T-90 Bhishma / T-72 Ajeya of Indian Army : News and Discussions

[Gautam]

HAPP coming up with new project

SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT
TIRUCHI, MARCH 18, 2020 21:32 IST

The Heavy Alloy Penetrator Project (HAPP), a defence establishment here, is poised to start a new FSAPDS (Fin Stabilised Armour Piercing Discarding Sabot) ammunition hardware project code-named ‘mango’.

The infrastructure for the new project is being created on the premises of HAPP that has so far manufactured ammunition hardware 120mm FSAPDS for Arjun tank among other products. Currently, the 125mm FSAPDS meant for firing with Depth of Penetration of 515 to 550 mm through T-72A and T-90S Bhishma tank barrels is undergoing trials. The product was developed through in-house Research and Development activities, Yadvendra Somra, General Manager, HAPP, told media persons on the sidelines of the photo exhibition conducted on Wednesday as part of Ordnance Factories' Day celebration.

As for the FSAPDS ‘mango’ project, the new ammunition hardware with additional lethal features will be manufactured from the next financial year, Mr. Somra said.

A new indent has been placed by the Indian Navy for manufacture of 800 units of RGB (Rocket Guided Bomb) 60 anti-submarine rockets per year. The RGB 60 with extended range was also developed in-house in collaboration with the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) laboratory at Pune. The production will commence in four months, Mr. Somra said.

The exhibition, organised as a low-key affair in view of the COVID 19 scare, was designed to encourage students to pursue career in armed forces, Additional General Manager S.A.N. Murthy said. The exhibition served as an opportunity for people in the surroundings to know about the products manufactured in the establishment, Mr. Murthy said.

HAPP coming up with new project

 

[Ankit Kumar]

I had put a question on Trishul regarding if the T72 M/M1 now undergoing upgrade are receiving the DRDO ERA MK2?

To this he replied yes.
1000 more T72M/M1 are to undergo upgrade. And these tanks will have DRDO ERA MK2, 1000hp engine, TIFCS digital hunter-killer fire-control systems & new-generation optronic sights.

The only thing i wish was included was atleast integration of passive defence suite and a newer gun so as to enable it to fire newer ammo.

With that our 1000 Combat Improved Ajeya would have more or less deciminated the Pakistani armour.

 

[Ankit Kumar]

I had put a question on Trishul regarding if the T72 M/M1 now undergoing upgrade are receiving the DRDO ERA MK2?

To this he replied yes.
1000 more T72M/M1 are to undergo upgrade. And these tanks will have DRDO ERA MK2, 1000hp engine, TIFCS digital hunter-killer fire-control systems & new-generation optronic sights.

The only thing i wish was included was atleast integration of passive defence suite and a newer gun so as to enable it to fire newer ammo.

With that our 1000 Combat Improved Ajeya would have more or less deciminated the Pakistani armour.

Earlier it was said that the 1000hp engine will be the one used on PT91 upgrade. But having localised the production of V92S2 , it might go inside the tank. Apart from these things, the modern navigation system and new radio communication system along with NBC protection will also be added.
With the T90MS, V92S2F , a more powerful version will come.

Hopefully we atleast standardise 2A46M5 gun across our T72CIA and T90 fleet.

 

[Aniruddha]

Earlier it was said that the 1000hp engine will be the one used on PT91 upgrade. But having localised the production of V92S2 , it might go inside the tank. Apart from these things, the modern navigation system and new radio communication system along with NBC protection will also be added.
With the T90MS, V92S2F , a more powerful version will come.

Hopefully we atleast standardise 2A46M5 gun across our T72CIA and T90 fleet.

Russians have not given us ToT for 2A46 smoothbore gun, forget about getting ToT for 2A46M5 gun. We need an indigenous alternative to improve firepower of our T-72 and T-90 tanks. Importing or license manufacturing 2A46M5 in India without ToT would be an expensive process and we will achieve nothing from it.
DRDO should rope in pvt players like Bharat Forge to develop a smoothbore gun given Bharat Forge is world leader in forging.
What is the status of ERA Mk2 upgrade on T-72. I have not seen any other pic other than this one.

 

[randomradio]

Hopefully we atleast standardise 2A46M5 gun across our T72CIA and T90 fleet.

I'm hoping for the same.

Russians have not given us ToT for 2A46 smoothbore gun, forget about getting ToT for 2A46M5 gun. We need an indigenous alternative to improve firepower of our T-72 and T-90 tanks. Importing or license manufacturing 2A46M5 in India without ToT would be an expensive process and we will achieve nothing from it.
DRDO should rope in pvt players like Bharat Forge to develop a smoothbore gun given Bharat Forge is world leader in forging.
What is the status of ERA Mk2 upgrade on T-72. I have not seen any other pic other than this one.View attachment 14979

We don't need any ToT for the guns. And we have replaced the barrel with an indigenous one.

