We have integr Brahmos without Russia certifying it. No Russian certification is needed. When we use all new electronics from non Russian source, we do not need Rusian source code to integrate it. I think Astra MK1 is already integrated with MKI.
Sukhoi Su-30MKI
- Thread starter Ashwin
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We have integr Brahmos without Russia certifying it. No Russian certification is needed. When we use all new electronics from non Russian source, we do not need Rusian source code to integrate it. I think Astra MK1 is already integrated with MKI.
It’s necessary and it was provided by the OEM. Brahmos is a Russian system anyway.
Not true. Only IR guided weapons can work because they generally don’t need data from radar for target acquisition. Although the newer hybrid WVRAAMs do need some data to work it’s full potential.
Again Astra Mk 1 uses Russian seeker by AGAT and we have some agreements for local weapon systems.
But Airworthiness certification is mandatory for any weapon integration if you don’t intend to violate the OEM warranty.
Brahmos need no electronics integration. What it need is certification of airframe's capability to carry the load. We did it ourselves. Russia had asked 1400 cr INR to do it. We did it in 80 crore.
It's unlikely the IAF is planning on changing the engine. They are looking for a least risky upgrade roadmap. MBDA has denied Meteor for Russian aircraft. But we have Astra Mk3 on the way. In the meantime, there's Derby ER and Astra Mk2.
We have no issues in incorporating anything we want, including Western weapons. MICA IR, ASRAAM and Derby ER are going on the MKI already. SPICE has also been integrated. More foreign weapons are on the way. The MKI's EW suite will be fully Indian, it has already finished development, apart from most other electronics. Only the radar is not yet known. Since the mission computer is Indian, we can integrate anything we want on it.
Keep fingers crossed for an upgrade contract in December.
What not true? I am talking about Changing all electronics including Radar. We already have integrated Astra MK1.
I said that We can integrate Meteor if France allow.
So ? You still need airworthiness certification for any modifications of the plane including its airframe. Yes we did it in India but it has been given the certification by Russian OEM ie JSC Sukhoi.
Seeker is already been replaced with Indian one if I am not wrong. We integrated Brahmos without Rusian certification.
Give the reference of Rusia certifying it. If Russia can certify it after we integrate, they will certify AAM integration as well. What is there to worry about?
Re read your post to which I gave the answer.
I think so too.
Not true. We need Airworthiness Certificates for any modifications including those trivial ones like MRF tyres instead of OEM supplies tyres which was done due to supply issues. Or those drag chute used for short landing.
It may look insignificant to you but even for those too we need OEM certification.
I think we should have option of not going for immediate engine change but only during MLU. 14%thrust upgrade is not much considering Al 31FB is not underpowered. But in long term changing to AL 41 will be more logical considering that RuAF too is going for the same engine and it’s also claimed to have more life span and MTBO.
Many reporters are claiming similar time line for signing of the contract. BTW we should press for AESA radar from Su 57 if it’s matured enough.
The problem isn't the thrust but electrical power. The 117S provides a significant boost in electrical power over the AL-31F. The question is whether the IAF is fine with the current level of power or they have an alternative.
The Russians wanted to develop a much more capable radar than what's on the Su-57 for the MKI upgrade.
I'm hoping for the signatures of the MKI MLU, AK-203 and Ka-226T next month, along with 12 MKIs and 21 Mig-29s. The 12 MKIs will also be upgraded.
All these upgrades are terribly delayed and should be done on war footing. Seeing the amount of well coordinated Chinese propaganda, we should not let our guards down.
Hope at least one follow on order of two squadrons of Rafale too should be ordered without waiting for MMRCA or whatever they are calling that monkey shopping nowadays.
Anything about artillery upgrades ? Chinese are miles ahead in that department and can saturate IA in no time.
Why no chatter about any light artillery system like Kalyani Garuda in IA ? PLA have so many different types of light artillery system capable to be deployed in high altitude terrain like Ladakh.
Without changing the engine, the MKI upgrade should come in quite a bit faster than new Rafales though. Anyway, I don't think the IAF is interested in delaying the MRFA any more than it already is. We should have started the tender back in 2019.
I'd actually prefer spending money on 2 squadrons of Su-57 instead. For the same amount we spent on Rafale customisation, we can pay for the full MKIzation of the Su-57 with MKI MLU avionics.
We have more than enough 155mm guns for Ladakh.
IA is only interested in 155mm guns. Otherwise, we have a hell lot of light guns, in the thousands.
We need more mobile guns, but the MGS tender is still in the works.
