This is now a third version of the 'truth', seen as the first two have failed. It's like the Moskva all over again. You have to be seriously deluded to believe someone who keeps changing their story.
Ukraine - Russia Conflict
- Thread starter randomradio
- Start date
Oh sure, it passed through all those buildings on the way and made a hole in the roof of the shopping centre half a kilometre away. The lake is only 100m away for comparison and has no interceding buildings on the path. So the shopping centre is 5 times that distance away and somehow has the walls and roof removed. Plus they already lied and said it was a false flag anyway:
Russian strike hits shopping center with over 1,000 people inside, Ukraine says
“The number of victims is impossible to imagine,” President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said.www.nbcnews.com
That basically indicates that they're going to come up with some lie regardless and aren't bothered. You can't present 2 different versions of the truth and expect anyone to believe you.
The entire complex is the target, not literally what the yellow arrow points to. The mall shares a wall with the factory complex.
There's nothing left of the mall to tell us there's a hole on the roof. The roof caved in due to the fire, very likely due to secondary explosions from the factory.
The US did.
Yes, there's nothing wrong with what he said, 'cause it's the truth. But the Europeans didn't realise that was the truth. Comfort and security made them delusional.
Lol. Putin was in control of Ukraine before 2014. The coup and the regime change, led by the US, is what turned things over on its head.
Okay, so yellow was the target, it's a factory complex meant for military production. Blue is the neighbouring shopping mall. Red is the park as seen in the video below.
It's not surprising the mall suffered from the overpressure and debris from the explosions and was gutted by the resulting fire.
What's the point in posting a map and then completely contradicting it? The missile hit the shopping centre directly.
How exactly? Did the US mind control the Ukrainian people into voting to join the EU in 2010 and mind control both the main parties to campaign on that basis in 2010. Did they mind control Putin to force Yanukovych to join the EEU in a meeting? Mind control all the Ukrainian people to protest? Mind control Yanukovych to flee to Russia? Mind control Putin to invade Crimea and part of the Donbass? Mind control the DPR to break Minsk I&II? And then mind control Putin to invade Ukraine? Grow up.
Ah, so you've finally admitted that. I thought it was a democracy.
It's a little more complicated though, because elections were still running and Ukraine voted to join the EU in 2010 and both main parties campaigned on that basis. So when Putin told Yanukovych he couldn't, it became apparent to people that it wasn't a democracy and people protested. Putin doesn't have enough poison for that many opponents though, so he's mass murdering them in shopping centres and apartment blocks.
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It's Ukrainian propaganda vs Russian propaganda. Truth is somewhere in the center.
I will anyway waste a bit of my time explaining the strike and the strike cctv footages.
Here is the map of the strikelocation.
Here is the map with different colors marking different structures.
1)Light blue represents the "Mall"
2)Yellow represents the "heavy vehicle factory "
3) Green represents "railway track". You can see an extension of the railway track going into the vehicle factory, most likely for transport of manufactured vehicles.
4)Pink represents the "Park" behind the factory.
Here is a zoomed-in picture of the mall and the railway line located east going into the factory
Here is the zoomed picture of the park north of the factory
Now, here is the video of the Russian missile strike.
Pause the video at 16 seconds and you can see that the missile strike was on the immediate south of the water park. From the map I gave earlier, you can see that south of the park is the northern side of the heavy vehicle factory.
Again, if you pause the video at 1:01, you can clearly see the explosion from another angle. The explosion was in the immediate south of the park, inside the heavy vehicle factory.
Pause the video at 1:21 and again you can clearly see the explosion just south of the park, inside the factory,
From these pictures, it is very clear that the strike was in the factory and the approximate location of the strike is marked in the picture below.
I am not claiming that there was only one strike and there was no strike near the mall. According to the reports, there were multiple missile strikes. And from the picture of the burned down the mall, one missile seems to have struck north east of the Mall in the railway lines and most likely it caused the fire in the mall.
Anyways the point I am making is simple. The allegation that the Russians deliberately struck the Mall is wrong. Russians were striking the heavy vehicle factory ( which Russians also believe is hosting western weapons) and the factory indeed got hit.
And here are some more pictures from the aftermath. You can see that the missile hit the warehouses inside the factory (see the "approximate strike location in the earlier picture. Its the same werehouses)
Okay, looks like the viewpoint is from the place which says MOTO-KPOXA in the map.
Yes to all. It's not difficult for larger powers to manipulate smaller powers, especially if the leadership is stupid enough, like Zelensky. The same is happening in Georgia, where people are protesting about their EU membership.
Thousands rally in Georgia in support of EU membership bid
Demonstration in Tbilisi comes days after the European Commission recommended deferring Georgia’s candidacy.
What the people in smaller countries want is not necessarily in the interest of greater powers around them. If push comes to shove, the Russians will invade Georgia as well. It's pretty much the same reason why NATO invaded Libya. Small countries are not sovereign unless they have a very big stick, they are merely tolerated until they cross some kind of line. Cuba, Libya, Serbia, Georgia... The list never ends.
Ah, so you've finally admitted that. I thought it was a democracy.
Ukraine was a democracy, but under Russian pseudo-control. Meaning, the Russians left them alone as long as they didn't make "traitorous" moves. They were basically neutral to each other politically.
The minute the coup happened, Ukraine both ceased being a democracy and also became a Russian enemy.
