Sukhoi Su-30MKI

[Sathya]

If I didn't know better I'd say it has all the imprint of the AL-51 all over it . Or at least it's benefitted quite a lot from that program.

We have ToT for Al 31 so refusing to upgrade to Al 41 to have more autonomy.
We ordered around 250 engines recently and even produced few.

Will we change the engines paying additional amount for ToT or will we lose autonomy without tot..

Mig 29 also same, we Just paid for RD engines.. Platform also won't be in service more than 10 years.


And we also don't have indigenous programs based on Russian engine to use anywhere else.

 

[Sathya]

Russia To “Boost” China’s J-10 Fighters With New Engines; Unlike PLAAF, IAF Ignores Su-30MKI Engine Upgrades

The United Engine Corporation (UEC) of Russia’s Rostec State Corporation will showcase the improved AL-31FN Series 5 engine for the first time abroad at the Zhuhai Airshow 2024 in China, which will be held from November 12 to 17. According to the UEC, the Series 5 engine will significantly...

www.eurasiantimes.com

https://twitter.com/x/status/1854848791473750406

 

[Gautam]

If I didn't know better I'd say it has all the imprint of the AL-51 all over it . Or at least it's benefitted quite a lot from that program.

Yep. Borrows heavily from the Al-51.

Russia's UEC unveils a new engine based on the Al-31/41 family of engines:
View attachment 37846
This engine will feature a new fan. Improved engine life. Increased mean time between overhauls. 4 engines have been manufactured for testing. Will be compatible will all fighters using the Al-31/41 engines.

Potential candidate for engine upgrade if India decides to go for it.

This is the full-sized mockup of this engine.

 

[_Anonymous_]

We have ToT for Al 31 so refusing to upgrade to Al 41 to have more autonomy.
We ordered around 250 engines recently and even produced few.

Will we change the engines paying additional amount for ToT or will we lose autonomy without tot..

Mig 29 also same, we Just paid for RD engines.. Platform also won't be in service more than 10 years.


And we also don't have indigenous programs based on Russian engine to use anywhere else.

IAF has already made a decision. Order for 250 nos AL-31FP given & for RD-33 for the MiG -29 fleet recently. The latter is not going to be with us for more than 10-15 years . The former shouldn't be with us for more than 40 years.

It's based on these calculations that the IAF must've taken the decision they have . Rest assured the Russians would first inform the IAF of any new development , hence they must've long informed us of this new TF. In all likelihood the same must've been evaluated too at least in a preliminary manner by the IAF.

Secondly all Russian claims ought to be taken with a pinch of salt even otherwise more so now when their economy is troubled & they've practically lost the export market for their defence products for one reason or another .

That Vijainder Singh is a Russian stooge . Take whatever he says with a pinch of salt.

 

[_Anonymous_]

Russia To “Boost” China’s J-10 Fighters With New Engines; Unlike PLAAF, IAF Ignores Su-30MKI Engine Upgrades

The United Engine Corporation (UEC) of Russia’s Rostec State Corporation will showcase the improved AL-31FN Series 5 engine for the first time abroad at the Zhuhai Airshow 2024 in China, which will be held from November 12 to 17. According to the UEC, the Series 5 engine will significantly...

www.eurasiantimes.com

https://twitter.com/x/status/1854848791473750406

He seems to suggest to suggest that the J-10 will be equipped with the new Series 5 TF. If that is indeed the case, it should tell you the tale of Chinese TFs . However there seems to be no independent corroboration for this piece of news.

 

[marich01]

IAF has already made a decision. Order for 250 nos AL-31FP given & for RD-33 for the MiG -29 fleet recently. The latter is not going to be with us for more than 10-15 years . The former shouldn't be with us for more than 40 years.

Quite sure the su30 fleet will be there till at least 2055. After that, perhaps gradual phasing out. I am curious about what they plan to replace this with, 5th gen or higher are always high cost affair so won't replace the full fleet size. So which economic solution they plan to take wrt the twin engine air superiority fighters. Of course they have to lean back on high spec 4th gen upgraded options to sustain nos in some way, now which jet would that be, a rafale local prod or a rus option finally again .

 

[_Anonymous_]

Quite sure the su30 fleet will be there till at least 2055.

Difference between should & would. They should be retiring it in 40 years from date of induction vs they WILL retire it in 50 -55 years & risk the MiG -21 saga once again.

I'm with the @Ankit Kumar line of thinking here . Never use a piece of Russian equipment for more time than the Russians themselves use it especially if we follow a doctrine of extensive training NATO style on Russian equipment built as they are for a limited lifespan with extensive maintenance , the philosophy being low CAPEX & medium to high OPEX , the very opposite of western philosophy for their defence equipment.

Should also explain the reason the former SU went in for the kind of quantities they did . Apart from a vast land mass & "Quantity " being a "Quality" of its own , it also conformed to their training philosophy. No surprises China's following the same philosophy whereas Russians are struggling with it for years due to economic issues.

After that, perhaps gradual phasing out. I am curious about what they plan to replace this with, 5th gen or higher are always high cost affair so won't replace the full fleet size. So which economic solution they plan to take wrt the twin engine air superiority fighters. Of course they have to lean back on high spec 4th gen upgraded options to sustain nos in some way, now which jet would that be, a rafale local prod or a rus option finally again .

Wait for the AMCA Mk-1 to come out . My gut feeling is it being semi stealth with options for external pylons will be the multi role / omni role FA we're seeking in the Rafales & may even end up replacing the MKIs initially.

Long term I'm in favour of an 6th Gen AHCA , the preliminary studies of which should begin in a couple of years & work on realising the technology for which should begin by the early 2030s . Work on final assembly testing & FOC should be over by 2050 followed by series production by early 2050s.

Will it happen ? Yes it will . Will it happen in the timescale I've put out ? Of course not.

 

[Speedster1]

IAF has already made a decision. Order for 250 nos AL-31FP given & for RD-33 for the MiG -29 fleet recently. The latter is not going to be with us for more than 10-15 years . The former shouldn't be with us for more than 40 years.

It's based on these calculations that the IAF must've taken the decision they have . Rest assured the Russians would first inform the IAF of any new development , hence they must've long informed us of this new TF. In all likelihood the same must've been evaluated too at least in a preliminary manner by the IAF.

Secondly all Russian claims ought to be taken with a pinch of salt even otherwise more so now when their economy is troubled & they've practically lost the export market for their defence products for one reason or another .

That Vijainder Singh is a Russian stooge . Take whatever he says with a pinch of salt.

The problem with Russian TFs like AL-31 has always been high maintenance, and low uptime (MTBO, MTBF), compared to Western ac.

I remember reading somewhere that MTBO for Al-31 series engines was some 500 hours.

That's one reason why the IAF is not in a hurry to buy newer AL-41s or it's variants.

It would also want to its hedge its bets against potential supply chain disruptions affecting local production and Russian shenanigans wrt ToT once a deal is signed.

It'd be too early to assess the Al-51s performance since the RuAF only flies a handful of them.

So the IAF is focusing on sustaining and incrementally improving in-service engines with input from Midhani, etc.

Although it remains to be seen if any IP issues arise from such mods. Saturn will likely refuse to certify any engines upgraded in India, unless of course, we pay them.