Rafale DH/EH of Indian Air Force : News and Discussions
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It is proposed at export, I don't know if you take it or not in the India Specific Extension (ISE)
Rather is it not true that India did not go for the 2 way data link citing it as unnecessary?
two way data link is a function of the missile. Meteror has it but rafale does not have it.
For the way Rafale Missile the Meteor is compatible with the MICA datalink, so France was satisfied with this solution and didn't add an equipment to have two way data link. But the equipment exist and is very easy to integrate so it is proposed for export, but as far as I know, no export partner decided to take this option (Egypt, Qatar, India) because the use will be only for the 10 last second when the seeker is on and information this late will not be very useful.
I know but it will come in very handy when you are firing multiple shots.
While the above-mentioned reasons are precisely why the Indian Air Force (IAF) has ordered the MBDA-developed Meteor BVRAAMs for its 36 Rafale M-MRCAs, the operational requirement for such ramjet-powered BVRAAMs is for 2,500 units. And there’s another catch: the Meteor BVRAAM should be compatible with the mission avionics of all types of MRCAs that are in service with the IAF. This, in turn, represents a systems integration challenge, but there is a solution, nevertheless. This involves, on one hand the installation of indigenous mission computer, stores management system and pylon interface avionics (all using the MIL-STD-1760 digital databus) on MRCAs like the Tejas Mk.1, Tejas Mk.1A, Super Su-30MKI and MiG-29UPG, while on the other the Meteor’s MBDA-developed Ku-band active seeker and a module of its rear-mounted two-way data-link can be replaced by corresponding India-supplied avionics and sensors that are used by the indigenously-developed Astra-1 BVRAAM. This way, the MMRs of Russia- and Israel-origin can seamlessly be integrated with the Meteor BVRAAM, since India will first have the avionics and sensors integrated with the Israel-origin and Russia-origin MMRs at the Israel-based and Russia-based avionics integration test-rigs and then supply them to MBDA for installation inside the Meteor airframes
Is this possible, then we can have meteors with SU Mki
Is this possible, then we can have meteors with SU Mki
After all these changes why must we pay such huge price for a meteror when all that we will get is just the airframe of the missile with propellent.
Yes, it is possible. But the idea behind using Meteor on MKIs is that it's ready to be integrated, while any attempt to introduce Indian avionics into the Meteor will make the project late, hence pointless. Instead the SFDR will take to the skies well before an Indianised Meteor makes its first flight. IAF wants them by 2021-22, not in 2030 and beyond. Quick integration is the reason the I-Derby ER was chosen over Meteor.
Look at the UK-Japan program to upgrade the Meteor with Japanese avionics. They started in 2017, first flight is expected only after 2023 and it will enter serivice only in the late 2020s. So you can imagine how long an MKIzed Meteor will take.
Also, you have to consider the cost. The integration of Indian avionics on Meteor alone will cost more than the cost of a project like SFDR, and the unit cost will also be very high since we do not want 2500 Meteors, but only a much smaller number until our own missiles start coming in.
It's interesting to note that when we first bought the MKI and Mig-21 Bison in complementary roles, we equipped them both with the R-77. And now, 20 years later, the MKI and LCA Mk1/A will get the I-Derby ER. So there's little to no chance of Meteor making it on the MKI and LCA as of now.
On MKI it should take 2 years, but I don't think it's started yet though, not sure about that. Derby integration on LCA is complete, so I-Derby ER integration shouldn't take a long time, especially since the radar for Mk1A is Israeli as well.
It should become operationally available only after 2022.
I think with the success of Astra, we will not have I derby on any fleet. Astra Mk-2 will take lesser time for development than integrating I-Derby.
Astra-MK2 with duel pulse motor will be tested this year(as per one FB page update)
Astra Mk2 will have just a change of propulsion and it will retain most of the electronics from Mk1 which has been extensively tested and proven. Integrating it with IAF fleet will not be any issue as long as Mk1 is integrated with the fleet.
Is that the reason for only 50 Mk1s for user trails by IAF and they are waiting for Mk2 with extended range?
The first 50 are for mostly for training and trials. The real one will be the Mk2. Please remember that dual pulse motor and the systems for Mk2 have already been proven on Barak-8 missile and it is an Indian design. Infect we are far ahead of israelis in rocket science.
I-Derby ER will be bought in sufficient numbers even though Astra Mk1 was successful.
I-Derby ER has an AESA seeker and a dual pulse motor, so you can't compare Astra Mk1 with it. Astra Mk2 will be its equivalent, but it will take some time for it to become operational. At least 2025. 3 years to test it and 2 years to deliver the production version.
The Chinese have already been operating dual pulse motor based missiles with AESA seekers since 2016-17. We can't waste time waiting for indigenous equivalents to come up when a foreign equivalent is already available. And it's possible for such missiles to become operational on a squadron of JF-17s by the end of 2021. So even with Derby ER, we are already late.
Astra Mk2 has to be tested with the new AESA seeker as well.
Ku band seeker is AESA and 99% fighters in the world do not have ESM to detect a KU band transmitter nor do they have jammers for this band. The jammers are equipped to jam frequencies in 1Ghz to 18Ghz. Ku band is way beyond that. Plus with a very short wavelength, KU band seelers have far superior target discrimination and near optical quality radar image. These guys in Hyderabad are doing a job which is known to very few in the world.
Even Rafale does not have ESM to detect KU band. Ask @Picdelamirand-oil? F4 will have it.