Small Arms & Tactical Equipment
- Thread starter Parthu
- Start date
Small-arms barrel manufacturing facility opened in Pune, to benefit private players.
The facility, which has been constructed at a cost of close to Rs 60 crore, was inaugurated by Dr Shailendra V Gade, Director General, Armament and Combat Engineering Systems of the DRDO on Monday on the premises of the ARDE in Pashan.
Written by Sushant Kulkarni
Pune | Updated: January 9, 2024, 08:41 IST.
The Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) on Monday launched a small arms barrel manufacturing facility at its Pune-based laboratory, Armament Research and Development Establishment (ARDE). The facility will mainly cater to the requirement of the private sector small arms manufacturers and will also be a key asset for the DRDO’s own research and development efforts.
The facility, which has been constructed at a cost of close to Rs 60 crore, was inaugurated by Dr Shailendra V Gade, Director General, Armament and Combat Engineering Systems of the DRDO on Monday on the premises of the ARDE in Pashan. The facility consists of three sequential machines with the third and most important being the Austrian- origin barrel forging machine procured at a cost of 3.2 million Euros. The machine has a fully automatic operation sequence and comprises a six-axis robot that performs the task.
ARDE Director Ankathi Raju said, “In small arms, the quality of its components is crucial, and the barrel is the most important part of a gun. The quality and reliability of the barrels is paramount. For example, if 2,000 rounds are to be fired without stop, consider the quality checks that are required. The ordnance factories have got these barrel production facilities. The facility at the ARDE will cater to the industries. We will implement them as turnkey projects. The industry will tell you the calibre, length and other parameters etc. We have the ballistic database with us. We will design the barrel based on industry requirements and produce it. We will also test the barrel and deliver it to the industry. This project was sanctioned three years ago, and it is now operational.”
A lot of private industries have now got licenses to manufacture small arms.
But the problem has always been the barrel. Remaining components can be manufactured but not the barrel, because it required capital intensive facilities, like the one that was inaugurated.
“The private industries of all sizes who have small arms manufacturing licences will benefit from this facility. These companies will manufacture arms for not just Indian entities but can also export them. India has nearly 30 customer entities for small arms. Apart from armed forces, there are paramilitary and central armed police forces and state police forces many of whom have specialised commando units. If we aggregate them, it is a big market.” said a senior scientist.
Small-arms barrel manufacturing facility opened in Pune, to benefit private players
The facility, which has been constructed at a cost of close to Rs 60 crore, was inaugurated by Dr Shailendra V Gade, Director General, Armament and Combat Engineering Systems of the DRDO on Monday on the premises of the ARDE in Pashan.
Written by Sushant Kulkarni
Pune | Updated: January 9, 2024, 08:41 IST.
The Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) on Monday launched a small arms barrel manufacturing facility at its Pune-based laboratory, Armament Research and Development Establishment (ARDE). The facility will mainly cater to the requirement of the private sector small arms manufacturers and will also be a key asset for the DRDO’s own research and development efforts.
The facility, which has been constructed at a cost of close to Rs 60 crore, was inaugurated by Dr Shailendra V Gade, Director General, Armament and Combat Engineering Systems of the DRDO on Monday on the premises of the ARDE in Pashan. The facility consists of three sequential machines with the third and most important being the Austrian- origin barrel forging machine procured at a cost of 3.2 million Euros. The machine has a fully automatic operation sequence and comprises a six-axis robot that performs the task.
ARDE Director Ankathi Raju said, “In small arms, the quality of its components is crucial, and the barrel is the most important part of a gun. The quality and reliability of the barrels is paramount. For example, if 2,000 rounds are to be fired without stop, consider the quality checks that are required. The ordnance factories have got these barrel production facilities. The facility at the ARDE will cater to the industries. We will implement them as turnkey projects. The industry will tell you the calibre, length and other parameters etc. We have the ballistic database with us. We will design the barrel based on industry requirements and produce it. We will also test the barrel and deliver it to the industry. This project was sanctioned three years ago, and it is now operational.”
A lot of private industries have now got licenses to manufacture small arms.
But the problem has always been the barrel. Remaining components can be manufactured but not the barrel, because it required capital intensive facilities, like the one that was inaugurated.
“The private industries of all sizes who have small arms manufacturing licences will benefit from this facility. These companies will manufacture arms for not just Indian entities but can also export them. India has nearly 30 customer entities for small arms. Apart from armed forces, there are paramilitary and central armed police forces and state police forces many of whom have specialised commando units. If we aggregate them, it is a big market.” said a senior scientist.
