The Quad (US, Japan, India, Australia Security Dialogue) : Updates and Discussions

Interview with Patricia Karvelas, ABC Radio National​

  • Transcript (E&OE)

Subjects: Professor Sean Turnell; Quad talks; Russia-China; Ukraine border situation; apology to victims of bullying and harassment; religious discrimination laws.

09 February 2022

Patricia Karvelas: US Secretary of State Antony Blinken arrives in Australia today for regional talks on the threat posed by China to the Indo-Pacific. The centrepiece of the visit will be a meeting of the Quadrilateral Security Dialogue, which will also include the foreign ministers of Japan and India. The high-level meeting follows a joint announcement by China and Russia of a no-limits friendship, which is raising fresh concerns about the potential for a new Cold War. Our own Foreign Minister Marise Payne will host the security dialogue, and she's my guest this morning. Minister, welcome.
Marise Payne: Good morning, Patricia.
Patricia Karvelas: Before we get to the Quad talks, there were reports this week that the Australian economist was about to be released from detention in Myanmar. What's your latest advice on Sean Turnell?
Marise Payne: I understand that reports which emanated from some statements by the Prime Minister of Cambodia, Prime Minister Hun Sen, have been corrected and the Prime Minister has said that it was an unintentional error. Unfortunately, this makes life extremely difficult or more difficult for Professor Turnell's family, and I certainly feel for them at the moment in the flurry of this latest media. But we understand that Professor Turnell remains in detention.
We do regard this as a case of arbitrary detention and have called for his immediate release and his return to Australia, and continue to do so. We are undertaking that high-level advocacy with Myanmar, with partners around the world and both in person and, of course, through calls and correspondence. That is a very, very strong focus of my role and of my department. And we continue to give him all possible consular support. We don't have the access we would like to his legal case because of Covid restrictions in Myanmar. But we also continue to seek that.
Patricia Karvelas: Let's move to the Quad talks. What's the top agenda item? Will it be trying to check the growing Chinese influence through the Indo-Pacific? Is that the priority for all the Quad countries – Australia, the US, India and Japan?
Marise Payne: This is a very important meeting taking place in Melbourne this week. It is our fourth meeting of Quad foreign ministers and the third in person, notwithstanding some of the challenges of Covid. And, really, as a network of liberal democracies we are committed to very practical cooperation and ensuring that all Indo-Pacific nations – large and small – are able to make their own strategic decisions and make those decisions free from coercion.
But in a practical sense, work this weekend will be around vaccine distribution in our region, on cyber and critical technology, on the challenges of countering malicious disinformation and dangerous disinformation, on counterterrorism, on maritime security, on climate change. These are the focuses which have also been prosecuted through the Quad Leaders Summit which, of course, President Biden hosted in Washington with Prime Minister Morrison and other Prime Ministers last year.
Patricia Karvelas: Minister, Secretary Blinken will be the highest level visitor to Australia by a member of the Biden administration. He'll be here talking about regional security, despite the world's attention really being on that flash point between Russia and the Ukraine. What message will that send to Beijing? Is it that the security in the Indo-Pacific is still one of the important challenges to Washington?
Marise Payne: Absolutely. I think it indicates that Secretary Blinken – and my good friend Tony Blinken is here to discuss what is a positive and ambitious agenda in support of a secure and a prosperous Indo-Pacific. And you make a very good point about the challenges that are being experienced elsewhere in the world, not least of which is the massing of Russian troops on the Ukrainian border and multiple challenges associated with Covid-19 around the world. But to be able to convene this meeting here in Australia this week is a very strong message to the region about the importance of the Indo-Pacific and the importance that we place on the openness and transparency that we think is vital in this region.
Patricia Karvelas: Minister, you mentioned earlier the kind of areas that you'll be look at in this Quad. What practical measures are being considered that you want to walk out with – you know, really practical measures to deal with some of these wicked problems that you're dealing with?
Marise Payne: Well, I think vaccine distribution is a very good example of that. And Australia, Japan, India and the United States have committed to deliver 1.3 billion doses globally of vaccines, and over 485 million of those doses have been delivered already. Part of Australia's role in that is ensuring last-mile delivery, if you like. I was in Vietnam last year in Hanoi towards the end of last year looking at the cold storage refrigeration facilities that we have provided through our programs for vaccine preservation in Vietnam, particularly in remote areas where vaccines otherwise would not be able to be provided. They are very practical demonstrations.
The work we are doing on infrastructure in the region, particularly infrastructure that is climate adapted and climate resilient, and we've made a number of announcements on that in the last number of months. And we look forward to continuing those. They are a real focus of practical outcomes from the Quad.
