Rafale DH/EH of Indian Air Force : News and Discussions
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He is very timid in his forecasts: the first contract for 36 Rafale was for 7.9 billion, one can subtract 1.7 billion for the equipment of two bases and 1.8 billion for developments specific to India. This gives us a price of less than 4.4 billion. Or it means that we would have to equip new bases or develop other functions specific to India?
Picture from one of the PAF training institutes. Our boys are already studying Rafale in detail as professional cariculum .
The jets all capabilities will be studied in detail and war plans made accordingly.
The jets all capabilities will be studied in detail and war plans made accordingly.
And? Any thing special about it?
FYI, Parts of F-16s are MANUFACTURED in India now. And yes, India has way more access to F-16 innards than Pakistan can ever have of Rafale.
Does it matter? Very less.
Will 4.4 billion that also include price of weapons carried and spares?
At 4.4 billion for 36 works around 123 million per bird.
3.52B for the jets. 0.35B for 5 years spares. 0.71B for weapons. Add some inflation to this. So about 4.6B euros + inflation for the jets alone. The remaining amount was for infrastructure and customisation. So a follow-on deal with the same configuration shouldn't cost more than $5.5B.
Costs will increase if the IAF want another base and new set of customisations. Or even if the Rafale F4.1/4.2 is chosen instead of F3R.
In RS perhaps there is some inflation but in Euro inflation is less than 1% in France. So infation impact is 4.4 ---> 4.55 including Plane, PBL, and Weapon.
By the way 0.352 is not for spare but for PBL: Performance Based Logistic.
It comes up to 10,000 euro CPFH for a year per Rafale for 5 years. Or Euro 2M per Rafale per year. So those should be spares for 5 years.
No the PBL is something that you have to add to the normal CPFH, it is to increase availability. In order to improve availability, spare parts must be available quickly and a large work force must be available immediately. The additional cost is the capital cost of having a stock of spare parts at the foot of the aircraft and organizing teams of supernumerary technicians who accept constraints in exchange for financial benefits.
What is important is how much aircraft are able to take off at any time.
If the normal availability is around 50 % it will be 18 Aircraft, If PBL availability is 75% it will be 27 aircraft and if it is 90 % 32 aircrafts will be able to take off at any time.
To get the same performance with the normal availability you will need to buy 54 or 64 aircrafts and it will take several years more.
This approach will add to the CPFH but decrease the invested capital.
It will add to the CPFH €352 Million/(36*5*250) = 7822 €
It will decrease the invested capital by 1.638 Billion or 2.548 Billion.
75% availability is the minimum performance of PBL contract (with penality) and 90% is Dassault objective.
The contract is for 5 years with possible extension.
I know all this, but I don't know how this would make any difference. Any future contract will also consider PBL of 5 years, hence the cost will be the same + inflation. So 352M + inflation. PBL is the reason why the IAF accepted 18 aircraft versus their usual 21. Normally it would be 42 aircraft in total if you consider lower availability figures.
As for 75% target and Dassault's 90% goal, that's based on the same amount of spares available. Meaning, govt desires 75% availability with 352M worth of spares while Dassault plans to achieve 90% with 352M of spares. But we still have to pay 352M.
36 Rafales Not Enough to Beat Pakistan Air Force: Indian Air Force Chief
Indian Air Force chief Rakesh Kumar Bhadauria has issued a strong warning to the political leaders of India, as $7.8billion Rafale jet is insufficient to meet the country’s defence requirements. India previously signed a $7.8billion contract with French Dassault Aviation to buy the aircraft in 2019.
However, Indian Air Force (IAF) veteran, Vijainder Thakur, believes it is the best aircraft in the forces’ inventory now. He said: “The IAF allowed itself to be outgunned by focusing on platform acquisitions, rather than weapon system and sensor upgrades. The technical advantage gained by the IAF through the acquisition of the Rafale would be transient because it would be based largely on the weapon systems and sensors of the Rafale.
“With sufficient military foresight, the IAF could have armed its Su-30MKI with longer range air-to-air missiles acquired from Russia rather than continuing to rely on the lesser ranged missile ordered years ago from Ukraine.
“The IAF fulfilled the expectations only after it made an emergency purchase of Laser-Guided Bombs and targeting pods.”