 

[Ankit Kumar]

What is the status of ERA Mk2 upgrade on T-72. I have not seen any other pic other than this one.View attachment 14979

That's why i asked the question on Trishul blog, to which he replied that yes now the 1000 T72 M/m1 which will undergo upgrade will receive this.

 

[The Tashkent files]

I'm hoping for the same.



We don't need any ToT for the guns. And we have replaced the barrel with an indigenous one.

Is indigenous gun as capable as 2A46M smooth bore gun??

 

[randomradio]

Is indigenous gun as capable as 2A46M smooth bore gun??

We have an indigenous barrel for the T-90, not an indigenous gun. The barrel requires constant replacement after every few hundred shots, so it's important to produce it on our own, but the gun functions for more than a decade, we simply import it from Russia.

Only Arjun has an indigenous gun, and it's as powerful as the T-90's gun. Plus it doesn't have shell size limitations, which is a big advantage. But because the gun is riflebore, it cannot use smoothbore ammo, so the actual firepower is still quite weak. Newer and bigger shells have to be made to make use of the Arjun gun's advantage, which are coming.

 

[The Tashkent files]

We have an indigenous barrel for the T-90, not an indigenous gun. The barrel requires constant replacement after every few hundred shots, so it's important to produce it on our own, but the gun functions for more than a decade, we simply import it from Russia.

Only Arjun has an indigenous gun, and it's as powerful as the T-90's gun. Plus it doesn't have shell size limitations, which is a big advantage. But because the gun is riflebore, it cannot use smoothbore ammo, so the actual firepower is still quite weak. Newer and bigger shells have to be made to make use of the Arjun gun's advantage, which are coming.

OK, thanks for response.
One more query
Is indigenous barrel for T 90 tanks which used in Indian T 90 tanks comparable to 2A46M barrel used in Russian T 90 tanks??

 

[randomradio]

OK, thanks for response.
One more query
Is indigenous barrel for T 90 tanks which used in Indian T 90 tanks comparable to 2A46M barrel used in Russian T 90 tanks??

The indigenous barrel is superior to the Russian supplied barrel. I don't know by how much, but the EFC (number of shells a barrel can shoot before it becomes useless) is supposed to be many times higher. Even the indigenous T-72 barrel had 2.5 to 3 times the EFC as that of a Russian barrrel. We simply use more expensive materials and better autofrettaging techniques.

 

[randomradio]

New media reports have started claiming the new T-90M Proryv-3 carries the T-14's gun and FCS, unlike previous reports which said it's only the Russian version of the T-90MS. This would give the T-90M a massive firepower advantage over the T-90S and MS.

 

[Ankit Kumar]

New media reports have started claiming the new T-90M Proryv-3 carries the T-14's gun and FCS, unlike previous reports which said it's only the Russian version of the T-90MS. This would give the T-90M a massive firepower advantage over the T-90S and MS.

I don't think the Russians will give us access to that without a sale of 300-400 T14s

We should either get the 2A45M5 and make it standard across our T72/90 fleet, or go the western way. Invest, get help or buy a 120mm smoothbore from the west and make that a standard across our fleet.

 

[Tatvamasi]

4 facts about Russia’s new T-90M Proryv-3 tank

mid-February Russia’s Uralvagonzavod corporation (the world’s largest battle tank manufacturer) released a new version of the Soviet-Russian T-90 battle tank – the T-90M Proryv-3.

It’s estimated that around 2,000 T-90s are currently being used by various armies across the globe and Uralvagonzavod’s upgrade means the tank, first produced at the end of the 20th century, can now compete with the most advanced models in the world. Here’s what we know about the new T-90M Proryv-3.

1) Weaponry from the Armata

The turret of the T-90M Proryv-3 uses a gun borrowed from the T-14 Armata – the 2A82-1M. It has a remote-controlled large-caliber machine-gun firing 12.7 mm Kord-MT rounds.

By harnessing modern technology the designers have boosted the tank’s accuracy of fire by 25 to 30 percent and its barrel life to 900 rounds.

2) New specially designed shells

In addition to the standard munition package, the T-90M has also been equipped with three types of tailored ammunition.

The first is the Vacuum-1 armor-piercing discarding sabot round with a depleted-uranium core. The designers say that in flight the projectile reaches a velocity of 1,980 mps and can rip through a meter of tank armor.