I have already explan the case of certification.
Engine replacement will require irrespective of whether we go for AL31 or AL41. At the time of replacement, we can go for AL41 which is a better engine in all aspects.
And didn’t I said that you are not correct. What’s your confusion ?
PS: Before claiming anything, learn to read about it or at least apply some common sense.
HAL is outsourcing a few of the upgrades for the Su-30MKI via. the iDEX program. They are doing a lot of the work themselves with some DRDO labs:
It is you who is confused , not me. I said that we made sukhois capable of carrying Brahmos on our own and Russia certified it later (I believe your clain as I do not have any information on it). Similarly, if we make our own radar , missile Russia can certify it if required. We have already integrated Brahmos and Astra mk1. Now, Rudram is also integrated or being integrated. We already have a plan to upgrade MKIs to Super Sukhoi. Most of the stuff which is going to go into it is planned to be sourced from Desi source. So mow please do not defend indefensible.
If Russsia desires to certify. And they are very moody bunch.
Also there are certain limits beyond which even Russian OEM can’t integrate a western subsystem, let alone a third party.
Both have Russian seekers and we have agreements with them for further development (co development as they say ) and integration of other types of local seekers like MMW and Ku band.
No western party involved.
Never heard of that name from any official source So can’t comment on rumours
Not true. Check the post number 1578. Su 30 SM2 standard for India is called Super Sukhoi upgrade (with minor exceptions like mission computer, EW pods, Local BVRAAM etc)
Its mostly Russian AFAIK.
Don’t have to. I don’t go by rumours.
Sukhoi Su-30MKI
Multiple issues as it's still a prototype. From the press release, it looks like permanent magnets coupled to the spool shaft,= so a DC generator. Such a system in a brand new purely DC system is fine, Frequency won't be an issue, no issues of THDi, THDv, TDD. But if you have AC systems in the...
HAL has a habit of promising Moon and provides eggs.Sukhoi Su-30MKI
Multiple issues as it's still a prototype. From the press release, it looks like permanent magnets coupled to the spool shaft,= so a DC generator. Such a system in a brand new purely DC system is fine, Frequency won't be an issue, no issues of THDi, THDv, TDD. But if you have AC systems in the...www.strategicfront.org
AESA radar is nowhere near ready. It’s not even installed in any of its second tier jets like Mig 29 or even HAL made LCA and have not shown its operational readiness and performance in real life missions in any form. I doubt IAF will take the bait for its front line aircraft which forms the backbone of its AirPower. It’ll be a huge gamble for IAF if it goes for UTTAM derivative as Western radar is out of question.
Thales Topsight HMD is already integrated.
No western weapons integrated so for on MKI except few Israeli guided bombs and heat seeking WVRAAM.
And even those are mostly hacks and not full integration as we see in western fully integrated weapon systems (as per PKS). These are not the optimal solutions but necessary arrangements.
Rest of the components are minor subsystems and can be sourced from local/western OEMs like what was done in MKI.
BTW PKS is saying that Su 30 will continue to rely on podded SPJ as internal SPJ is not available.
AESA radar is not clear yet, but most of the stuff going on MKI will be Indian. This includes the helmet, targeting pod, IRST, IFF/CIT, the full EW suite, cockpit etc. Many of them are official projects.
IRST:
EW suite:
DR118 RWR | Defence Research and Development Organisation - DRDO, Ministry of Defence, Government of India
The Electronic Warfare scenario is changing very rapidly. With advances in technology, the radar systems have become more and more sophisticated. The duty cycles of the signals are ever increasing and power levels are coming down. Intra-pulse characteristics of the pulses are making them more...
And yes, the MKI will use podded jammer. The IAF doesn't want major changes in the airframe. The podded jammer is under flight testing.
DRDO ASPJ One Step Closer - Desi Pod | Alpha Defense
One of the most anticipated systems under the Indian Defence EW umbrella suite has been the Airborne Self Protection Jamming Pod (ASPJ).
alphadefense.in
Uttam radar development is complete. Now it's only about adding in more advanced tech or scaling it up. A GaN version will begin testing next year. Regardless of whether it's chosen or not for the MKI, at least the option exists now.
Plenty of non-Russians weapons are being integrated on the MKI. The latest one was the MICA IR. Derby ER is coming up next along with ASRAAM. SPICE integration has already completed. Two WVR missiles, one BVR missile and a family of glide bombs, that's already plenty. The only thing left is a Western stealth cruise missile, but one hasn't been chosen yet, pending an Indian option.