newspaper picked up that material and posted it.But no one had reacted to the image that said that, whereas there were reactions to my little calculation.
First thing, RCS and electronic signature both are very different things. Initial post clearly talks about RCS only. Second point We moving from already RCS reducing to "don't see it being not used". Well, we don't see it being used either. One is assumption another definite. Just saying... Thank you.
Not everything comes to attention, whichever comes need to be replied to avoid giving tacit agreement. However no hard feelings, just saying personal thoughts. Thank you.But no one had reacted to the image that said that, whereas there were reactions to my little calculation.
Your posts deserve that extra attentionBut no one had reacted to the image that said that, whereas there were reactions to my little calculation.
.
Dassault released a few videos. Forum software embeds the links, but you have to see them on Youtube.
First, one about the delivery ceremony:
Then, a longer one about the history of this first Rafale for India. You can get close shots of it at various stages of completion, as well as a reminder of previous Dassault aircraft used by India (including the Breguet Alizée and the SEPECAT Jaguar, which is debatable) and the various political steps that led to this first delivery finally happening.
First, one about the delivery ceremony:
Then, a longer one about the history of this first Rafale for India. You can get close shots of it at various stages of completion, as well as a reminder of previous Dassault aircraft used by India (including the Breguet Alizée and the SEPECAT Jaguar, which is debatable) and the various political steps that led to this first delivery finally happening.
Flying & fighting in the Dassault Rafale: Interview with a Rafale combat veteran
From the perilous deck of an aircraft carrier, Pierre-Henri ‘Até’ Chuet took the Dassault Rafale M into combat in Iraq. We spoke to him to find out more about the Rafale, a remarkable fighting machine, a masterpiece of design and a strong contender for the title of best combat aircraft ‘all-rounder’.
Personal opinion: what should the Indian Aircraft Force procure?
“Pass. I’m not an expert. Recent experiences show, they could do with a couple of Rafale, maybe with full French stuff or maybe working with a mix of a different type of technology is good. French is good because there’s not as many limits as the US (like trade restrictions) and there’s some pretty nice stuff. I think the Indians are getting a really nice advanced version of Rafale. They should just get more.”
What equipment would you like to see integrated on the Rafale?
“A remote jammer that you can carry behind you — I think the Indians are going to get it — that’s something I’d like to see- like a towed decoy. It’s great. I think it would be good to communicate with the onboard systems, you can trick the missiles. And you can be more aggressive in terms of tactics if know the first missile is not going to hit you but is going to destroy your towed decoy.”
From the perilous deck of an aircraft carrier, Pierre-Henri ‘Até’ Chuet took the Dassault Rafale M into combat in Iraq. We spoke to him to find out more about the Rafale, a remarkable fighting machine, a masterpiece of design and a strong contender for the title of best combat aircraft ‘all-rounder’.
Personal opinion: what should the Indian Aircraft Force procure?
“Pass. I’m not an expert. Recent experiences show, they could do with a couple of Rafale, maybe with full French stuff or maybe working with a mix of a different type of technology is good. French is good because there’s not as many limits as the US (like trade restrictions) and there’s some pretty nice stuff. I think the Indians are getting a really nice advanced version of Rafale. They should just get more.”
What equipment would you like to see integrated on the Rafale?
“A remote jammer that you can carry behind you — I think the Indians are going to get it — that’s something I’d like to see- like a towed decoy. It’s great. I think it would be good to communicate with the onboard systems, you can trick the missiles. And you can be more aggressive in terms of tactics if know the first missile is not going to hit you but is going to destroy your towed decoy.”
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Sir need your views on current status of Kaveri engine, current variant of Kaveri in development, fresh proposal of Safran etc. Please spare few time for us.
For Second Time, India’s Top Court Dismisses ‘Rafale Scam’ Petition
By Shiv Aroor, Nov 14 2019; 1:18 pm
After a December verdict that found “nothing amiss” in India’s 2016 deal for 36 Rafale jets, India’s Supreme Court today rejected a raft of petitions asking the top court to review its decision. In its December 2018 decision, the Supreme Court had refused to order an investigation into the Euro 7.8 billion deal, giving the incumbent Narendra Modi government big relief before the inbound national election.
Allegations of corruption and cronyism in the Rafale deal became the centrepiece of the opposition Congress Party’s offensive on the Modi government during the ill-tempered 2019 election, one in which the Modi-led BJP won in a historic landslide. The Rafale issue was seen to have nearly no resonance among voters, though petitioners say that has nothing to do with the efficacy of their allegations. The lead petitioners seeking a review of the Supreme Court’s ‘all clear’ on the Rafale deal include former Union ministers Yashwant Sinha, Arun Shourie and activist lawyer Prashant Bhushan.
