S-400 'Triumf' News & Discussion

SIGINT is a very broad based term. It requires a lot of ground work. You need to sift through all the data and find the S-400 within it, which can take days, months or even years. It's a very slow process and it never ends.

Otoh, what you really need is the ability to actually see the threat with your own eyes yourself. And this can also be delegated to radar and IR sensors, but these are all range restricted. The big problem is whether this range outranges the S-400 or not.

Even after all that, you still need to do a lot of preparatory work before you commit to an attack, by which time the S-400 would have moved.
something like this was needed , and we now have similar systems.
VERA passive sensor - Wikipedia
 
The US has MALD and MALD-J and when you combine that with NGJ and stealth aircraft flying in the mix, it's going to be a difficult day for SAMs. Then you have the Kratos Valkyrie and Mako and the MASSM and Spear missiles in the future. In the meantime, lots of JASSM-ER and AARGM, plus an AARGM-ER variant soon. China very quickly comes up with copies as you know.

So why did China bought this system considering its main foe US has counter to it?
 
why not ? They are trained to stay weeks in a foreign area. And the beginning of their "trip" may be in tourists clothes...

It will be very difficult to spot S-400 batteries since they will mostly be placed in areas which you can't just walk into.

HUMINT does play a part, but it's not always possible. By the time the intelligence is actionable, the battery would have moved.
 
But why to have an option which can easily be neutralized?

You have in your own world has proven how ineffective s400 is against US systems and its future copies.
They can found out how to beat India's one.

The problem here, is that people will say that x stealth jet has never been tested. Well neither has the S-300/400/500. Never ever. It's less tested in combat than the F-117, in fact it's completely untested in combat.
 
They can found out how to beat India's one.

The problem here, is that people will say that x stealth jet has never been tested. Well neither has the S-300/400/500. Never ever. It's less tested in combat than the F-117, in fact it's completely untested in combat.

oh it will be tested alright. The queen's neo imperialist ambitions are becoming clear. we have clear indications that the woman has ordered Theresa May and Boris Johnson to 'start recovering the lost colonies'. If things keep going like this then we will test the system against the Royal Air Force soon.
 
oh it will be tested alright. The queen's neo imperialist ambitions are becoming clear. we have clear indications that the woman has ordered Theresa May and Boris Johnson to 'start recovering the lost colonies'. If things keep going like this then we will test the system against the Royal Air Force soon.
Oh damn, he's on to us.
 
They can found out how to beat India's one.

The problem here, is that people will say that x stealth jet has never been tested. Well neither has the S-300/400/500. Never ever. It's less tested in combat than the F-117, in fact it's completely untested in combat.

I am lost.

You said India's system can be made ineffective by China by copying US system.

I said by this logic, US can make China's same system ineffective by drone swarms.

Now the question for you is - If copy of US system can make Indian S400 ineffective, why did China procure the system which is already ineffective against US drone swarm systems?
 
I am lost.

You said India's system can be made ineffective by China by copying US system.

I said by this logic, US can make China's same system ineffective by drone swarms.

Now the question for you is - If copy of US system can make Indian S400 ineffective, why did China procure the system which is already ineffective against US drone swarm systems?
It doesn't have any other options. The S-300/400/500 has never been combat tested and its forerunner, the S-200, was diabolically poor. There's a lot of faith invested in an untested system. And yes, drone swarms will overcome them, in fact stealth jets will. SAMs have never proven as effective as AAMs at shooting down combat jets historically and there's no reason to suspect that has changed.
 
It doesn't have any other options. The S-300/400/500 has never been combat tested and its forerunner, the S-200, was diabolically poor. There's a lot of faith invested in an untested system. And yes, drone swarms will overcome them, in fact stealth jets will. SAMs have never proven as effective as AAMs at shooting down combat jets historically and there's no reason to suspect that has changed.

So you put in billion of dollars in a system which is ineffective in theory itself?
 
In fairness, that plane was shot down because the USAF got cocky, and started carrying out more and more missions on the same old, predictable flight paths, disregarding safe practices and going against better judgment.

But those "obselete" S-125s should be unable to lock down on a "stealth" fighter like F 117, so predictable flight paths doesn't matters when the aircraft is supposed to be invisible to missiles/radars.
 
It doesn't have any other options. The S-300/400/500 has never been combat tested and its forerunner, the S-200, was diabolically poor. There's a lot of faith invested in an untested system. And yes, drone swarms will overcome them, in fact stealth jets will. SAMs have never proven as effective as AAMs at shooting down combat jets historically and there's no reason to suspect that has changed.

The Syrians shot down an Israeli F-16 with the S-200.
 
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