Tejas Mk2 (Medium Weight Fighter) - News and discussions

[Rajput Lion]

Lol! Really, Not Even J-20 with new Engines.

It will take them plenty of time to become combat ready and fully operational with WS-15. Indian Rafale is a mature product. And over the Himalayas, Rafale will be able to play hide and seek with J-20 and shall defeat it too.

Even with these new missiles, tejas MK1A performance is roughly comparable to JF17block3,

No just no. Stop your Chinese propaganda. JF-17 is no match to Tejas MK1A. Acceleration, turn rates, wing loading, use of composites, lower RCS, better weapons and most importantly much superior engine. Tejas MK1A is just going to be ahead of any JF-17, period.

Rafale is a bad discussion matter, at least I and most Chinese think Rafale is a higher thrust J10C,As for Rafale's proud ECM capabilities, I don't think it's necessary to cram too much ECM equipment into a front-line fighter with the J16D and Y9G

Rafale will eat all your fighters for lunch. Only challenge is J-20 with WS-15. But as @vstol Jockey sir confirmed in the other thread sometime back that Rafale is good enough to defeat J-20 in a 1 vs 1 fight. Only problem for IAF is that we've only 36 of them. We need more Rafale to dominate PLAAF, period.

 

[LX1111]

JF-17 is a modernised J-7. LCA Mk1/A is in the same category as Eurocanards, like the Gripen. Its airframe specifications are a generation ahead, even more so than Gripen too.

The JF 17 originated in the Super 7 program, but is not related to the MiG 21。In terms of design, the JF 17 uses a distinct large strake-wing design, which is a distinct fourth-generation fighter design,
Tejas, by contrast, lags far behind, with the simple tailless delta wing being phased out in the 1970s，Simply put, tejas has the smallest aspect ratio of any aircraft, and the induced drag is inversely proportional to the aspect ratio，This causes the tejas lift-drag ratio to be too low,Tejas Mk 2 uses canard wings also to increase lift

 

[LX1111]

It will take them plenty of time to become combat ready and fully operational with WS-15. Indian Rafale is a mature product. And over the Himalayas, Rafale will be able to play hide and seek with J-20 and shall defeat it too

I'm happy for your confidence, but I'm curious, how does a non-stealth fighter play hide-and-seek?

No just no. Stop your Chinese propaganda. JF-17 is no match to Tejas MK1A. Acceleration, turn rates, wing loading, use of composites, lower RCS, better weapons and most importantly much superior engine. Tejas MK1A is just going to be ahead of any JF-17, period.

As I've said, I don't know the exact numbers for either, but by design, JF 17 is clearly ahead

 

[RASALGHUL]

And over the Himalayas, Rafale will be able to play hide and seek with J-20 and shall defeat it too.

You are way too optimistic!

 

[LX1111]

Rafale will eat all your fighters for lunch. Only challenge is J-20 with WS-15. But as @vstol Jockey sir confirmed in the other thread sometime back that Rafale is good enough to defeat J-20 in a 1 vs 1 fight. Only problem for IAF is that we've only 36 of them. We need more Rafale to dominate PLAAF, period

From 2020, most of the Indians I see, all think Rafale can easily beat J 20, you are not the first, will not be the last

 

[Rajput Lion]

I'm happy for your confidence, but I'm curious, how does a non-stealth fighter play hide-and-seek?

Smaller size, using mountains and SPECTRA.

As I've said, I don't know the exact numbers for either, but by design, JF 17 is clearly ahead

Not at all.

From 2020, most of the Indians I see, all think Rafale can easily beat J 20, you are not the first, will not be the last

Easily beat other PLAAF fighters. But it 'should' defeat J-20 too, even if the fight is lot more intense/tough.

You are way too optimistic!

Don't underestimate Rafale.

 

[Rajput Lion]

The JF 17 originated in the Super 7 program, but is not related to the MiG 21。In terms of design, the JF 17 uses a distinct large strake-wing design, which is a distinct fourth-generation fighter design,
Tejas, by contrast, lags far behind, with the simple tailless delta wing being phased out in the 1970s，Simply put, tejas has the smallest aspect ratio of any aircraft, and the induced drag is inversely proportional to the aspect ratio，This causes the tejas lift-drag ratio to be too low,Tejas Mk 2 uses canard wings also to increase lift

Tejas Mk2 is our J-10 counter. MK1A is superior to JF-17 in every which way.

 

[LX1111]

Smaller size, using mountains and SPECTRA.

I know that Rafale have become your religion, and I am not going to argue with you. Let me explain to you the dangers of your tactics
1*First, relying on its high superiority, China has set up a series of plateau radar stations in the Himalayas. These types are meter-wave anti-stealth AESA radars,In other words, the whole of Northern India, the air situation China can know,And the Rafle take off from the plain thanfell under Chinese surveillance from the start
2*China have lot of AWACS, like the KJ 500, KJ 2000, they can greatly fill the radar blind spots caused by high mountains,
3* China is equipped with a large number of independent air defense systems, such as HQ 17 and 09 anti-aircraft artillery。 the could be deployed on the Rafale's possible attack route， We have publicly demonstrated many times the use of AWACS to direct these independent air defense systems

 

[Tatvamasi]

You are way too optimistic!

