Okay, what was the deadline in CAG report for tech transfer or whatever agreed terms were there as such?
Rafale DH/EH of Indian Air Force : News and Discussions
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The IGA / Gtg between the governments of France & India mention 2022-23 as the deadline. The CAG report ought to reflect these facts ( haven't gone thru the full report).
If we are going with RR, what will be the thrust of new engine? And is it derived from tgeir tempest program?
If that is true, then in my opinion there is no violation of agreed terms at least.
The opposite. Rafale can supercruise, turn faster, pull more Gs and climb better.
But it's an Indo-Brit design, not just an Indian design. And Brit will provide all the relevant technologies. This is gonna be an expensive program.
F15 can do deep penetration in enemy airspace with considerable pay load, its have the freedom of a hell lot of american weaponry. French cannot match americans when comes to the choice of weapons that can be launched from an aircraft, add to that french weapons are ridiculously costly.
The problem is we are not an economic challenger to the U.S right now, so we have breathing space for atleast 20 years when we actually become a challenger. Till then America will respect its side of the alliance. And it's GoI's responsibility to respect American overtures. We do not win without the Americans. But we will have to be ready once we become a threatening power to the Americans.
The Soviet union has done all that with India. And everybody still loves the Russians even after screwing us in the process and the Americans are way less diabolical than the Russians..
It can't fly higher, faster and has a the bigger radar of the f15ex. Those things give us a huge advantage. Our mig 21 could shoot down the f16 because of its faster speed. I don't consider f1&5EX a dog fighter. The mki in its present form will still beat it. But we need a plane that has bvr superiority and can act as bomb truck. The rafale will still be our silver bullet..
American foreign policy has never cared for domestic opinion. It was always corporate led. If the corporations were happy they could do any thing they want. Every action they have done post WW2 is for corporate interest. Fighting commies was important so that they could increase the size of their economic bloc. The domestic policy of screwing over their own people doesn't come close. The whole middle East situation went out of control because of Pakistan. Iraq,Iran do not have as much influence as the media has hyped them. And Pakistan got screwed later. Every country that tries to play funny with the Americans has been punished except the Chinese because they always treated the Americans as capitalist pigs.
And U.S won't sanction us but we have to play ball with them. Saudi Arabia is the last country close the American ideals but is still the best ally of the Americans. So no domestic policy has never mattered when it comes to geopolitics for the Americans....
I don't think we get sanctioned either way. It would be better if we buy them but we don't get sanctioned. The fear of getting sanctioned is what could make us do stupid deals though..
Any multirole/strike fighter with enough range is a deep penetration fighter. But the F-15 is not a SEAD/DEAD capable aircraft like the Rafale.
Suppression of Enemy Air Defenses - Wikipedia
All you can claim is the F-15EX is better than the Jaguar or MKI in the strike role. But none of these aircraft are meant to kick down the door like the Rafale, F-22, F-35 etc. After SEAD/DEAD comes deep penetration, which is something even Rafale can do, and also much better than the F-15EX can even in this role.
The Air Force Wants to Buy More F-15X Jets, and It’s a Huge Mistake
Last Friday, the Air Force announced plans to buy Boeing’s F-15X, based on the jet’s capabilities and comparatively low costs when stacked against the F-35A. Is this a wise investment? Let’s take a look. The Air Force needs to acquire at least 72 fighters a year just to offset jets that are...
www.heritage.org
As envisioned, the F-15X will include all those improvements, while carrying a veritable arsenal of air-to-ground and air-to-air munitions including up to 22 air-to-air missiles. With both conformal and external drop tanks, the jet has a range of 600 miles, equaling that of an F-35A.
The Rafale's combat range with external drop tanks is much, much more than the F-15X's 600 miles.
French weapons are better. More capable.
Both Meteor and MICA IR are better than Aim-120D and Aim-9X. France has powered PGMs while the US only has glide PGMs. SCALP has a proven capability to pentrate air defences. And so on. Anyway, we plan to use mainly Indian weapons in the future, we have equivalents planned for pretty much every category of bombs and missiles that the F-15E and Rafale can use. Including supersonic and hypersonic, which are either not available or won't be exported. The US doesn't even have the equivalent of the Indian Garuthmaa, whereas the French are now bringing in the powered version of the Hammer in the same weight class. Europeans have far better weapons overall than the US.
The only good American weapon I can think of is the LRASM, but we have no need for it since we have our own plans.
The Rafale can fly higher, faster and has a more capable radar, especially with the upcoming 360 degree GaN radar.
You are confusing the F-15EX with the old F-15C. The new F-15EX comes with CFT and external tanks which makes it a subsonic fighter for pretty much all missions. The only way it can fly supersonic is if it gives up all its external fuel and reduce its range to the same level as an LCA.
I don't know why people are giving aircraft capabilities they do not possess. The F-15C and F-15EX are two entirely different fighter jets of two entirely different eras.
