Sukhoi Su-30MKI

[AbRaj]

It's certified on Su-35 which is a derivative of su30mki. So there should be no problem in integrating it on su30mki too. Also by all means these 12 will be coming with S117 engines too with 144kn Power. Or may I say a template of super Sukhoi...

Su 35 is different plane with much more powerful engines and new avionics, which later used in Su 57.
And integration to MKI is even more complicated as @random radio once said due to it being highly customised using western, Israeli and Indian subsystems as we all know.

 

[lcafanboy]

Su 35 is different plane with much more powerful engines and new avionics, which later used in Su 57.
And integration to MKI is even more complicated as @random radio once said due to it being highly customised using western, Israeli and Indian subsystems as we all know.

S117 Engines are modified AL31s so are drop fit, no need for recertification. It also has MIL1553 Bus and any type of weapons radars or electronic warfare suite can be integrated. Already SAP518 as well as Israeli elta jammers have been integrated into it. So it shouldn't be a problem integrating khibney too.
By the way it's for the first time khibney has been offered to a foreign country by Russians. Very less is known about it. Last time they used it on uss Donald cook it became a sitting Duck for Turkey shoot...

 

[AbRaj]

S117 Engines are modified AL31s so are drop fit, no need for recertification.

Kibhiny apparently needs more power compared to older gen SAP pods. And IAF is planning to retain AL 31.

It also has MIL1553 Bus and any type of weapons radars or electronic warfare suite can be integrated. Already SAP518 as well as Israeli elta jammers have been integrated into it. So it shouldn't be a problem integrating khibney too.

It can be. But integration needs time, effort, money and subsequently needs certification from OEM. And that’s what my question about.

It’s like if some app runs on ios 6 don’t automatically means that it’ll run on ios 12. It’s needs reintegration/porting for running smoothly.

By the way it's for the first time khibney has been offered to a foreign country by Russians.

Because they themselves are planning to use it on Su 30 SM2

 

[randomradio]

AFIK SU 30 also uses SAP 518 Jamming pods in the role, very similar to ALQ 99 of Prowler and Growlers

The expected cost of the 12 MKIs is 12000cr or so, that's $1.6B, out of which the jets alone should cost only $600M.

The remaining $1B is a pretty massive amount for just a few pods that were integrated a decade ago. The EW suite is also largely Indian, and beign even more Indianised as we speak, so I don't see why the Russians will get involved in this.

This is very likely to be the first set of jets moving towards the MKI MLU standards. I'm expecting a new radar and an upgraded AL-31FP instead.

 

[lcafanboy]

Kibhiny apparently needs more power compared to older gen SAP pods. And IAF is planning to retain AL 31.

It can be. But integration needs time, effort, money and subsequently needs certification from OEM. And that’s what my question about.

It’s like if some app runs on ios 6 don’t automatically means that it’ll run on ios 12. It’s needs reintegration/porting for running smoothly.

Because they themselves are planning to use it on Su 30 SM2

Russia will upgrade its Su-30SM to the “Super-Sukhoi” standard

Russia will upgrade its Su-30SM to the “Super-Sukhoi” standard

The Russian Defense Ministry gave the green light to the Su-30SM upgrade program, an aircraft that has been deployed in large numbers in the Air Force and Naval

www.aviacionline.com

Russians themselves are replacing Al31 with S117 on su30sm2 making it at par with Su-35 in all respects. You can expect same for su30mki plus India always have their own set of specifications like it will be sporting Bnet link and other Israeli stuff too making it better than Russian Su-35 and su30sm2....

 

[_Anonymous_]

Russia will upgrade its Su-30SM to the “Super-Sukhoi” standard

Russia will upgrade its Su-30SM to the “Super-Sukhoi” standard

The Russian Defense Ministry gave the green light to the Su-30SM upgrade program, an aircraft that has been deployed in large numbers in the Air Force and Naval

www.aviacionline.com

Russians themselves are replacing Al31 with S117 on su30sm2 making it at par with Su-35 in all respects. You can expect same for su30mki plus India always have their own set of specifications like it will be sporting Bnet link and other Israeli stuff too making it better than Russian Su-35 and su30sm2....

The radar is still a PESA radar. Weren't they also developing an AESA radar, in all probability, the same one to go into the PAKFA or a derivative?

 

[AbRaj]

Russia will upgrade its Su-30SM to the “Super-Sukhoi” standard

Russia will upgrade its Su-30SM to the “Super-Sukhoi” standard

The Russian Defense Ministry gave the green light to the Su-30SM upgrade program, an aircraft that has been deployed in large numbers in the Air Force and Naval

www.aviacionline.com

Russians themselves are replacing Al31 with S117 on su30sm2 making it at par with Su-35 in all respects. You can expect same for su30mki plus India always have their own set of specifications like it will be sporting Bnet link and other Israeli stuff too making it better than Russian Su-35 and su30sm2....

I’ve already posted about that few pages earlier and everything including engine change decision has been discussed in this same thread.