Significant observations in today’s Supreme Court include:
‘It does appear that the endeavour of the petitioners is to construe themselves as an appellate authority to determine each aspect of the contract and call upon the Court to do the same. We do not believe this to be the jurisdiction to be exercised.’
‘All aspects were considered by the competent authority and the different views expressed considered and dealt with. It would well nigh become impossible for different opinions to be set out in the record if each opinion was to be construed as to be complied with before the contract was entered into. It would defeat the very purpose of debate in the decision making process.’
‘We decline to, once again, embark on an elaborate exercise of analyzing each clause, perusing what may be the different opinions, then taking a call whether a final decision should or should not have been taken in such technical matters.’
Read the full Supreme Court judgement here.
The unanimous decision by a three-judge bench of the Supreme Court (including outgoing Chief Justice of India Ranjan Gogoi) included a ‘separate opinion’ by one of the three — Justice KM Joseph — that said the dismissal did not preclude the Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI) from looking into any complaints received. This may, however, only be seen as a technical observation for clarity in the event that the verdict is seen as a bar on investigations of any kind.
“I think we have been vindicated. In December 2018 I had issued a statement that Supreme Court has given a fine judgement and at that time some people said that I was being political, which was incorrect,” says Air Chief Marshal Birender Singh Dhanoa (Retd.), who was IAF chief during the entire length of the Rafale storm in India’s political battlefields.
The Indian Air Force found itself drawn into the political trading of charges last year, mounting an unusually detailed defence of the Rafale deal, in a landscape where the military is rarely ever expected to speak in public.
The Rafale scandal consumed much of India 2018-19 election campaign, and was seen to be a resounding failure in terms of political resonance compared with the political capital invested in it. The opposition Congress Party’s election war-cry ‘Chowkidar Chor Hai’ (‘The watchman — PM — is a thief’) was linked directly to the Rafale deal allegations.
It is unlikely, however, that the Rafale saga is at an end. In a country with a large appetite for politics based on defence ‘scandals’, expect the issue to a political hot-button for months to come. Legally, today’s dismissal of review petitions is the equivalent of a door being slammed for the second time on those alleging corruption. But next steps in the story could include curative petitions, scrutiny by India’s Public Accounts Committee (PAC) — and there’s always the possibility of fresh allegations emerging.
On the strength of today’s verdict, the Modi government has renewed allegations that the Congress Party and Rahul Gandhi were speaking at the behest of other aircraft manufacturers, something the latter have denied, insisting the campaign was about corruption.
The first four of 36 Rafale jets were handed over to the Indian Air Force in Merignac, France on October 8 and will arrive in India in May 2020. The two squadrons will be based in Ambala and Hasimara.
https://www.livefistdefence.com/201...top-court-dismisses-rafale-scam-petition.html
By Shiv Aroor, Nov 14 2019; 1:18 pm
After a December verdict that found “nothing amiss” in India’s 2016 deal for 36 Rafale jets, India’s Supreme Court today rejected a raft of petitions asking the top court to review its decision. In its December 2018 decision, the Supreme Court had refused to order an investigation into the Euro 7.8 billion deal, giving the incumbent Narendra Modi government big relief before the inbound national election.
Allegations of corruption and cronyism in the Rafale deal became the centrepiece of the opposition Congress Party’s offensive on the Modi government during the ill-tempered 2019 election, one in which the Modi-led BJP won in a historic landslide. The Rafale issue was seen to have nearly no resonance among voters, though petitioners say that has nothing to do with the efficacy of their allegations. The lead petitioners seeking a review of the Supreme Court’s ‘all clear’ on the Rafale deal include former Union ministers Yashwant Sinha, Arun Shourie and activist lawyer Prashant Bhushan.
Significant observations in today’s Supreme Court include:
‘It does appear that the endeavour of the petitioners is to construe themselves as an appellate authority to determine each aspect of the contract and call upon the Court to do the same. We do not believe this to be the jurisdiction to be exercised.’
‘All aspects were considered by the competent authority and the different views expressed considered and dealt with. It would well nigh become impossible for different opinions to be set out in the record if each opinion was to be construed as to be complied with before the contract was entered into. It would defeat the very purpose of debate in the decision making process.’
‘We decline to, once again, embark on an elaborate exercise of analyzing each clause, perusing what may be the different opinions, then taking a call whether a final decision should or should not have been taken in such technical matters.’
Read the full Supreme Court judgement here.
