Indian Navy to get deadly MH-60R anti-submarine helicopters soon! Deal expected to be finalised on Wednesday
By: Huma Siddiqui | New Delhi | Published: December 17, 2019 5:40:33 PM
These helicopters will help in countering China in the Indian Ocean region are going to replace the Sea King Mk 42B/C and Ka-28 helicopters currently in service.
Both sides will also talk about the modalities to be made to the COMCASA agreement which was inked last year before it becomes operational. (Video screengrab)
After waiting for almost a decade for anti-submarine hunter helicopters, at the 2+2 Indo-US Ministerial Dialogue announcement related to the sale of 24 Lockheed Martin’s MH-60R helicopter for the Indian Navy is expected. These helicopters will help in countering China in the Indian Ocean region are going to replace the Sea King Mk 42B/C and Ka-28 helicopters currently in service.
The two sides are also expected to finally sign the Industrial Security Annex (ISA)
Financial Express Online was the first to break the news of the US State Department’s seal of approval for the sale of $ 2 billion MH-60R Multi-Mission helicopters for the Indian Navy through the Foreign Military Sale (FMS).
According to sources, “Announcement related to the anti-submarine helicopters for the Indian Navy is expected and the ISA will be signed.”
As has been first reported by the Financial Express Online earlier, once this agreement is inked it will allow the US companies to transfer critical defence technology to India.
Both sides are also working on the Defense Technology and Trade Initiative (DTTI) -Standard Operating Procedure (SOP) which will help both sides to identify and develop cooperative projects. Set up in 2012, DTTI is an initiative which is for the co-production and co-development of military systems. However, no project to date has been done under this.
The two sides are going to talk about free and open Indo-Pacific region which is already going strong.
During the bilateral discussions between the defence minister Rajnath Singh and US Defence Secretary Mark Esper, besides security and fight against terrorism, and joint and multilateral engagements, both sides will talk about the defence deals in the pipeline. Recently the Trump administration has given approval for thirteen MK 45 5 inch/62 calibre (MOD 4) naval guns for the Indian Navy and also for 3,500 D349 Projectile, 5”/54 MK 92 MOD 1 ammunition. These guns are for the P15A and P17A ships.
Both sides will also talk about the modalities to be made to the COMCASA agreement which was inked last year before it becomes operational.
Read the whole article here : Indian Navy to get deadly MH-60R anti-submarine helicopters soon! Deal expected to be finalised on Wednesday
By: Huma Siddiqui | New Delhi | Published: December 17, 2019 5:40:33 PM
These helicopters will help in countering China in the Indian Ocean region are going to replace the Sea King Mk 42B/C and Ka-28 helicopters currently in service.
Both sides will also talk about the modalities to be made to the COMCASA agreement which was inked last year before it becomes operational. (Video screengrab)
After waiting for almost a decade for anti-submarine hunter helicopters, at the 2+2 Indo-US Ministerial Dialogue announcement related to the sale of 24 Lockheed Martin’s MH-60R helicopter for the Indian Navy is expected. These helicopters will help in countering China in the Indian Ocean region are going to replace the Sea King Mk 42B/C and Ka-28 helicopters currently in service.
The two sides are also expected to finally sign the Industrial Security Annex (ISA)
Financial Express Online was the first to break the news of the US State Department’s seal of approval for the sale of $ 2 billion MH-60R Multi-Mission helicopters for the Indian Navy through the Foreign Military Sale (FMS).
According to sources, “Announcement related to the anti-submarine helicopters for the Indian Navy is expected and the ISA will be signed.”
As has been first reported by the Financial Express Online earlier, once this agreement is inked it will allow the US companies to transfer critical defence technology to India.
Both sides are also working on the Defense Technology and Trade Initiative (DTTI) -Standard Operating Procedure (SOP) which will help both sides to identify and develop cooperative projects. Set up in 2012, DTTI is an initiative which is for the co-production and co-development of military systems. However, no project to date has been done under this.
The two sides are going to talk about free and open Indo-Pacific region which is already going strong.
During the bilateral discussions between the defence minister Rajnath Singh and US Defence Secretary Mark Esper, besides security and fight against terrorism, and joint and multilateral engagements, both sides will talk about the defence deals in the pipeline. Recently the Trump administration has given approval for thirteen MK 45 5 inch/62 calibre (MOD 4) naval guns for the Indian Navy and also for 3,500 D349 Projectile, 5”/54 MK 92 MOD 1 ammunition. These guns are for the P15A and P17A ships.
Both sides will also talk about the modalities to be made to the COMCASA agreement which was inked last year before it becomes operational.
