Shivalik-class & Nilgiri-class (Project 17 A/B) Frigates : Discussions
- Thread starter Ashwin
- Start date
GRSE in its Q2 FY24 concall said that it will be 7 ships, in the tune of around 70,000cr. Guess the number hasn't been decided yet. Mind that the contract for these won't be signed anytime soon, the AoN from DAC/CCS will only help in finalising the design and weapons configuration. The new projects are being sanctioned with more funds than necessary, to cater for delays and inflation.
Mazagon, Garden Reach Shipbuilders lead race for Defence Ministry's ₹70,000 crore warships order
Defence ministry's ₹70,000 crore approval for Project 17B warships boosts MDL's Kalvari class submarines, Project 15B destroyers, and GRSE's patrol vessels and exports. MDL and GRSE, constructing Nilgiri class under Project 17A, will split the order for quicker delivery. Stealth frigates feature...m.economictimes.com
Rs 70,000 cr means it's 8 hulls, approximately $1 billion per ship. Let's hope this time they can keep the 4-year timeline.
This could also mean that NGC will be deprioritized.
And NGC is not getting deprioritized, the RFP was issued in May 2024. The IN has fast-tracked its procurement to sign the contract within the next 12 months.
India to build 8 Next Generation Corvettes for its Navy – Defense Archives
The Defence Acquisition Council accorded Acceptance of Necessity (AoN) for the procurement of Next Generation Corvettes (NGC) at an estimated cost of approximat
defensearchives.de
If 70,000 crore is only for 7 ships, then it's a sign that Indian DPSU shipyards continue to remain extremely inefficient. The UK is building the Type 26 for less than $1 billion, and they are keeping to the promised timeline. Anyway, the RFP would only be issued in 2026.GRSE in its Q2 FY24 concall said that it will be 7 ships, in the tune of around 70,000cr. Guess the number hasn't been decided yet. Mind that the contract for these won't be signed anytime soon, the AoN from DAC/CCS will only help in finalising the design and weapons configuration. The new projects are being sanctioned with more funds than necessary, to cater for delays and inflation.
And NGC is not getting deprioritized, the RFP was issued in May 2024. The IN has fast-tracked its procurement to sign the contract within the next 12 months.
India to build 8 Next Generation Corvettes for its Navy – Defense Archives
The Defence Acquisition Council accorded Acceptance of Necessity (AoN) for the procurement of Next Generation Corvettes (NGC) at an estimated cost of approximat
RFP for NGC is yet to be issued according to GRSE (May 31). Any reliable source on fast tracking?.
My assumption is based on lack of budget. Next 3-4 years there are some big contracts lined up. rafale, MQ9B, P17B, P75I, follow on scorpian, follow on vikrant. This list itself is something like $28 billion !. More costly procurement will only happen if there is additional allocation.
it's more about the cost of equipment rather than the cost of man-hours.
4.2B pound is over 5.44B USD, don't know how that's <1B USD per ship. And it's already overshooting by 300M USD. Promised timeline? Laid in 2017 & operational in 28 (current projection). The timeline has shifted 3 times already.
The concall took place on 27th May, the transcript was released on 31st.
RFP is out for NGC, 6:40 onwards, plan is to sign the contract next year.
Over 30B USD, yes, not a problem.
You are right, just crossing $1 billion. P17B will be still costlier at $1.2 billion compared to a better equipped "European" ship. Thats saying something. I really hope its for 8 hulls !.
Good news if thats the case.
It is a problem. Today total CAPX allocation is $6 billion (Actual availability would be $4.5b), there are limits they can dream with this budget. They already stopped talking about follow on P8I.
My bad, that 300M overshoot is for the first ship alone, totalling over 1.3B USD. Rest assured it will keep increasing before it enters service. And idk how it's "better equipped" with that tiny rotary radar. More missiles? Thats 24 Mk41 and 48 CAMM, numbers are just for an SRSAM. P17B is coming with VL-SRSAM and an ATAS from the get go, 32 LR-SAM combined with 8 UVLM and 16 VL-SRSAM, that is a well equipped ship. 10k cr? Yeah, it's construction will start 10 years after the first type 26 was laid, inflation catches up with everybody.