Patricia Karvelas: Now, I want to talk about the Russia-China alliance. Late last week Vladimir Putin and Xi Jinping met in Beijing. They issued, Minister, a joint statement declaring a no-limits partnership which would be superior to the political and military alliances of the Cold War era. Are we seeing the birth of a new and powerful anti-democratic alliance? How alarmed are you at that prospect?
Marise Payne: We've looked at that statement closely, as you would expect. And, frankly, it sets out a vision of the global order that is at odds with that of Australia and that of our allies and partners, and I'm confident that includes all of our Quad partners.
As liberal democracies, and even if not as liberal democracies but countries that want to protect their own sovereignty and protect their own freedoms, we stand for openness, for the rule of law and, as I said in response to one of your questions in relation to the Quad, the right of all countries – large and small – to pursue their own interests free of coercion. And we do see daily examples of coercion from authoritarian states that as a strong liberal democracy Australia is not prepared to tolerate or condone.
Patricia Karvelas: And, Minister, the two leaders have vowed to back each other over Ukraine and Taiwan. But could we really see the two armed forces fighting together, or is this more about political signalling to the rest of the world rather than any threat of joint military action?
Marise Payne: I don't want to speculate on whether the statement extends to that point. But I do want to be very clear that the vision of the global order, as I said, that it presents is completely at odds with the vision that Australia has and our allies and our partners have. The approach of authoritarian regimes – and Russia and China are the two that you have cited here but there are others, including the DPRK, which has been engaged in missile launches in breach of UN Security Council resolutions, in breach of the sanctions regime that is applied to the DPRK – they are not contributing to security. They are not contributing to stability. And this comes at a time of great difficulty for many nations in the Indo-Pacific in trying to emerge from Covid-19, in trying to recover their economies and their health security. And in that context they are actions which we totally reject.
Patricia Karvelas: Minister, French President Emanuel Macron has just met Vladimir Putin, who told him that he wouldn't escalate the crisis, but at the same time the US is saying an invasion could be just days away. What is Australia's assessment?
Marise Payne: Well, we have been very clear, and we're working closely with partners, but these matters are being fully engaged on through, as you say, President Macron, Prime Minister Johnson, I understand President Biden and Chancellor Scholz have also met in the last day. The Russian military build-up on Ukraine's border has deeply concerned Australia and our allies and partners. We have called upon Russia to take steps to de-escalate the situation, particularly to remain engaged in diplomatic, reciprocal dialogue on security concerns. And these meetings are important. They are important, and they are important engagements between the President and counterparts.
But I would say that we need to see action on the part of Russia to de-escalate the situation as well. We are very strong supporters of Ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity and a unified European and NATO response. I understand the US and Russia are continuing their discussions on the points raised by Russia in most recent meetings, and we will remain closely engaged by the US on that.
Patricia Karvelas: And, Minister, DFAT has been telling Australians in Ukraine to leave. The Prime Minister mentioned this. Have most people returned home? How many would still be in Ukraine? Do we know?
Marise Payne: Patricia, there are a number of Australians in Ukraine, some of which have been there for a very long time. They have strong family and community connections in Ukraine. And our advice has been unequivocal and clear that they should, because of the possibility of conflict and imminent conflict, they should leave Ukraine immediately. We will continue to say that and to be very clear in our advice both through the travel advice and contact that we are having with Ukrainians, and that includes email and telephone contact, regular updating of our travel advice and, of course, social media posts.
Ultimately, those Australians will make their own decisions. Many of them are dual citizens, but we do encourage them to observe that travel advice and to leave immediately while it is safe to do so if they wish to do so.
Patricia Karvelas: Now, I'm going to ask you to put your Minister for Women hat on, if I can, and talk about yesterday's apology to the victims of bullying and harassment in parliamentary offices. Former Australian of the Year Grace Tame called it a performative, last-minute band-aid electioneering stunt. How do you think other women saw the apology?
Marise Payne: As I watched the Senate President make his statement to the chamber – and I understand the Speaker Andrew Wallace was making his statement at the same time – I was pleased that this was the implementation of the first recommendation of the Jenkins Report, which was to deliver a joint statement of acknowledgement. It's also a key outcome from the first meeting of the leadership taskforce, which is a multi-party taskforce to oversee implementation of the recommendations. So, this is an important step.
I think there is wide community expectation, as there should be, that the recommendations of the Jenkins Report will be implemented. Most certainly the government is committed to implementing all 28 recommendations, and I understand from my participation in the leadership taskforce in the recent weeks that is the case across the parliament.
