The last complete fighter engine studied by RR is the Spey..... Good luck !
You really are mad.
F4 is financed and lauched....
Rafale DH/EH of Indian Air Force : News and Discussions
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F4 is financed and lauched....
any US planes for frontline roles will be suicidal for India. A Dem in white house will not hesitate to sanction India at the smallest pretext. How much spares and inventory can we hoard. IAF is very happy with the Rafale. SH failed to make the technical cut in MMRCA. why will it make the cut in MMRCA 2?
SH may be a good option for IN over the Rafale M for reasons stated here, but for IAF, it seems like a bad bet. Plus Modi has staked a lot of political capital on Rafale. He may get DA to reduce price, or get them to bake in the price under some head, but more Rafales are surely coming. IAF will make sure of that.
Calling CAG report hitjob is such a fanboy move!.
The report is probably referring to #323
(Standing Committee report 2017)
The tender was out in 2015 itself. The testing facility setup was irrespective of any foreign involvement. The only thing new here is the statement from HAL Chairman R Madhavan.
After all the trashing on HAL by the Dassault boys, look who came to rescue
I would also blame ourselves. We have selected a fighter. Instead we start trying to satiate a man-child who has the brain capacity of a 2 year old gold fish. Get the rest of the opposition on board. Something, which I squarely blame this government. Reach out to the other prominent members, bring them on board detailing the necessity of the platform.
Then proceed to work out a total requirement plan in a phased manner. Work with the selected partner to invest the monies. NOBODY is going to give you engine tech free. All our crying of, how they cheated is rubbish. We were going to buy 120+ planes. Make the plan. Tell the partner of requirement over 15 years. Make in India those planes. Give the partner IP in that engine project. Invest in our internal R&D.
Instead, now we are talking about another plane, from a country which imposes sanctions on the biggest member of NATO for buying Russian equipment. If we do not see this in itself as a warning, we are bunch of loonies.
Just to rant a little more, which engine are asking for from RR? Is it the F136? Or is it the current generation F414? F136 is out, because it will require approval from GE and from the US. Best of luck getting that. The Tempest engine? Thats like a future Kaveri. Its there, but not there.
Instead of working with a selected vendor, we are now going to open a new can of worms, due to some idiots sitting in Delhi.
Ranting over. over and out.
Then proceed to work out a total requirement plan in a phased manner. Work with the selected partner to invest the monies. NOBODY is going to give you engine tech free. All our crying of, how they cheated is rubbish. We were going to buy 120+ planes. Make the plan. Tell the partner of requirement over 15 years. Make in India those planes. Give the partner IP in that engine project. Invest in our internal R&D.
Instead, now we are talking about another plane, from a country which imposes sanctions on the biggest member of NATO for buying Russian equipment. If we do not see this in itself as a warning, we are bunch of loonies.
Just to rant a little more, which engine are asking for from RR? Is it the F136? Or is it the current generation F414? F136 is out, because it will require approval from GE and from the US. Best of luck getting that. The Tempest engine? Thats like a future Kaveri. Its there, but not there.
Instead of working with a selected vendor, we are now going to open a new can of worms, due to some idiots sitting in Delhi.
Ranting over. over and out.
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I read today that 2022 is the deadline, so I am not sure if any agreement terms were violated. Please correct me if wrong.Calling CAG report hitjob is such a fanboy move!.
The report is probably referring to #323
View attachment 17904
(Standing Committee report 2017)
The tender was out in 2015 itself. The testing facility setup was irrespective of any foreign involvement. The only thing new here is the statement from HAL Chairman R Madhavan.
After all the trashing on HAL by the Dassault boys, look who came to rescue
Rafale fighter jets: Rafale offsets: New fighter jet engine complex coming up, French assistance likely - The Economic Times
The new engine complex is being set up as a national mission to develop a 110 kilo newton powered engine for the future class of advanced medium combat aircraft (AMCA) and could produce the engine within seven years of starting work.