The unanimous decision by a three-judge bench of the Supreme Court (including outgoing Chief Justice of India Ranjan Gogoi) included a ‘separate opinion’ by one of the three — Justice KM Joseph — that said the dismissal did not preclude the Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI) from looking into any complaints received. This may, however, only be seen as a technical observation for clarity in the event that the verdict is seen as a bar on investigations of any kind.
“I think we have been vindicated. In December 2018 I had issued a statement that Supreme Court has given a fine judgement and at that time some people said that I was being political, which was incorrect,” says Air Chief Marshal Birender Singh Dhanoa (Retd.), who was IAF chief during the entire length of the Rafale storm in India’s political battlefields.
The Indian Air Force found itself drawn into the political trading of charges last year, mounting an unusually detailed defence of the Rafale deal, in a landscape where the military is rarely ever expected to speak in public.
The Rafale scandal consumed much of India 2018-19 election campaign, and was seen to be a resounding failure in terms of political resonance compared with the political capital invested in it. The opposition Congress Party’s election war-cry ‘Chowkidar Chor Hai’ (‘The watchman — PM — is a thief’) was linked directly to the Rafale deal allegations.
It is unlikely, however, that the Rafale saga is at an end. In a country with a large appetite for politics based on defence ‘scandals’, expect the issue to a political hot-button for months to come. Legally, today’s dismissal of review petitions is the equivalent of a door being slammed for the second time on those alleging corruption. But next steps in the story could include curative petitions, scrutiny by India’s Public Accounts Committee (PAC) — and there’s always the possibility of fresh allegations emerging.
On the strength of today’s verdict, the Modi government has renewed allegations that the Congress Party and Rahul Gandhi were speaking at the behest of other aircraft manufacturers, something the latter have denied, insisting the campaign was about corruption.
The first four of 36 Rafale jets were handed over to the Indian Air Force in Merignac, France on October 8 and will arrive in India in May 2020. The two squadrons will be based in Ambala and Hasimara.
https://www.livefistdefence.com/201...top-court-dismisses-rafale-scam-petition.html
Indian Air Force Launches 10-Point Defence Of Rafale Deal
Shiv AroorSep 12 2018 11 18 am
Days after the Indian Air Force leadership went on the record to declare India’s 2016 Rafale deal a far better arrangement than the one under negotiation by a previous government — the heart of a political storm gripping the election-bound country — things went further today. Making its defence of the Rafale deal official, in the only way the military can, a formal presentation today led by an IAF Air Marshal put forth a 10-point list of reasons why 2016 deal was cleaner, better and more economical than any earlier one.
Here’s a slide from the presentation made a short while ago on Wednesday by Air Marshal SBP Sinha, currently chief of the IAF’s Central Command and earlier Deputy Chief during negotiations for the aborted earlier attempt to purchase 126 Rafales:
While the IAF’s current Vice and Deputy chiefs have weighed in on the controversy by defending a ‘beautiful aircraft’, the fact that the officer making today’s 10-point defence of the Rafale deal happened to be the point man for negotiations from Air Force Headquarters during the collapsed earlier negotiations strengthens the salvo. In a series of unusually forthright slides, quite clearly compelled by the current cloud over the deal, the IAF Air Marshal delves into virtually every aspect that has become politically contentious. For instance, he drives home the point that such a deal wouldn’t have been possible in any formulation other than a government-to-government arrangement, indicating clearly that the competitive earlier process was faulty:
He then goes on to affirm that the French government integrity on the Rafale deal, curiously throwing into question (a) earlier government-to-government deals by India (including with the French on Mirage 2000 jets) and, (b) the earlier negotiations for Rafales under the previous government.
Possibly the most powerful statement in the IAF officer’s presentation today has been a counter-attack on politics over Dassault Aviation’s choice of Reliance Defence as an offsets partner, and suggestion that HAL — an intended manufacturing partner in the earlier M-MRCA contest — had somehow been ditched in the current arrangement. Air Marshal Sinha here proffers an familiarly plaintive pitch about the jarring lack of level playing field between state-owned and private sector defence industries in the country. He begins with the provocative suggestion that political parties raise no objections to India spending billions on equipment sourced from private companies abroad:
Taking further its counter that to the suggestion that India’s state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) was ‘ejected’ from the Rafale proceedings in 2016, the IAF has also for the first time officially confirmed the well known rift between Dassault and HAL that notoriously stalled the M-MRCA in its final leg. Terming them ‘irresolvable differences’, the IAF will likely have only fed the political fire that’s burning.
The Rafale is a contender for the Indian Air Force’s 114 Make-in-India fighter program, a project in which the winning aircraft will need to built in India at a new facility. The Rafale is also a prospective contender for the Indian Navy’s requirement of 57 carrier-borne fighter jets for its future aircraft carriers.