Small-arms barrel manufacturing facility opened in Pune, to benefit private players
ARDE has modified their MCIWS to use the 7.62x51mm:
Specs are not bad:
ARDE/DRDO are never going to figure out how to make their weapons ergonomic & have modern furniture on their guns. I've pretty much given up on that. At least they have started to get the hardware right. Ergonomics wise we have gone from worse than legacy AKs to on par with IWI Galils. But its is still far from modern AR variants.
On the other hand, a new startup can come up with weapons with better ergonomics & modern furniture.
Specs are not bad:
ARDE/DRDO are never going to figure out how to make their weapons ergonomic & have modern furniture on their guns. I've pretty much given up on that. At least they have started to get the hardware right. Ergonomics wise we have gone from worse than legacy AKs to on par with IWI Galils. But its is still far from modern AR variants.
On the other hand, a new startup can come up with weapons with better ergonomics & modern furniture.
Some of these DRDO labs require a new generation of scientists leading them.
What exactly is missing ergonomically in your opinion? This is miles better then INSAS. What we need is a reliable rifle with the bare necessities which can be produced quickly in large numbers.
US Army is going for XM7. At first glance, this is quite similar.
The pistol grip is raked at an unusual angle. I can't think of any other gun that has a pistol grip that is angling in like that. We don't know what effect that has on the user. Is there any wrist pain associated with prolonged use? Is it difficult for the user to manipulate the fire selector?
The trigger is unusually curved. Again, this goes against the global trend of trigger designs getting straighter with time. Most completion guns today have straight triggers.
There is a sling point on the barrel. That's just wrong. The barrel should be left undisturbed as much as possible. On that same point, the barrel has a bayonet lug. Ideally you ought to design a gun for shooting performance first. Bayonets and other cosmetic accessories may be added later. This is more of an Army GSQR problem than a ARDE problem.
Folding charging handle. There is no bolt release button, or at least I am not seeing one. So, the user has to pull the charging handle to re-load every new magazine. Re-loading with the charging handle is always slower than using a bolt release. Now by making the charging handle foldable they have made the already slow process slower. If the charging handle is like the INSAS then it is a non-reciprocating type. Why does it have to fold?
The lower handguard pretty much removes the probability of having any picatinny rails there. Using a straight or angled fore grip makes recoil management a lot easier than using a traditional handguard. Without rails none of that can be used. The rails at 3 & 9 positions are small & forward biased. So much wasted space.
I can go on. But you get my drift.
Agreed.
Totally agree. But like I wrote above, the things I have clubbed under "ergonomics" has a great deal of effect on the rifle's performance.
What ?!
They are not similar at all.
SSS Defence rifle internal testing video:
Photos:
Going by the length of the gun it is probably the 5.56x45 mm variant.
Overall weight is less than 3kgs:
Photos:
Going by the length of the gun it is probably the 5.56x45 mm variant.
Overall weight is less than 3kgs:
Armasen Tactical's SF Rig Plate carriers being tested:
Army's acquisition of 550 units of 9x19mm SMGs has entered second phase.
The initial participants were the following:
1. DEPL-Tanfoglio CBR-9/TCMP:
Italian firm Tanfoglio did at JV to market their SMG in India. No idea if manufacturing &/or assembly in India was on the table.
2. PLR Systems - IWI UZI Pro:
The IWI UZI is already in IA's service in good quantity. The UZI Pro is an improved variant of the original. PLR Systems makes the gun in India from raw material stage.
3. SSS Defence - G72 9mm SMG:
SSS Defence G72 SMG is a completely new product. Not much is known of this gun except the caliber. The only pic we have is the one above. This gun is still a work in progress than an actual product. SSSD will probably pitch this as a product tailor made for the IA, of course IA has to pay for its development.
4. Vinveli Automated Systems - CZUB CZ Scorpion:
Another JV. This time the OEM is from the Czech Republic. this JV has supplied some other rifles to some police units.
4. Optic Electronic - B&T MP-9:
The MP-9 is already used by IA, PARAs, NSG, Ghatak platoons etc. As with many other Swiss product, this too is incredibly expensive. I doubt local assembly will help reduce prices.
5. Jindal Defence - Taurus T9:
The Brazilian company just recently started production in India with their Indian partner. Their pistols for the civilian market have started arriving on stores.
6. IA-ARDE-LML - ASMI 9x19mm MP:
Other than the G-72, this is the only domestic player in this competition. Ironically much of its design was done by an Army officer to address the short falls of the UZI & the MP-9.