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This delusion is why we can't fix our problems. Why would they sanction spares when we are fighting there biggest adversary. America is not Germany. Their political leadership might be corrupt hacks who want to screw over their people but they are not people devoid of understanding of realpolitik and geopolitics. We won't have a problem of spares. Pakistan never had it even though they were screwing them for the last 50 years. It's only after Trump that they got screwed. And we have already signed most of alliance agreements with us. So as an ally they won't screw with our fleet. There MIC also will block it. India is the biggest arms market you think that they will try to screw with their biggest potential arms market. There is a reason why they are so desperate to shift there production lines of there aircrafts. Any other country would happily sign the deal for production lines. It's only we in our delusion of Nehruvian NAM that we can't understand who our friends are.
Don't believe anything till it comes from official sources. This piece seems to have been abetted by the GoI to counter the CAGs report.Rafale fighter jets: Rafale offsets: New fighter jet engine complex coming up, French assistance likely - The Economic Times
The new engine complex is being set up as a national mission to develop a 110 kilo newton powered engine for the future class of advanced medium combat aircraft (AMCA) and could produce the engine within seven years of starting work.m.economictimes.com
I doubt the ambit of SAFRAN extended to ToT, know how, know why, the works, etc of the M88 core. From what can be gleaned from news in the public domain the agreement appears to have been towards helping GTRE identify flaws with the Kaveri engine & the Kabini core & to rectify it , get it tested & certified as far as possible.
It seems the core has some fundamental flaws & needs to be rebuilt from scratch. Hence SAFRANs offer for the M88 core & the corresponding negotiations of proportion of investment,scope of off sets, IP, royalties, etc which seems to have reached a dead end .
I, personally, don't think it's an insurmountable obstacle but requires intervention & monitoring at the highest level apart from speeding things up which as things stand is the bane of any project in India.
This project with SAFRAN, however, would be for the MLU of the Mk1 / 1a & to power the MWF, possibly the TEDBF too(?)
The RR project would power the definiteve AMCA version - the Mk2 & possibly the TEDBF.
In any event, we can expect news on both these fronts in a few months - hopefully before the end of FY-20-21. Without resolving the offsets package with the DA led consortium especially the one concerning SAFRAN, GoI will not order the next batch of Rafales. Both money & increasingly time is of essence here.
Nothing is believable till fact comes in open. My initial query is same, why was this storm created when deadline is 2022 (I read that on twitter from a retired serviceman.).
It's the CAG's job to release it's reports on the progress achieved or the lack thereof. It's the job of the press to speculate & hint darkly. It's the opposition's job to raise Cain. That's how things work out here.
i hope you are aware that CISMOA and LEMOA are both subject to any domestic US law- meaning their senate can pass a law overruling these agreements.
US is wooing India only because it knows that India is the only country that will fight China militarily other than the US, but for different reasons. as regards production lines, the only offer of production line is that of the F16I (ingeniously named F21!!), which will be soon out dated and does not meet IAF requirements anyways.
There is nothing on record that the US will set up an entire production line for the F18 in India. Anyways this is moot because IAF has rejected F18 on technical parameters. The Rafale proved superior on all counts. The F18 failed the Leh test if you recollect. So pray tell me how will IAF field that as its frontline fighter?
That's why I don't want the f18 in the IAF. The only U.S plane I want is the f15EX because it is the only plane that can outperform the rafale in terms of raw performance. There is nothing on record but there is enough marketing and interviews of the Companies of transferring production of f16 and f18 to India. So if they are promising this so openly it means that they will honour the agreement. Business don't become successful on screwing over people.
We bought s400 have any of the CAATSA sanctions been imposed on India?? CISMOA and LEMOA are for improving interoperability yes it gives U.S some leverage over our American tech but you get full access to it. The senate wouldn't be so insane to screw it's potentially the biggest geostrategic partner to counter its primary adversary like that. No democrat would do that and the deep state won't allow it. Whackjobs like AOC and Bernie Sanders are typical leftist. In the words of Yuri bezemov they are "useful idiots". So the core democrats won't even try to make them relevant. Joe Biden and the rest are career politicians they do promises and don't perform so we might go back to pre-trump era of American government working.