So this has been a very important step. There are others underway, including the introduction of legislative changes to confirm aspects of the Fair Work Act, the Age Discrimination Act and the Disability Discrimination Act apply to people who are employed under the Members of Parliament Staff Act, also recommended in the report.
So I must say that the leader of this nation, the leader in my chamber Mr Birmingham, Senator Keneally Acting Leader of the Opposition in the Senate, the leaders of the parliament making their statements and including in those statements apologies seems to me to be entirely appropriate and entirely in accord with the spirit and the word, indeed, of the Set the Standard report. So for it to be called a stunt is, of course, a matter for Ms Tame, but that is not my view.
Patricia Karvelas: Minister, will you be watching Grace Tame and Brittany Higgins as they address a packed and sold out National Press Club today?
Marise Payne: Providing that my meetings today with the Minister of Foreign Affairs of Lithuania, who is in Canberra for a visit to open an embassy in Canberra, Lithuania's first embassy here in Canberra, providing that those commitments conclude in time I do intend to be at the Press Club, yes.
Patricia Karvelas: Why is it important for you to be there?
Marise Payne: Because it is an important address. It comes at a time when we are in the process of implementing the recommendations of the Jenkins Review and taking forward some of the very, very difficult issues from 2021 in the new parliamentary year. I have acknowledged and reiterated the importance of the work that particularly Ms Higgins and Ms Tame have done, but so many other victim survivors and so many other former staff and current staff who contributed, for example, to the Jenkins review. And this – the remarks that will be made at the press club today are definitely part of that process, but just as much part of the process as, for example, the summit last year on the development of the next national plan to end violence against women and their children.
All of these are steps for Australia in addressing the scourge of family and domestic violence, of sexual assault, of sexual harassment, as is the Respect at Work report this government commissioned and is in the process of implementing. So being part of these discussions after a very long time in this building and in this role is important to me.
Patricia Karvelas: The party room, Minister, has agreed on a compromise on the religious discrimination laws, but it means transgender students can still be expelled from faith-based schools. What message does it send to these children who have some of the highest rates of self-harm in the country that their government doesn't think they deserve to be protected from discrimination at school?
Marise Payne: I don't agree with the way that you have characterised that, Patricia, but I do understand the absolute sensitivity of these issues, and they are issues that I am very conscious of for a range of reasons, both in relation to sexual orientation and gender identity. And we are very clear – but I am personally very clear – that discrimination against students on any such grounds is unacceptable. All of the –
Patricia Karvelas: So just – I don't mean to be rude, but I want to just get your view. Would you like to remove discrimination on the basis of gender that students face as well? So transgender students. Would you like to remove that discrimination?
Marise Payne: Ultimately yes, and that's why we have referred this matter to the Australian Law Reform Commission so that we can do an assessment of the unintended consequences and an analysis of the way forward. We have a very strong system of religious schools in this country. I don't want to see that undone at the same time. I am actually a product of a religious school a very long time ago. I don't want to see that undone at the same time, and I think that there are constructive steps that we are taking in terms of the addressing of this by the Law Reform Commission. But most importantly, I want to be able to ensure that we can protect all of those students.
Patricia Karvelas: So what's your message to transgender students who are clearly feeling pretty hurt hearing this debate?
Marise Payne: I don't think that the debate is particularly nuanced, to be frank. I think the debate is being held at peak volume and on social media. I'm not sure that that helps, but that is what we have to deal with. I hope that those students are able to turn to their families and to their supporters and to their schools and know that as a government we want to ensure that we can amend the legislation in the right way with the advice of the Law Reform Commission, not to unpick a key component of our education system at the same time but to ensure that those students are also protected.
So this is an iterative process, if you like. I was watching my colleague the member for Moncrieff Angie Bell on ABC 24 earlier this morning talking about the gains that can be made through the steps that the government has already been able to agree to.
Patricia Karvelas: That's right – gay students might benefit. But trans students won't.
Marise Payne: This is an iterative process, Patricia. And the next step is to have this analysis from the ALRC so that we can make sure we are able to both protect the students and manage this process through our education system. It's not less important, it's not differently important – it is equally important. But there are steps that we need to go through as a government on so many issues of such deep complexity. This is not for my part any indication of a lack of care or a lack of primacy being applied to those students. As I say, this is something with which I have had some connection in the past both on sexual orientation and on gender identity, which I do genuinely, deeply care about.
Patricia Karvelas: Thank you for your time this morning.
Marise Payne: Thank you very much.
Patricia Karvelas: Minister for Women and Foreign Affairs, Marise Payne.
[END]
 