Read the whole article here : Indian Navy to get deadly MH-60R anti-submarine helicopters soon! Deal expected to be finalised on Wednesday
Navy choppers for HAL unlikely, jet order on the cards
The naval utility helicopter project, being processed under the strategic partnership model, is now set to go to the next stage, with the navy shortlisting four domestic companies that would be eligible to tie up with three shortlisted foreign vendors for a competition to manufacture 111 choppers in India.
NEW DELHI: The defence ministry is likely to remove Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) from Rs 21,000-crore project to manufacture naval helicopters that had been reserved for the private sector. But the government-owned entity is set to get a mega order to produce 83 new Light Combat Aircraft in the coming weeks, taking its order book beyond Rs 1lakh crore.
The naval utility helicopter project, being processed under the strategic partnership model, is now set to go to the next stage, with the navy shortlisting four domestic companies that would be eligible to tie up with three shortlisted foreign vendors for a competition to manufacture 111 choppers in India.
As reported by ET, HAL had made a last-ditch effort to enter the competition by writing to the defence ministry last month. The Defence PSU’s bid had earlier been rejected as the tender documents had clearly mentioned that only private sector companies are eligible.
Tata, Mahindra, Adani and Bharat Forge have been identified as companies that meet the financial and technical criteria while foreign vendors Airbus, Sikorsky and Kamov have been shortlisted as potential technology partners. Once the project is given a go ahead — likely by next week — the Navy will go to the next stage of tendering that will include flight trials and an eventual evaluation of commercial bids.
However, HAL’s hands are set to be full for the next five years, with the government likely to sign a deal for 83 of the LCA Mk 1 fighter jets that is expected to be in the range of Rs 40,000 crore.
The signing of the deal could take place at the upcoming DefExpo in Lucknow early next month, though sources say that first payments for the contract are likely to be made in the next financial year.
The LCA order — which has been in the works for the past two years — will swell the order books of the government owned entity to beyond Rs 1 lakh crore. According to statistics shared in Parliament, the current order book is pegged at almost Rs 60,000 crore.
The naval utility helicopter project, being processed under the strategic partnership model, is now set to go to the next stage, with the navy shortlisting four domestic companies that would be eligible to tie up with three shortlisted foreign vendors for a competition to manufacture 111 choppers in India.
NEW DELHI: The defence ministry is likely to remove Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) from Rs 21,000-crore project to manufacture naval helicopters that had been reserved for the private sector. But the government-owned entity is set to get a mega order to produce 83 new Light Combat Aircraft in the coming weeks, taking its order book beyond Rs 1lakh crore.
The naval utility helicopter project, being processed under the strategic partnership model, is now set to go to the next stage, with the navy shortlisting four domestic companies that would be eligible to tie up with three shortlisted foreign vendors for a competition to manufacture 111 choppers in India.
As reported by ET, HAL had made a last-ditch effort to enter the competition by writing to the defence ministry last month. The Defence PSU’s bid had earlier been rejected as the tender documents had clearly mentioned that only private sector companies are eligible.
Tata, Mahindra, Adani and Bharat Forge have been identified as companies that meet the financial and technical criteria while foreign vendors Airbus, Sikorsky and Kamov have been shortlisted as potential technology partners. Once the project is given a go ahead — likely by next week — the Navy will go to the next stage of tendering that will include flight trials and an eventual evaluation of commercial bids.
However, HAL’s hands are set to be full for the next five years, with the government likely to sign a deal for 83 of the LCA Mk 1 fighter jets that is expected to be in the range of Rs 40,000 crore.
The signing of the deal could take place at the upcoming DefExpo in Lucknow early next month, though sources say that first payments for the contract are likely to be made in the next financial year.
The LCA order — which has been in the works for the past two years — will swell the order books of the government owned entity to beyond Rs 1 lakh crore. According to statistics shared in Parliament, the current order book is pegged at almost Rs 60,000 crore.
Said it last year
MoD expert rejects foreign helicopter, HAL says Dhruv is suitable
By Ajai Shukla
Business Standard, 16th Jan 20
With the ministry of defence (MoD) poised to sanction on Friday a Rs 21,738 crore project to build 111 naval utility helicopters (NUH) in an Indian private sector firm, an MoD expert has suggested the project be scrapped.
The MoD and the navy want the NUH to be a foreign helicopter, built through the “strategic partner” (SP) model. This involves selecting a deep-pocketed Indian private firm as the SP, which will build the helicopters in India using technology supplied by a separately selected foreign “original equipment manufacturer (OEM).
