Small Arms & Tactical Equipment
- Thread starter Parthu
- Start date
Yes it is overall a considerably better rifle. The possible reasons why we chose the AK-203 (a decision I don't agree with) were surmised in great detail by @Maximus in this same thread. Go back a bunch of pages and read his long write-ups.
Actually i wanted to get some info about the confirmed order & is this the only company which has got TOT from DRDO as the requirement is humongous?
Cross Post:
AK203, the wrong AK:
From your post and everything I could find online this is a furniture upgrade on an AKM with a hinge dust cover on the trunnion, and thus out of the Kalashnikov stable they picked the wrong rifle. The biggest issue with standard AK long stroke piston has been the offset mass of the breach which causes barrel flex which in turn effects accuracy of the system. Combined with the 7.62x39's ballistics , its auto mode fire although at an impressive rate , makes into a spray and pray type deal at ranges exceeding 300 yards. The only rifle currently offered that attempted to address this is a truly improved AKM platform from the Kalashnikov stable, it is the AK107 with the balanced counterweight recoil system. (read AK109 for 7.62x39 variant)
Operating Mechanism:
civilian variant
Small Arms & Tactical Equipment
This is about the closest I can get you to,these were posted 5 days after the initial proposal.
Defence Ministry clears proposal to buy 10 lakh 'Made in India' hand grenades for Army
Giving an edge! Indian Army to get 10 lakh Make In India multi-mode modern hand grenades
TOT for Shivalik multi-mode grenades ? Yes they are they only one. Yes the requirement is massive, but the orders are likely going to be in smaller quantities and there will be many orders, not a bulk single order purchase.
First clear image of the Victrix Armaments' Scorpio TCT sniper rifle in Indian service -
I've been looking at the configuration of this rifle (stock & handguard), and I can't help but feel the rifles we bought weren't Scorpio TCT/TGT at all.
It appears it is in fact the Scorpio MilLe variant - the military version of their Minerva lineup (TCT/TGT belong to the 'Minerva Tactical' lineup, probably aimed at law enforcement/SWAT users).
This is the Scorpio MilLe, note the folding stock & the M-LOK handguard :
Compare that to the image in my quoted post, then compare with what was reported to have been bought, the Scorpio TCT (TGT is a civilian target-shooting variant) :
Either the reports regarding the TCT purchase were errors, or the IA decided to change the order later on (unlikely). There is also the possibility that we indeed bought the TCT, but with the stock & fore-end taken from the MilLe variant. But these Victrix rifles are so similar across the board that if you disregard the furniture, there isn't much of a base difference between the MilLe and Tactical lineup anyway. Haven't gone through each tech spec myself, don't have the time right now - anyone willing might do it for me:
VICTRIX-ARMAMENTS | Scorpio TCT
VICTRIX-ARMAMENTS | Scorpio MilLe
OFB GHAATAK & OFB R-2.
It does have a milled receiver, for what that is worth.
You know, the Russians use their AKs with suppressors and then their gun comes out that long. Look at this thing.
If you are going to put a muzzle brake on a 7.62 why are those gas ports so small ? And how can anybody mount suppressors on them ?
It does have a milled receiver, for what that is worth.
You know, the Russians use their AKs with suppressors and then their gun comes out that long. Look at this thing.
If you are going to put a muzzle brake on a 7.62 why are those gas ports so small ? And how can anybody mount suppressors on them ?
looks like display pieces they have been lugging around every expo
- They really need to up their presentation
@Parthu , @Gautam, @Milspec . @Ashwin
Your Thoughts?
I have the follows queries
1) What are the Indian Mods done on the base AK203
2) This factory will only produce AK203 only for infantry or can they make mods for other operators for eg built in suppressor etc.
3) This Factory will also produce ammo too?
That gun in the picture isn't a AK 203. Its most probably a Romanian AK modified with a FAB Defence AK mod kit. The sight on that thing is a Alpha Defence Technology Ltd.(ADTL) sight. For more on the sight check post #507 on page no 26 of this thread.