Thats his middle name. Vaccines are yet to be developed for this.

I know that Rafale have become your religion, and I am not going to argue with you. Let me explain to you the dangers of your tactics
1*First, relying on its high superiority, China has set up a series of plateau radar stations in the Himalayas. These types are meter-wave anti-stealth AESA radars,In other words, the whole of Northern India, the air situation China can know,And the Rafle take off from the plain thanfell under Chinese surveillance from the start

So this super dupper radar can go through mountains ? Is this some communist-socialist invention?

 

[Tatvamasi]

From 2020, most of the Indians I see, all think Rafale can easily beat J 20, you are not the first, will not be the last

Yeah its too good that the party's airforce keep buying old jet from putin.

 

[LX1111]

So this super dupper radar can go through mountains ? Is this some communist-socialist invention?

,It is easy to look at the Indian plain from the top of the Himalayas. After all, the height of the southern foothills of the Himalayas is rapidly decreasing

Yeah its too good that the party's airforce keep buying old jet from putin.

I'm afraid not as old as those French retired Mirage 2000 bought in India

 

[LX1111]

So this super dupper radar can go through mountains ? Is this some communist-socialist invention?

 

[Tatvamasi]

It is easy to look at the Indian plain from the top of the Himalayas. After all, the height of the southern foothills of the Himalayas is rapidly decreasing

View attachment 27736

Please educate us with actual maps.

AFAIK, Indian and nepal holds most of the highest peaks across the border.

Do tell more. Especially all thesse peaks where you have a clear view across. Meaning its shouldnt have any disruption of other mountains in front of it.

I'm afraid not as old as those French retired Mirage 2000 bought in India

IAF purchased two seater trainer mirages, there were unusual number of trainer crashes. Thus its just attrition replacements.

 

[Rajput Lion]

I know that Rafale have become your religion, and I am not going to argue with you.

Nope. I'm just stating the obvious. PLAAF should not underestimate Rafale flown by IAF, otherwise your pilots are up for a nasty surprise.

Let me explain to you the dangers of your tactics
1*First, relying on its high superiority, China has set up a series of plateau radar stations in the Himalayas. These types are meter-wave anti-stealth AESA radars,In other words, the whole of Northern India, the air situation China can know,And the Rafle take off from the plain thanfell under Chinese surveillance from the start
2*China have lot of AWACS, like the KJ 500, KJ 2000, they can greatly fill the radar blind spots caused by high mountains,
3* China is equipped with a large number of independent air defense systems, such as HQ 17 and 09 anti-aircraft artillery。 the could be deployed on the Rafale's possible attack route， We have publicly demonstrated many times the use of AWACS to direct these independent air defense systems

Everything you wrote is good enough to stop large planes like MKI to enter Tibet. But all these above won't stop Rafale. Remember, Rafale was dssigned to penetrate Soviet/Russian IADS which is by far the most dense and dangerous in the world.

In this situation, the topography is in our favour and Rafale would do heavy damage to your air defence sites, surveillance radars, A&EWS and other high value assets.

Chinese may try but Rafale with Scalp EG is literally unstoppable for them. They are going to get wrecked. That's why we need more Rafales, period. Rafale is a game-changer for us.

 

[randomradio]

The JF 17 originated in the Super 7 program, but is not related to the MiG 21。In terms of design, the JF 17 uses a distinct large strake-wing design, which is a distinct fourth-generation fighter design,
Tejas, by contrast, lags far behind, with the simple tailless delta wing being phased out in the 1970s，Simply put, tejas has the smallest aspect ratio of any aircraft, and the induced drag is inversely proportional to the aspect ratio，This causes the tejas lift-drag ratio to be too low,Tejas Mk 2 uses canard wings also to increase lift

The JF-17 uses the F-7's fuselage.

A canard design was studied for LCA and abandoned because the current design met the IAF's objectives. The design may be simple, but it flies like the M2000, as per IAF pilots. It's thanks to the advanced FBW. The Americans also said the same, when they tested it on an F-16.

 

[LX1111]

Please educate us with actual maps.

AFAIK, Indian and nepal holds most of the highest peaks across the border.

Do tell more. Especially all thesse peaks where you have a clear view across. Meaning its shouldnt have any disruption of other mountains in front of it

Unfortunately, most of it is in Chinese hands, India occupies most of the lower peaks on the southern slopes, but the ridgelines are still in Chinese hands,

IAF purchased two seater trainer mirages, there were unusual number of trainer crashes. Thus its just attrition replacements

India bought two squadrons, not two, after all, the only major air power that still has the outdated Mirage 2000 as its main force is India, while France discontinued the Mirage, India had to buy some retired and scrap fighters,

Everything you wrote is good enough to stop large planes like MKI to enter Tibet. But all these above won't stop Rafale. Remember, Rafale was dssigned to penetrate Soviet/Russian IADS which is by far the most dense and dangerous in the world.