However, former integrated defence staff chief, Vice Admiral Raman Puri (retired), who the department of defence production (DDP) has appointed as a consultant, has advised against inducting a foreign helicopter as NUH, when defence public sector unit Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) is in a position to supply a naval version of its indigenous Dhruv advanced light helicopter (ALH).
Puri has recommended the indigenous Dhruv chopper over a foreign design, citing Para 23 of Chapter II of the Defence Procurement Policy of 2016 (DPP-2016), which states: “Preference will be given to indigenous design, development and manufacture of defence equipment. Therefore, whenever the required arms, ammunition and equipment are possible to be made by Indian industry, within the time lines required by the services, the procurement will be made from Indian sources.”
On November 19, the MoD asked HAL for its comments. HAL has replied that it is “generally in agreement with the viewpoints provided by the consultant.”
Puri also pointed out that Para 23 states: “Accordingly the [MoD’s] categorisation committee, while considering categorisation under the DPP will follow a preferred order of categorisation,” in which “Buy (Indian – IDDM)” is top priority. IDDM is the acronym for “Indian Designed, Developed and Manufactured,” a criterion the Dhruv ALH meets.
HAL has pointed out to the MoD that the Dhruv ALH has been in operation with the navy and coast guard for about two decades. It notes: “ALH has proved its robustness in all operating conditions, as validated by accruing more than 260,000 flying hours and [flying] more than 280 helicopters in the services of various customers.”
The navy has opted for a foreign helicopter, to be built on the SP model, because the Dhruv ALH does not have foldable rotor blades that allow it to be parked within the cramped confines of a hangar on a warship.
But HAL’s response to the MoD states: “The design of ALH is such that role change can be achieved with minimum modifications and minimum time, which will enable the navy to use this helicopter…”
HAL wrote that, while it did not earlier possess technology for foldable blades for the Dhruv, it “initiated a project with internal funding to design and develop a blade/tail boom folding mechanism on the ALH, which will meet the stowage requirements of the NUH.”
HAL executives say foldable blades can be easily developed in 2-3 years, a period shorter than what the MoD would take to sign a global NUH contract.
HAL’s letter also notes that the tender requires the foreign OEM to transfer nine critical technologies, which include a rotor system, transmission system, hydraulics, self-sealing fuel tanks, vibration isolation system and others. “All these critical technologies are available with HAL in the case of the ALH-based NUH, as it is HAL’s own development,” says HAL’s letter, which Business Standard has reviewed.
HAL also claims that “many other critical and advanced technologies [are] available with HAL, like the avionics system, glass cockpit, composite airframe technologies etc.”
Puri’s recommendations also reflect his opinion that it would be wasteful to buy a foreign helicopter, pay for transfer of technology, and develop manufacturing capability in an Indian private sector SP when all this already exists with HAL.
He has pointed out that the SP’s new manufacturing line would have no work after building 111 NUHs for the navy. The “transfer of technology” cost paid to the OEM and the cost of setting up a new NUH production line would make a foreign NUH far more expensive than the Dhruv, which HAL already manufactures in Bengaluru.
“Since the ALH-based NUH is conceived, designed and developed by HAL, there is no necessity for any ToT and thus a substantial amount of foreign exchange… can be saved,” HAL has argued.
HAL has also pointed out that it would be able to integrate weapons and sensors to meet the navy’s requirements in the future, upgrade the platform at any stage in its life-cycle, resolve technical issues and carry out “obsolescence management”, which involves ensuring the supply of spare parts all through its service life.
Puri’s intervention and HAL’s argument will not be welcomed by private sector firms who have responded to the MoD’s NUH tender. These includeTataAdvanced Systems Ltd, Adani Defence, Mahindra Defence, Reliance Defence and the Kalyani Group. In addition HAL submitted two responses – one in its individual capacity and another in a joint venture with Russian Helicopters Ltd called Indo-Russian Helicopters Ltd (IRHL).
The foreign helicopters in the fray include two Airbus helicopters – the AS 565 Mbe (Panther) and the H145M – as well as US firm Sikorsky’s S76D and the Russian Kamov 226T. The Panther is regarded as the front runner.
Broadsword: MoD expert rejects foreign helicopter, HAL says Dhruv is suitable
@Ashwin - any true to this??
By Ajai Shukla
Business Standard, 16th Jan 20
With the ministry of defence (MoD) poised to sanction on Friday a Rs 21,738 crore project to build 111 naval utility helicopters (NUH) in an Indian private sector firm, an MoD expert has suggested the project be scrapped.
The MoD and the navy want the NUH to be a foreign helicopter, built through the “strategic partner” (SP) model. This involves selecting a deep-pocketed Indian private firm as the SP, which will build the helicopters in India using technology supplied by a separately selected foreign “original equipment manufacturer (OEM).