Namely : an angled grip or maybe a straight foldable grip, tac lights(daylight or IR), Laser sights(possible but unlikely) and optical sights(maybe an ADTL scope like the one in the pic, or maybe FALKE-LE or BEL sights etc.)
What do you mean by built in suppressor ? As in integrated suppressor like the VSS Vintorez has ? Well the AK 203 was never designed with an integrated suppressor, but it can run a suppressor on top of the barrel.
One of the primary reasons for the selection of a AK instead of say a AR family rifle is because almost all of our OFBs produce the 7.62x39 mm bullets. We have no problems with the AK ammo front.
Probably the same mods that the AK in the pic is running.
Namely : an angled grip or maybe a straight foldable grip, tac lights(daylight or IR), Laser sights(possible but unlikely) and optical sights(maybe an ADTL scope like the one in the pic, or maybe FALKE-LE or BEL sights etc.)
The factory is going to make guns. Plain guns, no mods. If we ever make a contract with the Russians about the suppressors they run on their AKs then this factory can produce suppressors for our AKs.
What do you mean by built in suppressor ? As in integrated suppressor like the VSS Vintorez has ? Well the AK 203 was never designed with an integrated suppressor, but it can run a suppressor on top of the barrel.
No they won't.
One of the primary reasons for the selection of a AK instead of say a AR family rifle is because almost all of our OFBs produce the 7.62x39 mm bullets. We have no problems with the AK ammo front.
1) What are the Indian Mods done on the base AK203
More than accessorization, I don't think there can be any mods. Indian companies government or private doesn't build Moly Van Barrels or SS match barrels, at most I would put a magpul zukhov stock if already not there.
2) This factory will only produce AK203 only for infantry or can they make mods for other operators for eg built in suppressor etc.
Just to address, the Built in part, you do not want a built-in suppressor, most rifles around the world will take a 5/4x24 thread pitch, you need an adapter for 14x1LH adapter for the AK. The operator should be able to decide when he wants to be heard, in a firefight especially in providing cover, the noise is a significant force multiplier and a demoralizer for the enemy.
3) This Factory will also produce ammo too?
Assuming you already have other OFB factories producing 7.62x39mm ammo, I doubt there will be any benefit in replicating the production facility.
If anyone is listening, there is still time to rectify the issue and switch to an Ak109 configuration, that will go a long way for the factory.
So many different plate carriers in use
RR in Kashmir :
RR in Leh :
Para :
And many more. What are they doing here ? trying to figure out the best/worst elements of each type of plate carriers ? That might not be a bad idea, given we do use the gained knowledge to standardize at some point of time ?
RR in Kashmir :
RR in Leh :
Para :
And many more. What are they doing here ? trying to figure out the best/worst elements of each type of plate carriers ? That might not be a bad idea, given we do use the gained knowledge to standardize at some point of time ?
Thanks for the reply
Sorry should have been a little clear - The question i had was could this factory can make modification of the base AK203 to suit operators other than infantry such as SF or Ghatak Platoons and gave the built in suppressor as AN EXAMPLE of a MOD ... that is it .
The reasoning of this is question of IP of the AK203 - is it restrictive to what the factory can make or not?
Modifications such as shortening of the barrel, Extension of the mag release is all I can think of. To suit operators, other than small mods like these, there isn't a lot of scope. I am pretty sure OFB is not capable of changing calibers or implementing a counterbalance piston.
So other than small modifications and some accessorization, there isn't much scope to do much with this system. The only other thing I can think of is a RPK or PSL variant with this system, but again I don't think OFB is capable of doing that.
To the best of my understanding what the factory will do is make the gun according to the design specs provided by the Russians. That's it, we won't own any of the IP.
As far as modifying the basic AK is concerned, I highly doubt it. I mean the OFB has been making AK esque gun for a really long time yet look at the designs they come up with. Integrated suppressor is a bridge too far.
@GuardianRED this is from MoD Annual Report :
What "other small arms" are we buying from the Russians ?
@Parthu @Milspec @Ashwin @_Anonymous_ @randomradio
What "other small arms" are we buying from the Russians ?
@Parthu @Milspec @Ashwin @_Anonymous_ @randomradio
Seesh the quality of reporting. Awful lot of gas, no mention of the model name or manufacturer of a single weapon. @Parthu any idea which weapons we are getting ?