The second is the Telnik high-explosive fragmentation warhead, which can be detonated remotely by the tank crew.

And, thirdly, there’s the Sprinter guided missile, the trajectory of which can be adjusted in flight.

3) Modern armor

The T-90M’s body is covered with a modern modular reactive armor kit – the Relikt – which eliminates enemy projectiles a meter from the tank. Protection for the lower part of the turret and the rear of the body is provided by slat armor, and the firing compartment has been reinforced with an anti-shrapnel cover.

According to the manufacturers, the tank’s armor will ensure the vehicle and crew are protected from a strike by a tank round from any direction.

At the same time, the tank’s radar visibility has been considerably reduced. Put simply, the tank’s signature on the thermal imagers of targeting systems of 21st century tanks is almost nil.

4) A new ‘heart’

One of Uralvagonzavod’s main objectives was to increase the tank's mobility on the battlefield. The T-90M has been given a new 1,130 hp diesel engine and an automatic transmission gearbox. Now the 50-ton battle machine can travel at 70 kph, a

 

[randomradio]

I don't think the Russians will give us access to that without a sale of 300-400 T14s

Whatever they put up for export, they will sell to us.

We should either get the 2A45M5 and make it standard across our T72/90 fleet,

Naturally the most realistic option.

[/quote]or go the western way. Invest, get help or buy a 120mm smoothbore from the west and make that a standard across our fleet.[/QUOTE]

This won't work out. Too many IP issues between all stakeholders. IA won't choose a headache over something that already works. It's either the 2A46M-5 or 2A82-1M.

 

[Chain Smoker]

New ammo is being developed for t90/72 with a DOP of 600-800 mm at 2km.

 

[randomradio]

New ammo is being developed for t90/72 with a DOP of 600-800 mm at 2km.
View attachment 15125View attachment 15126View attachment 15127View attachment 15128

Harder than designing an engine if the requirement is to fire the shell from the existing carousel.

DoP is highly dependent on length of the penetrator. It's possible they will likely need some new exotic material instead of tungsten or even DU.

 

[Ankit Kumar]

Harder than designing an engine if the requirement is to fire the shell from the existing carousel.

DoP is highly dependent on length of the penetrator. It's possible they will likely need some new exotic material instead of tungsten or even DU.

First deliveries of T90M-Model 2017 and Terminator vehicles were made to Russian Troops on 3rd April.

The gun is still an improved 2A46M variant only. The 12.7mm has been made a RWS and new ERA is there. As of now its not having the T14 armament.

 

[randomradio]

First deliveries of T90M-Model 2017 and Terminator vehicles were made to Russian Troops on 3rd April.

The gun is still an improved 2A46M variant only. The 12.7mm has been made a RWS and new ERA is there. As of now its not having the T14 armament.

In 2017, they started state trials I suppose, it wasn't induction.

This is now the latest stuff going around.

Advanced T-90M Tank Deliveries to Russian Army Expected Later This Year
The key difference between the T-90M and previous models is the newly-designed turret module, which features multi-layer armour, and the 125A 2A82-1M cannon that is also used by the new generation Armata tank.

The Twitter link to Avangard still puts a question mark on the gun, but at least the FCS, ERA and APS are confirmed.

 

[Aniruddha]

New ammo is being developed for t90/72 with a DOP of 600-800 mm at 2km.
View attachment 15125View attachment 15126View attachment 15127View attachment 15128

I highly doubt a APFSDS with a penetration capability of 600-800mm RHA at 2km would be made which is compatible with the existing 2A46M smoothbore gun and the existing autoloader system.
Penetration is directly dependent on the length of the APFSDS round and the 2A46M cannot accommodate rounds bigger than the Mango round.
Either we will have to use better materials like DU to achieve better penetration or we would require a new gun and autoloader on the exisiting T-72,T-90 fleet.

 

[Soldierstephen]

I had put a question on Trishul regarding if the T72 M/M1 now undergoing upgrade are receiving the DRDO ERA MK2?

To this he replied yes.
1000 more T72M/M1 are to undergo upgrade. And these tanks will have DRDO ERA MK2, 1000hp engine, TIFCS digital hunter-killer fire-control systems & new-generation optronic sights.

The only thing i wish was included was atleast integration of passive defence suite and a newer gun so as to enable it to fire newer ammo.

With that our 1000 Combat Improved Ajeya would have more or less deciminated the Pakistani armour.

I am not sure but why they don't think before presenting any upgrade plan for any platform. An upgrade of a such a critical and huge platform must be done holistically in one go. And no doubt that users behave like dumb and lately they ask GOI to procure more outdated T-90S instead of T-90MS. Seems everybody is corrupt.