However, former integrated defence staff chief, Vice Admiral Raman Puri (retired), who the department of defence production (DDP) has appointed as a consultant, has advised against inducting a foreign helicopter as NUH, when defence public sector unit Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) is in a position to supply a naval version of its indigenous Dhruv advanced light helicopter (ALH).
Puri has recommended the indigenous Dhruv chopper over a foreign design, citing Para 23 of Chapter II of the Defence Procurement Policy of 2016 (DPP-2016), which states: “Preference will be given to indigenous design, development and manufacture of defence equipment. Therefore, whenever the required arms, ammunition and equipment are possible to be made by Indian industry, within the time lines required by the services, the procurement will be made from Indian sources.”
On November 19, the MoD asked HAL for its comments. HAL has replied that it is “generally in agreement with the viewpoints provided by the consultant.”
Puri also pointed out that Para 23 states: “Accordingly the [MoD’s] categorisation committee, while considering categorisation under the DPP will follow a preferred order of categorisation,” in which “Buy (Indian – IDDM)” is top priority. IDDM is the acronym for “Indian Designed, Developed and Manufactured,” a criterion the Dhruv ALH meets.
HAL has pointed out to the MoD that the Dhruv ALH has been in operation with the navy and coast guard for about two decades. It notes: “ALH has proved its robustness in all operating conditions, as validated by accruing more than 260,000 flying hours and [flying] more than 280 helicopters in the services of various customers.”
The navy has opted for a foreign helicopter, to be built on the SP model, because the Dhruv ALH does not have foldable rotor blades that allow it to be parked within the cramped confines of a hangar on a warship.
But HAL’s response to the MoD states: “The design of ALH is such that role change can be achieved with minimum modifications and minimum time, which will enable the navy to use this helicopter…”
HAL wrote that, while it did not earlier possess technology for foldable blades for the Dhruv, it “initiated a project with internal funding to design and develop a blade/tail boom folding mechanism on the ALH, which will meet the stowage requirements of the NUH.”
HAL executives say foldable blades can be easily developed in 2-3 years, a period shorter than what the MoD would take to sign a global NUH contract.
HAL’s letter also notes that the tender requires the foreign OEM to transfer nine critical technologies, which include a rotor system, transmission system, hydraulics, self-sealing fuel tanks, vibration isolation system and others. “All these critical technologies are available with HAL in the case of the ALH-based NUH, as it is HAL’s own development,” says HAL’s letter, which Business Standard has reviewed.
HAL also claims that “many other critical and advanced technologies [are] available with HAL, like the avionics system, glass cockpit, composite airframe technologies etc.”
Puri’s recommendations also reflect his opinion that it would be wasteful to buy a foreign helicopter, pay for transfer of technology, and develop manufacturing capability in an Indian private sector SP when all this already exists with HAL.
He has pointed out that the SP’s new manufacturing line would have no work after building 111 NUHs for the navy. The “transfer of technology” cost paid to the OEM and the cost of setting up a new NUH production line would make a foreign NUH far more expensive than the Dhruv, which HAL already manufactures in Bengaluru.
“Since the ALH-based NUH is conceived, designed and developed by HAL, there is no necessity for any ToT and thus a substantial amount of foreign exchange… can be saved,” HAL has argued.
HAL has also pointed out that it would be able to integrate weapons and sensors to meet the navy’s requirements in the future, upgrade the platform at any stage in its life-cycle, resolve technical issues and carry out “obsolescence management”, which involves ensuring the supply of spare parts all through its service life.
Puri’s intervention and HAL’s argument will not be welcomed by private sector firms who have responded to the MoD’s NUH tender. These includeTataAdvanced Systems Ltd, Adani Defence, Mahindra Defence, Reliance Defence and the Kalyani Group. In addition HAL submitted two responses – one in its individual capacity and another in a joint venture with Russian Helicopters Ltd called Indo-Russian Helicopters Ltd (IRHL).
The foreign helicopters in the fray include two Airbus helicopters – the AS 565 Mbe (Panther) and the H145M – as well as US firm Sikorsky’s S76D and the Russian Kamov 226T. The Panther is regarded as the front runner.
Broadsword: MoD expert rejects foreign helicopter, HAL says Dhruv is suitable
@Ashwin - any true to this??
More drama !.
Its Ajay Shukla. he won't BS on these subjects. I hope DAC will overrule this.
Agree... It will be bad for the SP model
Plus
I do remember that HAL pull the same "we have move experience" card w.r.t the the Avro replacement
Yes, but that was HAL itself claiming, this is a recommendation directly to the ministry by a third party.