EXCLUSIVE: Indian Army's Special Forces to get new weapons
India
By Srinjoy Chowdhury | National Affairs Editor
Updated Jul 26, 2019 | 23:25 IST
The weapons, similar to ones used by the Special Forces of the United States armed forces, will be purchased through Foreign Military Sales (FMS) route.
Key Highlights
New Delhi: The best deserve the best. Or, that is at least what the Indian Army may be thinking as it begins an effort to ensure that its special forces battalions — para-commandos, mostly — get world-class weapons. A high-level committee has just cleared the purchase of new weapons for the Special Forces, whether it is rifles, carbines, light and heavy machine guns, even parachutes and special helmets.
The weapons will be what the special forces of the United States armed forces use; they will be purchased through the Foreign Military Sales (FMS) route and is expected by the year-end. The total cost is likely to be about Rs 850 crore.
The decision cleared by the defence ministry's Services Capital Acquisition Plan Categorization Higher Committee (SCAPHCC), headed by a top-level army officer earlier this week has cleared the purchase of 1,500 carbines, 1,100 rifles, 400 parachutes, 100 sniper rifles, 750 light machine-guns and also, technical equipment that will enhance the capability of the special forces soldier.
They include silencers for the rifles/carbines that will muffle the sound of the shot being fired, telescopic sights (to be used during the day and different ones for use after dark), helmets that will have night vision goggles, heavy machine-guns and of course, necessary ammunition.
The special forces teams have been particularly active; they were responsible, along with some infantrymen for the surgical strikes that were carried out in Pakistan Occupied Kashmir (POK) after the Uri terror attacks. They have also been used in the North-east and very often when there are terror attacks.
They are some of the fittest and best-trained officers and men and now, they will get the best possible weapons. The high-quality weapons could make a lot of difference in a critical, high-risk mission.
EXCLUSIVE: Indian Army's Special Forces to get new weapons
EXCLUSIVE: Indian Army's Special Forces to get new weapons
India
By Srinjoy Chowdhury | National Affairs Editor
Updated Jul 26, 2019 | 23:25 IST
The weapons, similar to ones used by the Special Forces of the United States armed forces, will be purchased through Foreign Military Sales (FMS) route.
Key Highlights
- Services Capital Acquisition Plan Categorization Higher Committee cleared the purchase of 1500 carbines, 1100 rifles, 400 parachutes, 100 sniper rifles
- The total cost of the acquisition is likely to be about Rs 850 crore
New Delhi: The best deserve the best. Or, that is at least what the Indian Army may be thinking as it begins an effort to ensure that its special forces battalions — para-commandos, mostly — get world-class weapons. A high-level committee has just cleared the purchase of new weapons for the Special Forces, whether it is rifles, carbines, light and heavy machine guns, even parachutes and special helmets.
The weapons will be what the special forces of the United States armed forces use; they will be purchased through the Foreign Military Sales (FMS) route and is expected by the year-end. The total cost is likely to be about Rs 850 crore.
The decision cleared by the defence ministry's Services Capital Acquisition Plan Categorization Higher Committee (SCAPHCC), headed by a top-level army officer earlier this week has cleared the purchase of 1,500 carbines, 1,100 rifles, 400 parachutes, 100 sniper rifles, 750 light machine-guns and also, technical equipment that will enhance the capability of the special forces soldier.
They include silencers for the rifles/carbines that will muffle the sound of the shot being fired, telescopic sights (to be used during the day and different ones for use after dark), helmets that will have night vision goggles, heavy machine-guns and of course, necessary ammunition.
The special forces teams have been particularly active; they were responsible, along with some infantrymen for the surgical strikes that were carried out in Pakistan Occupied Kashmir (POK) after the Uri terror attacks. They have also been used in the North-east and very often when there are terror attacks.
They are some of the fittest and best-trained officers and men and now, they will get the best possible weapons. The high-quality weapons could make a lot of difference in a critical, high-risk mission.
EXCLUSIVE: Indian Army's Special Forces to get new weapons