Another picture of the Nilgiri :
Shivalik-class & Nilgiri-class (Project 17 A/B) Frigates : Discussions
- Thread starter Ashwin
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INS Talwar in False Bay, Cape Town, South Africa during Exercise IBSAMAR VIII with South Africa and Brazil:
INS Tushil with a Ka-28 on the heli pad at JSC Yantar Shipyard. Pics from Sep 27:
INS Tamala hiding behind another vessel:
INS Tamala hiding behind another vessel:
This is a thoroughly outdated design by modern standards.
With all the delays in construction, they make even less sense today if you ask me.
Imo the IN should have towed the unfinished hulls to MDL or another local yard years ago for outfitting when the Ukr war broke out.
The Batch 1 and 2 Talwars are slated to get Elta-2258+MRSAM during MLU anyway.
These new vessels could have been commissioned with those systems fitted.
Cost and delivery speed were in mind when we signed for this. Godavri frigates were out and P17A was some time away.
No need to buy anymore from outside..... P 17A frigate & P 15 design are aesthetic as hell & has become a jealousy point for many warship aesthetic enthusiast foreigners....... Little bit change & a good amount of refinement is needed & we probably have the most bad a** looking warship design anywhere on the planet.
It may be relatively cheaper to a P-17A but no comparison is terms of capability. Though there are some upgrades over previous batches like the Oto 76mm gun, Scatter SSR, etc, the AD suite is 80s vintage.
Not relatively cheap but subjectively cheap even for licensed produced version in Goa. Its only $550 million while P17A/B costs double of that.
It was a good purchase 6 years ago for the role of a lower tier frigate. No one could anticipate the Ukraine wars and delays, so there is no point dwelling on the decision.
The four Talwar are coming at 21k crore, which is not cheap or half of what P17A costs. GSL Talwar includes the cost to upgrade the shipyard, but so does P17A (for GRSE), it was never a good decision to buy additional frigates with an arm launcher and a poor radar.
Russians were ready to sell the two grigorovich at no profit only to scam us with GSL Talwar.
India inks $950 million deal for Russian frigates
Given that the US has implemented sanctions on weapons purchases from Moscow, India could make payments for the ships using the rupee-rouble route.
India, Russia to build stealth frigates
Goa Shipyard Ltd. signs ₹500 mn tech transfer deal with Rosoboronexport.
How did you get to this number ?
950M for two grigorovich frigates built in Russia (the first link you provided).India inks $950 million deal for Russian frigates
Given that the US has implemented sanctions on weapons purchases from Moscow, India could make payments for the ships using the rupee-rouble route.economictimes.indiatimes.com
India, Russia to build stealth frigates
Goa Shipyard Ltd. signs ₹500 mn tech transfer deal with Rosoboronexport.www.thehindu.com
How did you get to this number ?
$950M ≈ ₹6,840 crore (Oct 2018, USD = 72 INR)
₹14,100 crore for two Talwar being built at GSL, the Russians have charged prime money for ToT and license manufacturing of crap. Cost of upgrading infra is <1000cr. The Russians have a history of scamming us, royalties and licensing fee is one of the reasons why Su-30 MKI costs more than Su-30 SM.
More than 180 contracts valued over Rs 1,96,000 crore signed with Indian Defence Industry since 2014
The Ministry of Defence has signed more than 180 contracts valued at over Rs 1,96,000 crore with the
pib.gov.in
14.1 + 6.84 is approximately 21
950M for two grigorovich frigates built in Russia (the first link you provided).
$950M ≈ ₹6,840 crore (Oct 2018, USD = 72 INR)
₹14,100 crore for two Talwar being built at GSL, the Russians have charged prime money for ToT and license manufacturing of crap. Cost of upgrading infra is <1000cr. The Russians have a history of scamming us, royalties and licensing fee is one of the reasons why Su-30 MKI costs more than Su-30 SM.
View attachment 37717
More than 180 contracts valued over Rs 1,96,000 crore signed with Indian Defence Industry since 2014
The Ministry of Defence has signed more than 180 contracts valued at over Rs 1,96,000 crore with the
14.1 + 6.84 is approximately 21
The IN needs the ships, and it's a cheap price to get a third frigate-ready shipyard. When MDL and GRSE transition to building large destroyers like P-18, we will need 2 more frigate-ready shipyards for P-17 and P-15 class ships.
Anyway the IN needs the ships because it's cheaper than sending a third P-17A alongside 2 P-17As. An advanced taskforce can consist of 2 P-17As, 1 Talwar and a supply ship. Not just for operational efficiency at sea, but it helps diversify suppliers and maintenance facilities.
Different deals, same playbook. Gorshkov redux.
Let's not forget GSL has built Saryu class OPVs, frigate class ships at 2500t.
Zorya remains in Russian cross hairs. If they go up in smoke, GSL will be stranded.
The Russians have developed a local GT for their own use which they will charge us an arm and a leg for.
This contract is between the MoD and GSL, not for the value of the ship. A substantial part of this will involve upgrading the shipyard infrastructure alone. We did the same with GRSL around 2010-15. Project 17A was intentionally delayed for them to upgrade the yards. It's a one-time investment to build a capable shipyard. Unless you have a breakdown of the cost, you can't assume that the Russians cheated us and that we just let them do it. Unlike in the past, we don't have any such conclusions today to do so.950M for two grigorovich frigates built in Russia (the first link you provided).
$950M ≈ ₹6,840 crore (Oct 2018, USD = 72 INR)
₹14,100 crore for two Talwar being built at GSL, the Russians have charged prime money for ToT and license manufacturing of crap. Cost of upgrading infra is <1000cr. The Russians have a history of scamming us, royalties and licensing fee is one of the reasons why Su-30 MKI costs more than Su-30 SM.
View attachment 37717
More than 180 contracts valued over Rs 1,96,000 crore signed with Indian Defence Industry since 2014
The Ministry of Defence has signed more than 180 contracts valued at over Rs 1,96,000 crore with the
14.1 + 6.84 is approximately 21
Relevant part from Dinakar pari:
'frigate ready shipyard' is such a farce used to justify the purchase, even after Talwar it won't be able to construct ships longer than 130m. It is the experience in integrating complex systems that GSL will gain, that could have been learned from even constructing ships like NGMV/NGC that have more automated systems. GSL will not be able to build ships like P17 or P15 even after building 10 Talwars, because it doesn't have the facility for constructing ships that big. MDL and GRSE can easily balance making NGD and ships like P17B, MDL is getting a new floating dry dock and GRSE is investing in acquiring other facilities so it frees up the large drydock it already has.
A ship with an arm launcher being part of an advanced task force is only a liability, ordering 3 additional P17A would have reduced the average cost per unit.
The 'substantial part' for the upgrade is less than a thousand crore, the one-time investment won't allow it to build ships larger than 130m. The cost of the deal is enough to conclude, that it's $950M for two and then 14.1k for two, it does not cost 7k crore to upgrade a shipyard, and 7k crore is more than enough to fund the operation for all 10 Talwar for 20 years, Project-17A cost also includes the cost for maintenance and upkeep of the ships for 20 years. 'specialist assistance' is just another name for royalties, we wouldn't need this 'specialist assistance' if we didn't order this crap. GSL need not have any steel from Russia or ToT for steel from Russia when we already have DMR-249A. Paying for ToT of outdated design and equipment.