American foreign policy is dictated by its domestic policy, not by geopolitics. Look at how the USA have attacked their own allies repeatedly these last couple decades -- no, I'm not talking just about Trump, even if he's been more blatant about it than usual.
America's entire history is success through screwing over people. They screwed over the natives, they screwed over the Mexicans, they screwed over the African slaves, they screwed over the rest of the world. It's how they do business. And it works for them because what can you do about it? If you try to fight back they screw you over even more.
And if you paid attention to what @vstol Jockey said, the reason India hasn't been hit by CAATSA sanctions yet is because they're waiting to see which aircraft gets selected for MMRCA2. If it's not US, then the sanctions will come.
When Arjuna offered service from lord krishna, 100 soldiers to fight Duryodhana or krishna as charioteer. We all know what arjuna did and what was the outcome. Hope we will choose wisely by going an american system ( i prefer F15EX).
America never attacked any of the NATO members, america never dropped on Japan after it bacame its ally, America never attacked Australia, Amarica never attacked soko.
But yeas, they destroyed saddam. The reason is the iraq's Kuwait invasion. They destroyed Taliban, i dont think any explanation is required on Taliban case. Yeas they stabbed pakistan, reason is pakistan ditch the repeated request from america to stop pakistani support on terrorism.
And FYI america will never backstab india as long as we were not attacking USA, as long as GOI respects Democracy, as longs as we respect the minorities.
I didn't mean military attacks.
But economic warfare, using intelligence services for industrial espionage, meddling in elections, etc. they do that against allies as much if not more than against other countries.
You think that russians are not doing that on india ? Do you think that France is not doing such against India?
Right now we are not having much US weapons, do you seriously believe that americans are not doing such things in india right now? All most all nations are doing similar activities on other countries, Even India is doing such thing on others how the last maldives & srilankan election results favours india , you didn't need to use some one else's weapons to get prey for that.
And lastly, go and do some googling on "French espionage " cases of cochin offshore. EX kerala MP KV Thomas was alleged to be involved in that case. That case wad not investigated properly since the french person involved got bail from court and he went back to france ( he convinced the court that he will come back). He never shown his face after that. Its a very old incident, probably @vstol Jockey will be knowing the incident.
This news article is nothing but an attempt to smoother down the criticism of present govt. I had written about it when I stated that Safran/DA have choked themselves and also tied the hands of present govt to order more Rafales due to their lust for more money and orders. This news is propaganda to deflect public opinion. We have no such agreement with French. Its bullshit.
This is undoubtedly the most naïve statement I have read on this forum. You most certainly know better than this - the difference between verbal platitudes vs. practice /execution of realpolitik..
Democracy/Human Rights are but tools to browbeat & corner their rivals & adversaries. Think about US relations with Saudi & other Gulf states - not exactly the icons or beacons of minority-rights, now are they ?
Hypocrisy is the name of the game.
No offence, but you ought to read up a bit on geopolitics. Especially, try reading about the very basics of hedging - how US (State Deptt.) Foreign policy hedges China against Russia, India against China, Pakistan against India, Afghanistan against Pakistan & so goes this endless loop.
In a nutshell: We are a revisionist state w.r.t to US & China. Whereas US is a status-quo-ist entity against us. We will continue to partner with them wherever our interests converge (there's frankly quite a lot), while treading independently where they don't.
In Uncle Sam's worldview, your are either their ally/vassal meant to serve their interests at the cost of your national interest, or else a rival/adversary who will be eventually put in their place or blown to smithereens (if you are Libya/Iraq).
I am not saying at all that CAG shouldn't release the reports whether final or partial investigation. What I am saying about the aftermath, what happened after report was interpreted while not mentioning the deadline if the deadline mentioned was correct. Will it not be against agreement?
The CAG report did mention the deadline. It's the press which which twisted their reports on the CAG document.