 

[randomradio]

Russia will upgrade its Su-30SM to the “Super-Sukhoi” standard

Russia will upgrade its Su-30SM to the “Super-Sukhoi” standard

The Russian Defense Ministry gave the green light to the Su-30SM upgrade program, an aircraft that has been deployed in large numbers in the Air Force and Naval

www.aviacionline.com

Russians themselves are replacing Al31 with S117 on su30sm2 making it at par with Su-35 in all respects. You can expect same for su30mki plus India always have their own set of specifications like it will be sporting Bnet link and other Israeli stuff too making it better than Russian Su-35 and su30sm2....

Don't hold your breath for the 117S just yet. This seems to be a more political and economic decision than technical. We will need official confirmation before we jump the gun here.

We have paid a frig load of money for the ToT and manufacture of the AL-31FP. We can't afford to pay twice in money and time for the same effort with the 117S. We have more to fear from increasing our dependency on Russia and less to fear from a bit lesser thrust and power.

Anyway I don't think thrust is a major issue, since the switch to AESA will compensate for the weight increase elsewhere. The Bars weighs 650Kg, the Irbis-E weighs 350Kg, an AESA could weigh well below 300Kg. Switching metal with composites in some areas can also decrease weight. Removing the air brakes will help. God knows, the MLU may actually reduce the empty weight of the MKI. But the engine definitely needs a boost in electrical output. A boost by 50-100% will do the trick.

 

[Sathya]

@randomradio
No sign of Super sukhoi / Mig 29 / Su 30 replacement..

 

[Sathya]

@randomradio
No sign of Super sukhoi / Mig 29 / Su 30 replacement..

https://twitter.com/x/status/1467874612570558466

Related?

 

[STEPHEN COHEN]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1467874612570558466

Related?

Russia, India to sign 10 bilateral agreements including semi-confidential ones, says Russian presidential aide | India News - Times of India

India News: MOSCOW (RUSSIA): Russia and India will sign 10 bilateral agreements in various areas including some semi-confidential ones following the talks between.

www.google.com

Seeing the Body Language and Bonhomie all around , we can safely say that there will be many confidential agreements

The Type of Weapons , And Quantities will be classified

All this is happening because of China

An Aggressive China is Not Good even for Russia , given the Vast Tracts of Siberian Territories that the Chinese are dreaming about and Russians know this

 

[STEPHEN COHEN]

With 1st PM-Putin Meet In 2 Years, India, Russia Sign 28 Deals: 10 Points

Prime Minister Narendra Modi today welcomed Russin President Vladimir Putin on his brief visit to India saying it's a reflection of the latter's commitment to ties with India. This is Mr Putin's second overseas trip since the Covid pandemic began.

www.google.com

 

[randomradio]

@randomradio
No sign of Super sukhoi / Mig 29 / Su 30 replacement..

2022 then.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1467874612570558466

Related?

Everybody wants India to choose a side, but India wants to be its own side. We are gonna make decisions that affect us rather than us bothering about others' equations with each other.

Russia may be getting closer to China, but it seems more like it's China that wants to get closer to Russia than the other way round. The Russians obviously don't want to get pulled in as a junior partner since that's how China will want to treat them. And with the exception of dealing with the US, they don't have a lot of common ground elsewhere. Like the Russians do not want Chinese influence in Turkey, Iran etc, and they do not want China to get closer to Europe. They do not want enmity with Japan. And they also want to keep China out of the Arctic. China's growing nuclear arsenal also bothers them, since this will force the US to counter, which in turn puts pressure on themselves. They can't afford a nuclear arms race at this time.

If we get pulled in as a junior partner to the US, then we are gonna have to stand against Russia in some areas. But if we make our stance clear, ie, becoming our own side, then we get far more options than before.

Lucky for India, even Russia is working to buy time before they are able to compete with others on even footing. So our relationship will remain strong as long as we do not become a military ally with the US.

In any case, this is only in relation to future deals like S-500 and Su-57. When it comes to the Su-30 and Mig-29, it will happen regardless of where our relationship is headed.

 

[STEPHEN COHEN]

In any case, this is only in relation to future deals like S-500 and Su-57. When it comes to the Su-30 and Mig-29, it will happen regardless of where our relationship is headed.

I dont think there will be Any announcements on MiG 29 and Su 30 Upgrades and Purchases

More importantly it can even be in Multiples , say 21 x 2 AND 12 x 3

Repeat and Follow on orders need not be disclosed

Also if we want Russian help in Restraining China we will need to Invest in Su 75

BTW DRDO Chief was also on the Discussion Table

So Hypersonic Technology is also on the Cards along with More Cooperation where ever necessary whether it is Longer Range SLBM s or Some LR -LACM

We went The whole 9 Yards in Today's meetings

2 + 2 ; Ten Year Technical Cooperation Framework , RELOS , 28 agreements in various fields -- Putin must Send a Thank You Note to Eleven ie Mean XI Jinping

Given the Renewed , Rejuvenated and Revitalised Relationship with Russia , I have a feeling that Indian
Security establishment Does Not Really Trust the QUAD

 

[randomradio]

I dont think there will be Any announcements on MiG 29 and Su 30 Upgrades and Purchases

More importantly it can even be in Multiples , say 21 x 2 AND 12 x 3

Repeat and Follow on orders need not be disclosed

Stuff like this will be revealed. Only direct imports can be hidden to a certain extent, like many of our emergency purchases.