Explained: Why India’s Defence Secretary’s Maldives visit is important​

India’s Defence Secretary Dr Ajay Kumar visited the Maldives on February 13-14, for discussions with the Maldives National Defence Force as part of the second Defence Cooperation Dialogue. The Defence Cooperation Dialogue is one of India’s policy-level frameworks that aims to strengthen long-standing and mutually beneficial bilateral defence ties. The first Defence Cooperation Dialogue was held in July 2016 during the presidency of Abdulla Yameen Abdul Gayoom and the second DCD was held in January 2019.

The location of the Maldives, at the intersection of commercial sea-lanes running through the Indian Ocean, makes it strategically important for India, particularly in the light of China’s growing aggression in the region.
Defence Secretary Dr. @drajaykumar_ias co-chaired the meeting of the 3rd India – Maldives Defence Cooperation Dialogue, today with @CDFofMNDF. Discussed joint efforts and capacity-building measures to counter trans-national crimes and enhance security in the region.@HCIMaldives pic.twitter.com/f0T28iLYMR
— A. Bharat Bhushan Babu (@SpokespersonMoD) February 14, 2022

What did this visit entail?
During the visit, Dr. Kumar called on Maldives’ Defence Minister Mariya Didi and Minister of State for Foreign Affairs Ahmed Khaleel, as well as with Chief of Defence Force of the Maldives National Defence Force (MNDF), Major General Abdulla Shamaal, and handed over the refitted ship, the CGS Huravee to the Maldives.

The Trinkat-class patrol vessel was gifted to the Maldivian Coast Guard in 2006. This vessel is used by the Maldives for coastal surveillance and for combating transnational crimes such as drug trafficking, illegal, unreported and unregulated fishing. Periodically, India undertakes refitting and repairs of ships like these at docks across the country at New Delhi’s expense. The CGS Huravee was last repaired in 2021.

A statement issued by the High Commission of India in the Maldives stated that India’s Defence Secretary also handed over 2.8 tons of medical equipment to the Maldives for use by the Senahiya Hospital run by the MNDF in Male. While the Senahiya Hospital had initially opened as a
healthcare facility for MNDF officers and their families, the healthcare facility is now open to civilians as well.

The Defence Secretary also inaugurated the Phase -I extension of the Composite Training Centre (CTC) of the MNDF located in Maafilaafushi, which was built using $1.07 million in grant assistance provided by India. This construction is being planned as an administrative centre holding accommodation barracks, a firing shed, a firing range, a health post, an obstacle belt, two recreational buildings, and power, water and sanitation facilities.

The Phase-I extensions were completed through an Indian grant. Once completed, this centre will become Maldives’ main military training facility. In 2019, Prime Minister Narendra Modi had inaugurated the CTC during a state visit to the Maldives.

What else was on the agenda?
This visit by India’s Defence Secretary primarily focused on “enhancing capacity building”, said the High Commission of India in Malé. Over the past 10 years, India has trained over 1,300 MNDF trainees and has offered 300 training vacancies between 2021-2022, including for SPG, NSG and MIO training, a note on bilateral relations published by India’s Ministry of External Affairs said. With India, the MNDF has participated in various joint military activities covering a wide range of operations, including EEZ patrols, anti-narcotic operations, sea-rider programmes, Humanitarian Assistance and Disaster Relief exercises etc.