However, a determined nemesis like the Pakistan Air Force could deploy longer-ranged Chinese PL-15 missiles on an updated version of the JF-17 jet.
36 Rafales Not Enough to Beat Pakistan Air Force: Indian Air Force Chief
JF-17 vs Rafale: Why Pakistani JF-17 Thunder Poses A Serious Threat To Indian Rafale Fighter Jets?
According to the Global Times and secondary research by the EurAsian Times, the latest, powered-up version of the JF-17 fighter jet reportedly features technologies from China’s high-end J-20 fighter jet that will immensely boost its combat efficiency.
According to pictures disseminated on various social media platform, the JF-17 aircraft is installed with many commercial off-the-shelf technologies from the state-owned Aviation Industry Corporation of China.
These include a new and larger holographic wide-angle head-up display and integrated cockpit display comparable to the one used by the J-20, in addition to an advanced infrared missile approach warning system used by J-20 fighter jets.
Analysts said the new additions to the JF-17 can give pilots more situational awareness, permitting them to concentrate more on combat instead of flying the aircraft. In March 2019, Yang Wei, chief designer of the fighter jet, said development and production of the JF-17 Block 3 were underway, and the third block will see the JF-17’s information-based warfare capability and weapons enhanced.
PL-15 Missiles For JF-17 ::
The reports regarding the deployment of longer-ranged Chinese PL-15 missiles on an upgraded JF-17 jet have caused anxiety in the Indian Air Force. Global Times earlier reported that the upgraded JF-17 will host an infrared search and track system along with a cross-section radar that lessens the pseudo-stealthy airframe. The PL-15’s beyond visual range missile has reportedly also caused serious worry in the Pentagon.
The PL-15’s striking range in actual aerial engagements is definitely lower than the maximum range 300 km but is nevertheless much greater than its US’ AIM-120 AMRAAM estimated to be approximately 180 km.
US general Herbert Carlisle voiced serious concerns in 2015 when the development of the PL-15 entered the public domain: “Look at our adversaries and what they’re developing, things like the PL-15 and the range of that weapon.” General Carlisle raised the same issue in an interview with FlightGlobal: “The PL-15 and the range of that missile, we’ve got to be able to out-stick that missile.”
The PL-15 missile, which is a radar-guided weapon, is advertised as having a greater range than both US-built AMRAAM and the Russian R-77, which is in service with the Indian Air Force.
With a length of over 4metres, the PL-15 is much longer than the AMRAAM and has a powerful radar and rocket motor. Experts writing for EurAsian Times maintain that the fundamental role of the PL-15 is to demolish ‘high-value’ targets such as airborne early-warning aircraft (AWACS) and aerial refuelling aircraft, which could handicap any opponent including the US.
The PL-15 uses a conventional rocket motor, unlike the Meteor missile which will be used by the Rafale fighter jets for the IAF. The Meteor has a stated range of “well in excess of 150km” according to its manufacturers but is also smaller in length than the PL-15.
Therefore, experts talking to the EurAsian Times conclude that the PL-15 has greater range than the Meteor on account of its higher fuel capacity and poses a serious threat to the French origin jets which will be operated by the Indian Air Force
JF-17 vs Rafale: Why Pakistani JF-17 Thunder Poses A Serious Threat To Indian Rafale Fighter Jets?
Indian Air Force chief Rakesh Kumar Bhadauria has issued a strong warning to the political leaders of India, as $7.8billion Rafale jet is insufficient to meet the country’s defence requirements. India previously signed a $7.8billion contract with French Dassault Aviation to buy the aircraft in 2019.
However, Indian Air Force (IAF) veteran, Vijainder Thakur, believes it is the best aircraft in the forces’ inventory now. He said: “The IAF allowed itself to be outgunned by focusing on platform acquisitions, rather than weapon system and sensor upgrades. The technical advantage gained by the IAF through the acquisition of the Rafale would be transient because it would be based largely on the weapon systems and sensors of the Rafale.
“With sufficient military foresight, the IAF could have armed its Su-30MKI with longer range air-to-air missiles acquired from Russia rather than continuing to rely on the lesser ranged missile ordered years ago from Ukraine.
“The IAF fulfilled the expectations only after it made an emergency purchase of Laser-Guided Bombs and targeting pods.”