BTW DRDO Chief was also on the Discussion Table

So Hypersonic Technology is also on the Cards along with More Cooperation where ever necessary whether it is Longer Range SLBM s or Some LR -LACM

We went The whole 9 Yards in Today's meetings

2 + 2 ; Ten Year Technical Cooperation Framework , RELOS , 28 agreements in various fields -- Putin must Send a Thank You Note to Eleven ie Mean XI Jinping

Given the Renewed , Rejuvenated and Revitalised Relationship with Russia , I have a feeling that Indian
Security establishment Does Not Really Trust the QUAD

Only Russia has a proven track record of transferring high end technology to date, so yeah, our cooperation with them is important. We have a lot of shared interests in the Middle East and CAR, so that helps a lot.

 

[Sathya]

I dont think there will be Any announcements on MiG 29 and Su 30 Upgrades and Purchases

More importantly it can even be in Multiples , say 21 x 2 AND 12 x 3

Repeat and Follow on orders need not be disclosed

Also if we want Russian help in Restraining China we will need to Invest in Su 75

BTW DRDO Chief was also on the Discussion Table

So Hypersonic Technology is also on the Cards along with More Cooperation where ever necessary whether it is Longer Range SLBM s or Some LR -LACM

We went The whole 9 Yards in Today's meetings

2 + 2 ; Ten Year Technical Cooperation Framework , RELOS , 28 agreements in various fields -- Putin must Send a Thank You Note to Eleven ie Mean XI Jinping

Given the Renewed , Rejuvenated and Revitalised Relationship with Russia , I have a feeling that Indian
Security establishment Does Not Really Trust the QUAD

Semi confidential ones may be for getting around Caatsa involving high tech ones.

I doubt we signed for any aircraft s.
We were also left in lambo similarly in many deals like additional Phalcon.. Etc.

Caatsa is the reason maybe we aren't buying many weapons.

 

[jetray]

I have a feeling that Indian
Security establishment Does Not Really Trust the QUAD

QUAD is nonsense, it is simply a white boys gang. Nothing will come out of it. If we look at US actions, it is not helping India much but more of increasing the distrust between India & china. India gets to buy military hardware as a business transaction but in other areas like trade, commerce, technology or multilateral forum like UN there's literally less or nothing much to boast abt. US still keeps hyphenating India with pakistan.

Caatsa is the reason maybe we aren't buying many weapons.

The number of deals signed between India & Russia sends a big message, that things like CAATSA will be counter productive. CAATSA is just a US version of chinese intimidation. CAATSA is not just about weapons it also includes economic activities like trading oil or interaction with state entities as well.

 

[randomradio]

Semi confidential ones may be for getting around Caatsa involving high tech ones.

I doubt we signed for any aircraft s.
We were also left in lambo similarly in many deals like additional Phalcon.. Etc.

Caatsa is the reason maybe we aren't buying many weapons.

CAATSA isn't stopping us. We are buying whatever we think is useful from Russia. Everything else is coming in from the West and local markets.

Also, at this time, we are in between big ticket deals so Russia has fewer options for us when it comes to smaller stuff. The only long term big ticket viable deal available to Russia this decade is the P-75I, which they still have to compete in. Everything else is either Western-focused or Indian, MRFA, FICV/FRCV etc, where they have little to no chance of winning.

We can keep our defence relationship going elsewhere using older deals though. S-400/500, Su-57 won't really fall under the ambit of CAATSA. If the US allows the S-400, they are not gonna stop the S-500 either, and the upgrade is a natural progression for us. Su-57 predates CAATSA by a decade. More T-90s will happen, we have space for 400+ more. There's Brahmos obviously, there's nothing CAATSA can do here. And so on.

Where CAATSA can be put to the test is with more exotic technologies. The Russians can offer the Mig-41 and PAK DA. Both technologies are currently unreachable for us. AUKUS could give us access to the Yasen class as well, to purchase, not just lease. All three technologies will put our relations with America to the test since they can offer competing products.

 

[randomradio]

QUAD is nonsense, it is simply a white boys gang. Nothing will come out of it. If we look at US actions, it is not helping India much but more of increasing the distrust between India & china. India gets to buy military hardware as a business transaction but in other areas like trade, commerce, technology or multilateral forum like UN there's literally less or nothing much to boast abt. US still keeps hyphenating India with pakistan.

QUAD is important. But India is too small of a player to play the game. Significant economic benefits are yet to come, I hope they do over this decade though, a lot of it is our own fault since we cannot reform or build infrastructure as quickly as we need to. But it's not a good idea to dismiss QUAD. These things take a decade at least for the benefits to become visible.

But QUAD is not a military alliance, and they need to keep it that way. We can't afford to get suckered into a war over Taiwan.

 

[Sathya]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1468072078054100994