In this situation, the topography is in our favour and Rafale would do heavy damage to your air defence sites, surveillance radar and other high value assets.

Chinese may try but Rafale with Scalp EG is literally unstoppable for them. They are going to get wrecked. That's why we need more Rafales, period. Rafale is a game-changer for us

Just replace Rafale with F35 or J20. After all, this is typical 5th generation penetration combat

 

[Tatvamasi]

Unfortunately, most of it is in Chinese hands, India occupies most of the lower peaks on the southern slopes, but the ridgelines are still in Chinese hands,

Where? You map is showing the opposite. The darker shades are highest elevation. All under Indian/Nepal control. What are you smoking? Cant you read rudimentary maps?

India bought two squadrons, not two, after all, the only major air power that still has the outdated Mirage 2000 as its main force is India, while France discontinued the Mirage, India had to buy some retired and scrap fighters,

May be you can confusing pakstan with us!.

We did not purchase no new squadrons of mirages.

This is scrap

 

[randomradio]

I know that Rafale have become your religion, and I am not going to argue with you. Let me explain to you the dangers of your tactics
1*First, relying on its high superiority, China has set up a series of plateau radar stations in the Himalayas. These types are meter-wave anti-stealth AESA radars,In other words, the whole of Northern India, the air situation China can know,And the Rafle take off from the plain thanfell under Chinese surveillance from the start
2*China have lot of AWACS, like the KJ 500, KJ 2000, they can greatly fill the radar blind spots caused by high mountains,
3* China is equipped with a large number of independent air defense systems, such as HQ 17 and 09 anti-aircraft artillery。 the could be deployed on the Rafale's possible attack route， We have publicly demonstrated many times the use of AWACS to direct these independent air defense systems

1. The opposite. Tibet is 4000m up, radars can't see anything below that. And if you position radars over mountains to look down, they are easily defeated. India has the radar advantage because all our plains radars are working in look-up mode. Of course, they can't see beyond horizon, but it's compensated by AWACS.

2. AWACS can't see beyond horizon, and the horizon in this case is really, really high. This is the IAF's advantage.

3. True. PLA has a lot of SAMs, but it faces the same issue with horizon.

I'm afraid that when it comes to surveillance, it's completely to the IAF's advantage. PLA has to compensate for that via a satellite based surveillance system, which we know does not yet exist. All 3 points you made are disadvantages to China.

Ingress is also to the IAF's advantage because they can use valleys to fly through, operating below the radar horizon of Chinese radars. Otoh, while China can do the same, any Chinese attack will become visible as soon as the Himalayas are crossed.

Rafale doesn't have any special advantage when using the terrain, any aircraft can use terrain. The advantage of Rafale is it can stay hidden a lot longer than other 4th gen designs because of SPECTRA and it has some additional safety features that makes low altitude flying safe and reliable.

The Rafale cannot fight the J-20 head-on, but it's been designed to avoid everything in its path while conducting a bombing mission. The French have a history of accomplishing strike missions without being detected in exercises. Due to a strategic requirement that requires the French forces to fight the Soviet Union alone, without NATO assistance, they have developed capabilities others have not to compensate for their lack of numbers. It's also why their weapons are unique, like the MICA and Hammer, even ASMP.

 

[Tatvamasi]

1. The opposite. Tibet is 4000m up, radars can't see anything below that. And if you position radars over mountains to look down, they are easily defeated. India has the radar advantage because all our plains radars are working in look-up mode. Of course, they can't see beyond horizon, but it's compensated by AWACS.

2. AWACS can't see beyond horizon, and the horizon in this case is really, really high. This is the IAF's advantage.

3. True. PLA has a lot of SAMs, but it faces the same issue with horizon.

You forgot the payload advantage.

 

[Rajput Lion]

India bought two squadrons, not two, after all, the only major air power that still has the outdated Mirage 2000 as its main force is India, while France discontinued the Mirage, India had to buy some retired and scrap fighters,

Wrong info.

Just replace Rafale with F35 or J20. After all, this is typical 5th generation penetration combat

F-35 isn't an ASF so it can't fight J-20 head-on. Rafale has got very good kinematics along with superior EW. It has also lots of other tricks in its bag. Rafale flown by IAF pilots would surprise PLAAF.

I just hope that MICA-NG is fast-tracked. Our Rafale have now got long range IRST, so even J-20 is going to get detected above 100kms. Mica-NG IR with dual-pulse rocket motor would be the perfect stealth killer and it will do that ever so silently err...stealthily