The Indian Air Force’s staunch and well-defined defence of the Rafale comes a day after a civil society grouping of two former Union ministers of the ruling Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) and well-known lawyer Prashant Bhushan accused the government of firing off the shoulders of the Indian Air Force, and that ‘brave men and women in uniform’ had been enlisted to defend the Rafale deal.
It won’t be surprising if politicians attacking the Rafale deal now accuse the government of manipulating the Indian Air Force into entering a conversation it would rather not have anything to do with. And this will be alongside discomfort over the idea of the Indian Air Force stepping at all into the daily crossfire between India’s ruling and opposition parties. As an Indian Air Force team readies to depart for France to scope out the first Indian Rafale that enters flight test this month, one thing is certain: an an election year, there are no bench-warmers.
[Slide Grabs Courtesy Snehesh Alex Philip]
Don't know why pictures don't appear!
Shiv AroorSep 12 2018 11 18 am
Days after the Indian Air Force leadership went on the record to declare India’s 2016 Rafale deal a far better arrangement than the one under negotiation by a previous government — the heart of a political storm gripping the election-bound country — things went further today. Making its defence of the Rafale deal official, in the only way the military can, a formal presentation today led by an IAF Air Marshal put forth a 10-point list of reasons why 2016 deal was cleaner, better and more economical than any earlier one.
Here’s a slide from the presentation made a short while ago on Wednesday by Air Marshal SBP Sinha, currently chief of the IAF’s Central Command and earlier Deputy Chief during negotiations for the aborted earlier attempt to purchase 126 Rafales:
While the IAF’s current Vice and Deputy chiefs have weighed in on the controversy by defending a ‘beautiful aircraft’, the fact that the officer making today’s 10-point defence of the Rafale deal happened to be the point man for negotiations from Air Force Headquarters during the collapsed earlier negotiations strengthens the salvo. In a series of unusually forthright slides, quite clearly compelled by the current cloud over the deal, the IAF Air Marshal delves into virtually every aspect that has become politically contentious. For instance, he drives home the point that such a deal wouldn’t have been possible in any formulation other than a government-to-government arrangement, indicating clearly that the competitive earlier process was faulty:
He then goes on to affirm that the French government integrity on the Rafale deal, curiously throwing into question (a) earlier government-to-government deals by India (including with the French on Mirage 2000 jets) and, (b) the earlier negotiations for Rafales under the previous government.
Possibly the most powerful statement in the IAF officer’s presentation today has been a counter-attack on politics over Dassault Aviation’s choice of Reliance Defence as an offsets partner, and suggestion that HAL — an intended manufacturing partner in the earlier M-MRCA contest — had somehow been ditched in the current arrangement. Air Marshal Sinha here proffers an familiarly plaintive pitch about the jarring lack of level playing field between state-owned and private sector defence industries in the country. He begins with the provocative suggestion that political parties raise no objections to India spending billions on equipment sourced from private companies abroad:
Taking further its counter that to the suggestion that India’s state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) was ‘ejected’ from the Rafale proceedings in 2016, the IAF has also for the first time officially confirmed the well known rift between Dassault and HAL that notoriously stalled the M-MRCA in its final leg. Terming them ‘irresolvable differences’, the IAF will likely have only fed the political fire that’s burning.
The Rafale is a contender for the Indian Air Force’s 114 Make-in-India fighter program, a project in which the winning aircraft will need to built in India at a new facility. The Rafale is also a prospective contender for the Indian Navy’s requirement of 57 carrier-borne fighter jets for its future aircraft carriers.
The Indian Air Force’s staunch and well-defined defence of the Rafale comes a day after a civil society grouping of two former Union ministers of the ruling Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) and well-known lawyer Prashant Bhushan accused the government of firing off the shoulders of the Indian Air Force, and that ‘brave men and women in uniform’ had been enlisted to defend the Rafale deal.
It won’t be surprising if politicians attacking the Rafale deal now accuse the government of manipulating the Indian Air Force into entering a conversation it would rather not have anything to do with. And this will be alongside discomfort over the idea of the Indian Air Force stepping at all into the daily crossfire between India’s ruling and opposition parties. As an Indian Air Force team readies to depart for France to scope out the first Indian Rafale that enters flight test this month, one thing is certain: an an election year, there are no bench-warmers.
[Slide Grabs Courtesy Snehesh Alex Philip]
Don't know why pictures don't appear!
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Opposition had latched on to a red herring and it ended up blowing up on its face. Another reason why i think congress doesn't take politics seriously.
You have to post the pictures individually, copy paste from the website works as long as the pics aren't too big. I've had that problem many times. Mods should really take a look at this.