But what's wrong if the ALH conforms to the IN Specifications ? Must we proceed with the tender & sacrifice millions of precious foreign exchange just to keep up appearances? We can expend the amount pursuing more cutting edge stuff like the NMRH project where we don't have an indigenous alternative as of now.
There isn't anything wrong with going for ALH. It depends on the end goal. Here the transport aircraft tender and the SP model was to kickstart the private aerospace industry so that they can give a healthy competition to the monopoly of HAL. If they want to graduate from offset part producer to the next level of integration and whole production it has to be with the Govt support. The government previously invested heavily for capacity creation in these DPSUs by letting go of the same 'precious foreign exchange'. And it's still ongoing !.
Why shouldn't the private sector get a fighting chance?
Our naval shipbuilding is a glowing example of why we shouldn't L1 (aka market) decide on private sector winning MoD contracts. There where four shipyards a decade ago now only one left.
Private warship builders live off scraps, while the figures tell the real tale
DPSUs get 'nominated' all the time. But we can't reserve something for the private sector?
Also, Dhruv is hardly 70% indian after producing 200+ numbers. In SP model NUH has to reach 50%+ indigenization by its last phase including its supply chain. Here, unlike HAL products they do get a chance to export to the western market. So we can assume some amount of FOREX difference will return in time.
Hence I mentioned cutting edge stuff like helos with war fighting abilities. We need SPM's there.The Utility Helos are hardly cutting edge stuff. Nevertheless, what HAL has achieved thru various derivatives of the ALH is commendable.Just coz we want to reduce our dependency on DPSU's doesn't mean anything by way of capacity creation goes.
Further, Just coz the government invested in DPSU for capacity creation & is now paying thru it's nose to sustain those capacities doesn't mean it should repeat it's mistake.
I'd have appreciated you citing the fact that the combined armed forces requirements including those of the para militaries , CAPFs & other such organizations are nearing a 1000 and that a joint assessment be made by the CDS post which a realistic approximation arrived at following which an RFI & RFP released. This could not be catered to by a single vendor. But you didn't make this argument.
Because the cost of importing 100+ NMRH is astronomical compared to NUH. It will be $10+ billion if we go by the SeaHawk FMS numbers. That's why the navy prioritized NUH over it. They will probably split the NMRH into direct import for current needs and HAL design in a long time. (Similar compromise of ditching MMRCA). NUH is low hanging is and it's now. Remember NMRH was also under SP model.
By investing in the private sector they are not repeating the mistake but creating a market economy for the aerospace industry so that it will become efficient with the competition.
I did not make the size of the market argument because my larger point was on supply-side efficiency.
Where did I refer to whole sale imports of either the NUH or the NMRH? Whose posts are you reading? My point is a very simple one. If those requirements can be met in-house with an existing product with bare minimum modifications, pls don't expend valuable time , money & indulge in hair splitting but go in for an indigenous variant even if it isn't state of the art but not obsolescent either.
The SP model need not be applied across the board but in case of the helos, it can & should be followed for the NMRH.
In the event, I doubt HAL will be in a position to cater to the comprehensive requirements of all the armed forces & beyond for the utility helos. I just hope whoever is in charge takes a holistic view of the scenario & initiate the tendering process keeping that in mind. A 50:50 spilt between HAL & another JV between the pvt sector & a foreign strategic partner is what I'm looking at.
I thought this is what you meant by 'cutting edge stuff'
I also did not mention importing the whole of anything. NMRH was also under SP model.
They do not meet requirements as of now.
Again you are skipping the larger point. The need for creating an efficient aerospace ecosystem is now. We do not have money to go ahead with 100+ NMRH SP import. So NUH is what we can do now.
Didn't navy order Dhruv and found some issues like vibrations and lack of foldable blades then...
And hal made some efforts..
Any idea what happened to it?
@vstol Jockey
HAL simply doing its best to maintain a monopoly. The IN will obviously not fall for such schemes. But MoD is questionable. If the govt cares about the future of aerospace in the country, they will go ahead with supporting the private industry with NUH.
Btw, the navy wants helicopters below 3T, while ALH is 5T. That's one of the primary reasons for its rejection.
Twin engine but below 3 T?
Otherwise LUH can compete right,..
LUH already has foldable blades
I don't know any other defence journalist who has been more scorned by the military than him.
That's the problem for HAL. Their only possible contender LUH is single engine. That's why their focus is on ALH instead, which is twin.
That's true but i don't remember him getting wrong on these kinds of subjects.
Not correct.
HAL has started an internal program to add auto-folding and other naval features. I think they even reduced the All up weight to fill in the requirements.
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