However, a determined nemesis like the Pakistan Air Force could deploy longer-ranged Chinese PL-15 missiles on an updated version of the JF-17 jet.
36 Rafales Not Enough to Beat Pakistan Air Force: Indian Air Force Chief
JF-17 vs Rafale: Why Pakistani JF-17 Thunder Poses A Serious Threat To Indian Rafale Fighter Jets?
According to the Global Times and secondary research by the EurAsian Times, the latest, powered-up version of the JF-17 fighter jet reportedly features technologies from China’s high-end J-20 fighter jet that will immensely boost its combat efficiency.
According to pictures disseminated on various social media platform, the JF-17 aircraft is installed with many commercial off-the-shelf technologies from the state-owned Aviation Industry Corporation of China.
These include a new and larger holographic wide-angle head-up display and integrated cockpit display comparable to the one used by the J-20, in addition to an advanced infrared missile approach warning system used by J-20 fighter jets.
Analysts said the new additions to the JF-17 can give pilots more situational awareness, permitting them to concentrate more on combat instead of flying the aircraft. In March 2019, Yang Wei, chief designer of the fighter jet, said development and production of the JF-17 Block 3 were underway, and the third block will see the JF-17’s information-based warfare capability and weapons enhanced.
PL-15 Missiles For JF-17 ::
The reports regarding the deployment of longer-ranged Chinese PL-15 missiles on an upgraded JF-17 jet have caused anxiety in the Indian Air Force. Global Times earlier reported that the upgraded JF-17 will host an infrared search and track system along with a cross-section radar that lessens the pseudo-stealthy airframe. The PL-15’s beyond visual range missile has reportedly also caused serious worry in the Pentagon.
The PL-15’s striking range in actual aerial engagements is definitely lower than the maximum range 300 km but is nevertheless much greater than its US’ AIM-120 AMRAAM estimated to be approximately 180 km.
US general Herbert Carlisle voiced serious concerns in 2015 when the development of the PL-15 entered the public domain: “Look at our adversaries and what they’re developing, things like the PL-15 and the range of that weapon.” General Carlisle raised the same issue in an interview with FlightGlobal: “The PL-15 and the range of that missile, we’ve got to be able to out-stick that missile.”
The PL-15 missile, which is a radar-guided weapon, is advertised as having a greater range than both US-built AMRAAM and the Russian R-77, which is in service with the Indian Air Force.
With a length of over 4metres, the PL-15 is much longer than the AMRAAM and has a powerful radar and rocket motor. Experts writing for EurAsian Times maintain that the fundamental role of the PL-15 is to demolish ‘high-value’ targets such as airborne early-warning aircraft (AWACS) and aerial refuelling aircraft, which could handicap any opponent including the US.
The PL-15 uses a conventional rocket motor, unlike the Meteor missile which will be used by the Rafale fighter jets for the IAF. The Meteor has a stated range of “well in excess of 150km” according to its manufacturers but is also smaller in length than the PL-15.
Therefore, experts talking to the EurAsian Times conclude that the PL-15 has greater range than the Meteor on account of its higher fuel capacity and poses a serious threat to the French origin jets which will be operated by the Indian Air Force
JF-17 vs Rafale: Why Pakistani JF-17 Thunder Poses A Serious Threat To Indian Rafale Fighter Jets?
Due to SPECTRA, JF17 will not detect Rafale at such distance, Rafale will see first and shot first.
Nothing new under the sun.
IAF pilots have the same about JF17, F16, J10, J20....
those are max range, in a quite ballistical trajectory. Absolutely useless except, maybe, against a boomer, in a zero G trajectory...
Only NEZ (No Escape Zone) is a true and potent data. And in the AMRAAM C5 case it's in the 20 km. Maybe marginaly more for AMRAAM D.
Just see what happend to the Pakistani AMRAAM fired last year against SU30 at 60km....
Some said 300km max range.... but with nearly zero agility at the end, so useless.
The NEZ of Meteor is 60km, officialy. That means more in reality.
15 to 20 km ?
AMRAAM C5/C7 : 20 km?
nothing official. And few know exactly how it is mesured. How agile is the target (9G? 5G? 12G?). How is the altitude and speed of the fighter and of the target. etc....