Last year's modernisation budget was 52k cr, assuming a growth rate of 7%, the budget will be enough for all these projects that will go into the 30s, more than enough time to pay for them all.
It's better equipped with the MT30, 127mm main gun, and 24 Mk41 VLS cells compared to the 8 UVLM of the P17B. However, we do have better sensors with the MF-STAR. I really hope they remove the RBU-6000 and replace it with more VLS cells.
Is there any hope of getting an indigenous replacement for the MF-STAR for these ships?
With the USVs threat, I think RBU6000 is a good and cheap system.
LD provision is built into the contracts, so assuming 0.5% per week to maximum allowable LD between 5-15% of the total cost in a financial year, I think the numbers are ok. These days the shipyards now deliver early so unless major event happens, it would be on par. Then lawyers can argue over what part of the LD and cost overruns are attributable to stakeholders.
Yes, MT30 is better than LM2500, but we have 2 for their 1. What's better is that they have 2 big electric motors on type 26 for CODLOG.
Either you equip all 24 Mk41 with LACM/AShM or have few long range SAMs (are they even getting SM-2/6?). For AAW they only have 48 SRSAM. P17B' configuration isn't known yet, so no comments on 8 UVLM part.
The 6m array is unlikely to be fitted on the frigate, hopefully they are using modules to make that so it can be scaled down. Or else we'll have to stack '3-4 Arudhra' to make 1 face. The probability of these ships getting an indigenous MFR is high, supposed to be laid after 2027.
Looks like IN did carry out some AD missions in their recent deployment around the Red sea/Persian Gulf:
From the patch it looks like INS Tabar shot down 2 Shahed drones:
INS Tabar also has a ship kill patch:
This is probably from that time that INS Tabar fired on a pirate mother ship causing the mothership to sink:
INS Tabar sinks pirate mother ship
I wonder if any of the destroyers got any drone/missile kills. Although it makes little sense in wasting Barak-8 missiles on Houthi drones. Sthil is a good choice for these targets. Would be better if we had VL-SRSAMs.
From the patch it looks like INS Tabar shot down 2 Shahed drones:
INS Tabar also has a ship kill patch:
This is probably from that time that INS Tabar fired on a pirate mother ship causing the mothership to sink:
INS Tabar sinks pirate mother ship
I wonder if any of the destroyers got any drone/missile kills. Although it makes little sense in wasting Barak-8 missiles on Houthi drones. Sthil is a good choice for these targets. Would be better if we had VL-SRSAMs.
Hi all,
New to the forum!
Remember reading a few pages back that the IN is considering replacing the Shtil with the Elta 2248/B8 combo. If so, wonder why we're getting the new Batch 3 Talwar's with the same old/upgraded system? Wouldn't it have cost less to just outfit the new ships here in India?
Same with the Arsenal a190 gun. The older ships have had theirs swapped out with the OTO76 already.
New to the forum!
Remember reading a few pages back that the IN is considering replacing the Shtil with the Elta 2248/B8 combo. If so, wonder why we're getting the new Batch 3 Talwar's with the same old/upgraded system? Wouldn't it have cost less to just outfit the new ships here in India?
Same with the Arsenal a190 gun. The older ships have had theirs swapped out with the OTO76 already.
Noob question to the gurus.
Does the fact that China produces a licensed/reverse engineered copy of the Top Plate radar on many of our principal ships put them at risk in war?
Would enclosing it in a FSS radome help while we move to a local alternative? The Russians have started to do that on their latest ships like the Stereguschy and Gorshkovs.
Does the fact that China produces a licensed/reverse engineered copy of the Top Plate radar on many of our principal ships put them at risk in war?
Would enclosing it in a FSS radome help while we move to a local alternative? The Russians have started to do that on their latest ships like the Stereguschy and Gorshkovs.
She seems to have got the BEL Shikari gun FCR but the gun itself has not been changed. Curious mix.
These ships have served us well but will need a comprehensive upgrade within this decade. The Top Plate radar has blind spots as per reports. The Russian cruiser Moskva had the same system on her main mast.
These ships have served us well but will need a comprehensive upgrade within this decade. The Top Plate radar has blind spots as per reports. The Russian cruiser Moskva had the same system on her main mast.