As of now, all but the last 2 participants have been disqualified in the technical evaluation stage. The last 2 are headed for financial evaluation.
I've made a chart comparing the 2 guns using publicly available information. I've used a bit of speculation too. I've marked in green the specs I thought were superior & in red the ones I thought were inferior. This is not a definitive comparison but a good rule of thumb:
ASMI seems to come out on top. There are other important details that I have avoided. Like cost of the gun, where ASMI would be better any day. The winner of this contest should be a no-brainer. But we all know that's not how arms procurement works in this country.
I'll attach a video of the ASMI below:
The initial participants were the following:
1. DEPL-Tanfoglio CBR-9/TCMP:
Italian firm Tanfoglio did at JV to market their SMG in India. No idea if manufacturing &/or assembly in India was on the table.
2. PLR Systems - IWI UZI Pro:
The IWI UZI is already in IA's service in good quantity. The UZI Pro is an improved variant of the original. PLR Systems makes the gun in India from raw material stage.
3. SSS Defence - G72 9mm SMG:
SSS Defence G72 SMG is a completely new product. Not much is known of this gun except the caliber. The only pic we have is the one above. This gun is still a work in progress than an actual product. SSSD will probably pitch this as a product tailor made for the IA, of course IA has to pay for its development.
4. Vinveli Automated Systems - CZUB CZ Scorpion:
Another JV. This time the OEM is from the Czech Republic. this JV has supplied some other rifles to some police units.
4. Optic Electronic - B&T MP-9:
The MP-9 is already used by IA, PARAs, NSG, Ghatak platoons etc. As with many other Swiss product, this too is incredibly expensive. I doubt local assembly will help reduce prices.
5. Jindal Defence - Taurus T9:
The Brazilian company just recently started production in India with their Indian partner. Their pistols for the civilian market have started arriving on stores.
6. IA-ARDE-LML - ASMI 9x19mm MP:
Other than the G-72, this is the only domestic player in this competition. Ironically much of its design was done by an Army officer to address the short falls of the UZI & the MP-9.
As of now, all but the last 2 participants have been disqualified in the technical evaluation stage. The last 2 are headed for financial evaluation.
I've made a chart comparing the 2 guns using publicly available information. I've used a bit of speculation too. I've marked in green the specs I thought were superior & in red the ones I thought were inferior. This is not a definitive comparison but a good rule of thumb:
ASMI seems to come out on top. There are other important details that I have avoided. Like cost of the gun, where ASMI would be better any day. The winner of this contest should be a no-brainer. But we all know that's not how arms procurement works in this country.
I'll attach a video of the ASMI below:
For some reason I don't seem to be getting notifications when you mention me.
@Ashwin
On topic, it's an IWI ARAD. Seems to be the newer version.
I'm not really a fan of Taurus...they're a bit here & there with regard to quality.
Might as well go with the ASMI.
If these two weren't the finalists, I'd have preferred the MP9 (for sake of commonality with existing stocks).
The SSSD option also looks good...I haven't seen a clear picture of it yet but from that photo it seems very much like a B&T APC9K (recently selected by the US Army as their 9mm PDW):
It would be interesting if SSS has indeed licensed the design from B&T...considering they're also fielding their MP9.
Objectively, I'd think this gun would have been the best (especially given its AR-style controls which would have much in common with our 716s). But then hey, IA has their weird requirements.
Strikingly similar looking.
I thought SSSD's USP was developing their own designs & thus owning the IP for the design. Why license someone else's design?
Also, why would B&T allow them a license? B&T has managed to sell their MP9 without needing any JVs & they can probably do it again. Why offer a potential competitor with your design for an order size of 550 units. Doesn't seem to make sense.
So, ASMI wins the IA's 550 units tender. Additionally, JD Taurus T9 is also given a 550 units order. IA is doing their own version of strategic balancing.
Idk if this was made clear or not so I will clear it it's their own product based on B&T design
that wouldn't take a genuise to guess they used imported butt stock in that pic and should be changing it anytime soon now and the gun isn't ready to fire with Indian Ammo yet it's a work in process so they never sent it for testing in the tender.
When you say based on B&T design, do you mean the design was licensed or was there some other arrangement.
What ammo does it fire?
No arrangements they will hold the IP themselves not hard to get just like how they hold IP for their AR
9mm they say it fires fine with imported ammo but has trouble with Indian OFB 9mm(could be ammo quality issue) and they are working towards solving it hence didn't take part in trails