Georgia is going the same way now, although the EU itself has deferred its candidacy.
Yeah. It looks like the missile was supposed to hit the loading area behind the crater, basically what looks like an open station with a crane, and missed by a few meters.
US authorities stopped a tanker full of Russian oil products on its way to New Orleans, report says
The US banned Russian energy imports in early March in response to Vladimir Putin's war on Ukraine.
finance.yahoo.com
Roughly yes, I would say it's CCTV in the yard SW of where it says that, between MOTO-KPOXA and the shopping centre, since you can see the blue and white containers in the foreground. The missile hits the shopping centre directly.Okay, looks like the viewpoint is from the place which says MOTO-KPOXA in the map.
Yes to all. It's not difficult for larger powers to manipulate smaller powers, especially if the leadership is stupid enough, like Zelensky. The same is happening in Georgia, where people are protesting about their EU membership.
Thousands rally in Georgia in support of EU membership bid
Demonstration in Tbilisi comes days after the European Commission recommended deferring Georgia’s candidacy.www.aljazeera.com
What the people in smaller countries want is not necessarily in the interest of greater powers around them. If push comes to shove, the Russians will invade Georgia as well. It's pretty much the same reason why NATO invaded Libya. Small countries are not sovereign unless they have a very big stick, they are merely tolerated until they cross some kind of line. Cuba, Libya, Serbia, Georgia... The list never ends.
Ukraine was a democracy, but under Russian pseudo-control. Meaning, the Russians left them alone as long as they didn't make "traitorous" moves. They were basically neutral to each other politically.
The minute the coup happened, Ukraine both ceased being a democracy and also became a Russian enemy.
Georgia is going the same way now, although the EU itself has deferred its candidacy.
I'm talking about long before Zelensky. The people wanted to join the EU, that was what both main parties campaigned on in 2010 and why people protested when Putin told Yanukovych to join the EEU instead. Putin has basically acted as an Ayatollah over Ukrainian 'democracy' since the start of this century, poisoning candidates that don't fit, and controlling those that do. The same is happening in Georgia because people want to join the EU, the Russian economic model does not appeal to anyone. This is persuasion not manipulation. Manipulation is when you use force, bribery or blackmail like Putin does.
Cold War aside, when nuclear MRBMs were a real threat, the civil war in Libya began before NATO intervened. Gaddafi also invaded Chad and had a history of false arrest and torture within Libya. Serbia committed genocide and that is the only instance of NATO military action in Europe since its conception. Ukraine is a completely baseless intervention by comparison.
Yep, Putin was the Ayatollah and Ukraine was its Iran. Democracy was therefore a lie. There is no need to consider EU membership has traitorous, whilst the EU and NATO have expanded, actual military presence has been continually reduced, starting with the INF and the scrapping of MRBMs/IRBMs and reduction of nuclear warheads and military infrastructure.
Nope. I don't know how you sit there with a straight face and tell me it's a democracy when you've openly admitted it was under Russian control. That's not democracy, unless the people voted to be under Russian control, which they surely didn't. Would you regard India as a democracy if it was under the control of the British Raj and Britain broadly let you get on with it but occasionally poisoned candidates and told your leader what they could and couldn't do? That's isn't democracy, the coup was democracy, just as surely as Indian independence in 1947 was democracy. The coup sort to eliminate Putin's control and bring Ukraine back under the control of its people.
Like I said, Russia isn't very attractive to Europeans, or many Russians.
Red arrow is camera angle, note blue and white containers and yellow crane. Green arrow points to tree line.
So why did they offer 5 different version of 'the truth' beforehand?
Denial -> False flag by NATO -> Debris set fire -> Munition flew off and hit mall -> Missile went off course.
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That's a scrapyard and the camera is on the side of a medical centre.
The site above is:
Kremenchutsʹkyy Zavod Shlyakhovykh Mashyn, Vat car factory 128 Likes - проспект Свободы 4 Kremenchuk Phone number WWW | Yellow Pages Network
ЧАО «Кредмаш» — ведущий производитель асфальтосмесительных установок и запасных частей к ним. car factory, Kremenchuk, +380 536742289 | Yellow Pages Network
Офіційний сайт ПрАТ «Кредмаш» ▷ Кременчуцький завод дорожніх машин
Офіційний сайт виробника асфальтозмішувальних установок і запасних частин до них. ☑️ Поставка, монтаж і сервіс АСУ ☑️ Європейські стандарти.
kredmash.com
This is clearly marked on Google Earth also, mall at bottom right.
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West to gulf and other countries, increase oil output as we want to stop consuming oil in near future. There is going to be radical shift geopolitics in next 10 years, gulf countries which were under US protection might themselves find under threat by west.
www.euractiv.com
finance.yahoo.com
EU nations approve end to combustion engine sales by 2035 - Euractiv
The EU's 27 member states approved to end the sale of vehicles with combustion engines by 2035 in Europe, officials announced early Wednesday (29 June), marking a major victory in the EU's bid to reduce CO2 emissions to net-zero by 2050.
www.euractiv.com
there is no stopping russian oil, even saudi indirectly use it.
US authorities stopped a tanker full of Russian oil products on its way to New Orleans, report says
The US banned Russian energy imports in early March in response to Vladimir Putin's war on Ukraine.
Now Egypt Emerges as Major Supplier of Fuel Oil to Saudi Arabia
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