Guys @Lolwa & @Hydra
Why don't you create a separate thread to advocate F-15. Don't get me wrong. Your arguing in favor of it is impressive. Practically every thread you go to, the F-15 just follows you. Ppl will say you're in love.Just like me in my teens in love with Aishwarya Rai. But as a friend pointed out - you're not AB.
Added bonus - you get some members here to keep you company in your admirable quest who instead of pointing out you're not AB , like my friend did consisely & cruelly, will keep reasoning with you giving you hope - enough to fill pages & before you realise it it's a year gone by & a 100 pages filled in & still as much sign of the F-15 joining the IAF as of me getting Aishwarya.
Why don't you create a separate thread to advocate F-15. Don't get me wrong. Your arguing in favor of it is impressive. Practically every thread you go to, the F-15 just follows you. Ppl will say you're in love.Just like me in my teens in love with Aishwarya Rai. But as a friend pointed out - you're not AB.
Added bonus - you get some members here to keep you company in your admirable quest who instead of pointing out you're not AB , like my friend did consisely & cruelly, will keep reasoning with you giving you hope - enough to fill pages & before you realise it it's a year gone by & a 100 pages filled in & still as much sign of the F-15 joining the IAF as of me getting Aishwarya.
I was waiting for this.
Surjee every other thread is filled with rafale peddlers. So what's bad in a little diversity of peddling a similarly different product we know we can't afford. Plus it makes for good rants. Like the one you did above..
Upcoming is still in the future 2022-2023. So why not buy an aircraft that is still capable. Rafale f4 ain't coming tomorrow but China can invade any other day. What will then you guys say ?? That if we had bought the rafale earlier this problem would have never come. The problem won't go away with 36 rafale's. We are only at par with them. This delusion peddled by French posters that the 36 rafale's will basically curbstomp the Chinese and Pakistanis at the same time is a joke.
I know what the f15ex is because I am the biggest peddler here. That's why it fits the replacement for our jaguars and mig 27/23. Rafale is the true replacement for our mirages and mig 29's. We can't have a single aircraft in our airforce. We have to pay for atleast 4 different platforms to modernise our air force in all aspects..
Whatever decision we take today, it will take 4-5 years to accomplish, so the Rafale F4.2 will be ready long before that. The MRFA process itself will take 7 years to finish at the current pace before the IAF starts flying whatever comes out of it. We are talking about post 2027 with MRFA, not 2022-23.
It's no delusion and it's not the French saying it...
‘Rafales will provide India major advantage in Tibet in case of aerial combat’: Ex-IAFchief Dhanoa
Former IAF chief BS Dhanoa said the Rafale, with its fantastic electronic warfare suite and maneuverability, will be able use mountainous terrain in Tibet to its advantage and blind the enemy before India’s strike aircraft penetrate hostile airspace to carry out their missions.
People don't realise that none of our current aircraft can go anywhere inside China until the Rafales have sanitised that area. And all of our other aircraft have to operate within that area unless they want to die. The Chinese air defences are no joke, even the US is taking them seriously.
Agree with you but for the f4.2 it will take another 4 years after it is ordered so a total of 6-8 years before we see f4.2 by that time the Chinese will have 100 of j20C's with much more stealth. It doesn't get more difficult...Whatever decision we take today, it will take 4-5 years to accomplish, so the Rafale F4.2 will be ready long before that. The MRFA process itself will take 7 years to finish at the current pace before the IAF starts flying whatever comes out of it. We are talking about post 2027 with MRFA, not 2022-23.
It's no delusion and it's not the French saying it...
‘Rafales will provide India major advantage in Tibet in case of aerial combat’: Ex-IAFchief Dhanoa
Former IAF chief BS Dhanoa said the Rafale, with its fantastic electronic warfare suite and maneuverability, will be able use mountainous terrain in Tibet to its advantage and blind the enemy before India’s strike aircraft penetrate hostile airspace to carry out their missions.www.hindustantimes.com
People don't realise that none of our current aircraft can go anywhere inside China until the Rafales have sanitised that area. And all of our other aircraft have to operate within that area unless they want to die. The Chinese air defences are no joke, even the US is taking them seriously.
With the F4.2, there's two ways to go about it. One would be to buy 114 of them through MRFA and they will become available only after 2027. The other would be to go for them as the next batch of 36. Place an order in 2021 and receive F4.2s from 2024, which is the quickest method.
The jury's still out on how capable the J-20C will really be. The F4.2's electronics will most likely be superior to anything the Chinese will conjure up within that time, we know the French are obviously ahead there. Whether performance and Rafale's active cancellation capabilities will keep up, we will have to wait and see.
But in either case, Rafale's going to have to be the future for us. None of the other MRFA contenders, including the F-15 are on par with what's coming. The F-15EX that's still 3 years away from series production isn't even better than the Rafale F3R, whereas the world's moving on to a higher grade of capability in the post 2025 world with the Rafale F4.2, J-20C, Su-57 Mk2, F-22 MLU, PCA, NGAD etc. The F-15, SH, MKI, Su-35 etc have no place in such a world except as second-rung fighter jets that can operate only in uncontested airspace.