Capacity building also includes other kinds of training offered to the Maldives. According to the bilateral note, India has also offered to depute Mobile Training Teams (MTT) based on MNDF requirements and to train MNDF personnel for UN peace- keeping operations at the Centre For United Nations Peacekeeping.

Why is this important for bilateral relations?
Since 1988, defence and security have been major areas of cooperation between India and Maldives. This cooperation extends to assisting the Maldives with defence training and equipment requirements. India provides the largest number of training opportunities for Maldivian National Defence Force (MNDF), meeting around 70 per cent of their defence training requirements. In 2016, the two countries also signed a comprehensive action plan to consolidate defence partnership, a note on bilateral relations published by India’s Ministry of External Affairs said.
 

Joint statement by the Foreign Ministers of Australia, India and Japan and the Secretary of State of the United States following the 4th Quad Foreign Ministers’ Meeting​

We, the Foreign Ministers of Australia, India and Japan and the Secretary of State of the United States met in Melbourne, Australia on 11 February 2022, for the fourth Quad Foreign Ministers’ Meeting. In meeting, we reaffirm the Quad’s commitment to supporting Indo Pacific countries’ efforts to advance a free and open Indo-Pacific – a region which is inclusive and resilient, and in which states strive to protect the interests of their people, free from coercion.

Our meeting advanced the Quad’s positive and ambitious agenda. We are focused on working closely with Indo-Pacific partners to address the region’s most important challenges. Working together as the Quad, we are more effective in delivering practical support to the region.

As unwavering supporters of ASEAN unity and centrality, and the ASEAN-led architecture, we continue to support ASEAN partners to advance the practical implementation of ASEAN’s Outlook on the Indo-Pacific. The Outlook’s principles are fundamental to regional stability and prosperity and will be key to guiding the region’s economic and political future. We acknowledge the importance of sub-regional mechanisms and institutions, including in the Mekong sub-region. We will continue to support Cambodia in its important role as 2022 ASEAN Chair.

As we enter the third year of the COVID-19 pandemic, Quad partners have collectively provided more than 500 million vaccine doses. Together, we have pledged to donate more than 1.3 billion vaccine doses globally. We are pleased with the Quad Vaccine Partnership’s rapid progress in expanding vaccine production at the Biological E Ltd facility in India, which aims to deliver at least 1 billion vaccines by the end of 2022. We look forward to the delivery of the first batch of Quad-supported vaccines in the first half of this year. We are assisting to train healthcare workers, combat vaccine hesitancy and augment infrastructure, especially cold chain systems, for ‘last mile’ vaccine delivery. We are working to identify and address vaccine gaps and barriers exacerbated by gender, disability and social inequities, and ensure safe, effective, affordable and quality-assured vaccination coverage in hard-to-reach areas. We welcome the timely initiative for coordinating the response to combat the COVID pandemic under a Global Action Plan for Enhanced Engagement.

We welcome progress on the practical cooperation we lead as Quad Foreign Ministers to address regional challenges, including humanitarian assistance and disaster response (HADR), maritime security, counter-terrorism, countering disinformation and cyber security.

We are strengthening HADR cooperation in the region. Since 2004, when we collaborated in response to the Indian Ocean tsunami, Quad partners have continued to respond quickly and effectively to natural disasters in the Indo-Pacific. We recognise that recent natural disasters and the COVID-19 pandemic have highlighted the need to build and maintain resilience against such events, and are proud to be supporting our Tongan partners in their response and recovery efforts following the January 2022 volcano eruption and tsunami. We commit to further strengthening our collaboration and building links between our response agencies to provide timely and effective HADR support to the region.

The Quad recognises that international law, peace, and security in the maritime domain underpins the development and prosperity of the Indo-Pacific. We reiterate the importance of adherence to international law, particularly as reflected in the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), to meet challenges to the maritime rules-based order, including in the South and East China Seas. We are determined to deepen engagement with regional partners, including through capacity-building and technical assistance, to strengthen maritime domain awareness; protect their ability to develop offshore resources, consistent with UNCLOS; ensure freedom of navigation and overflight; combat challenges, such as illegal, unreported, and unregulated fishing; and promote the safety and security of sea lines of communication.

The Quad is exchanging information on ever-evolving threats and working with Indo-Pacific countries, and in multilateral fora, to counter all forms of terrorism and violent extremism. We denounce the use of terrorist proxies for cross-border terrorism and urge countries to work together to eliminate terrorist safe havens; disrupt terrorist networks and the infrastructure and financial channels which sustain them; and halt cross-border movement of terrorists. In this context, we call on all countries to ensure that territory under their control is not used to launch terror attacks and to expeditiously bring to justice the perpetrators of such attacks. We reiterate our condemnation of terrorist attacks in India, including 26/11 Mumbai and Pathankot attacks. We reaffirm UNSC Resolution 2593 (2021) that Afghan territory should not be used to threaten or attack any country, shelter or train terrorists, or plan or finance terrorist acts, with such ungoverned spaces being a direct threat to the safety and security of the Indo-Pacific.

The Quad is supporting regional neighbours to build resilience and counter disinformation. We will also coordinate efforts to assist partners across the Indo-Pacific to address the growing threat of ransomware, by strengthening capacity building to ensure resilient cyber security and to counter cybercrime. We are committed to promoting international peace and stability in cyberspace, and to helping build the capacity of regional countries to implement the UN Voluntary Framework for Responsible State Behaviour in Cyberspace.

Quad partners champion the free, open, and inclusive rules-based order, rooted in international law, that protects the sovereignty and territorial integrity of regional countries. We reaffirm our commitment to upholding and strengthening the rules-based multilateral trading system, with the World Trade Organization at its core. We oppose coercive economic policies and practices that run counter to this system and will work collectively to foster global economic resilience against such actions.

We express our commitment to strengthen our diplomatic efforts so that the vision for technologies, guided by the Quad Principles on Technology Design, Development, Governance, and Use, will be further shared by all like-minded nations.

Reflecting Quad leaders’ commitment to cooperate to establish responsible and resilient clean-energy supply chains, we welcome Australia’s proposal to host an Indo-Pacific Clean Energy Supply Chain Forum in mid-2022.

We reaffirm our belief that our people-to-people ties are among the Quad’s greatest strengths and welcomed the United States’ new exchange programs in the fields of cyber security, maritime security, countering disinformation, and promoting transparency in governance. We are exploring a track 1.5 dialogue between our respective strategic thinkers.

Alongside our Quad Foreign Ministers’ agenda, we welcome other ongoing work in delivering Quad Leaders’ ambitious initiatives in key areas, such as the Quad Vaccine Partnership, climate change, cyber security, infrastructure, and the peaceful use of outer space, education, and critical and emerging technologies.

We remain gravely concerned about the crisis in Myanmar and call for an end to violence, the release of all those arbitrarily detained, including foreigners, and unhindered humanitarian access. We reaffirm our support for ASEAN efforts to seek a solution in Myanmar and call on the military regime to urgently implement ASEAN’s Five-Point Consensus and swiftly return Myanmar to the path of democracy. We encourage the international community to work together to support an end to the violence.

We condemn North Korea’s destabilising ballistic missile launches in violation of UN Security Council resolutions (UNSCRs), reaffirm our commitment to the complete denuclearisation of North Korea consistent with UNSCRs, and reconfirm the necessity of immediate resolution of the issue of Japanese abductees.

We look forward to Japan hosting the next Quad Leaders’ Summit in the first half of 2022.

We will continue to meet annually to deliver as a force for good for the region.
 
A meeting of Quad leaders (Biden, Modi, Morrison, Kishida) was arranged out of the blue, scheduled for later tonight. The official line says "...discuss developments in the Indo-Pacific".

https://www.mea.gov.in/pres...

The next meeting was scheduled for May...something's not adding up. I have to wonder if this incident of a possible cyber attack on Taiwan (coinciding with Pompeo & US officials' visit) is what prompted this...there could be more to this than we're seeing. Also, recently there was this:

 
At this point in time. India has closer ties to Russia, than the other members of QUAD.
Always has been so . This is a tried & tested friendship. Unlike Quad which is yet to see such testing times. The first test would either be in Taiwan or the LAC. While we don't expect or seek active US intervention on the LAC issue , hopefully the US does better than hosting an online speech by the Taiwanese President , passing resolutions condemning Chinese aggression. Also hopefully Canberra would name a few streets after Taiwan .

That's the most the Quad including Taiwan expects from you .
 
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