Ukraine - Russia Conflict

randomradio · Jul 26, 2022

Massive overhaul of the Polish Land Forces.

Big South Korea-Polish Arms Deal Includes FA-50 Fighters, K2 Tanks, K9 Howitzers

The deal is a win for Poland that needs modern weapons fast and for South Korea's defense industry.

www.thedrive.com

MBT:
116 M1A1 tanks upgraded to M1A2SEPv3
250 new build M1A2SEPv3

180 new build Korean K2 MBTs followed by license production of 820 K2PLs. This will be followed by a joint development of a new K3PL MBT with Korea.

So Poland will replace their old Soviet and German tanks with these 2 tanks. So about 1400 tanks in all.

SPH:
48 new indigneous Polish Krabs to add to the 100+ they already operate.

48 K9A1
652 K9A2 called K9PL. The K9A1s will also be upgraded to K9PL.

That's around 850 SPHs.

Not mentioned in the article--

1400 Korean K21 IFVs to be license produced.

500+ HIMARS launchers on Polish trucks and the Polish Topaz ICMS. There may be interest in the Korean K239 as well.

23 batteries of British CAMM-based air defences called Narew.

=========================

@Picdelamirand-oil

Looks like Poland has completely gone over to the US camp.

Innominate · Jul 26, 2022

They should be allowed a factory to produce HiMARS and parts for M1's.

Amazing what Russian aggression will force a country to do. Poland will surpass Germany in military capability even France with the exception of Navy.

US MIC should send Pooty poo candy and flowers every Feb 24th.

Hydra · Jul 26, 2022

randomradio said:
For it to work the other way round, the UAF needs artillery. Some 50 M777s and 10 HIMARS can't compete with Russian artillery. But more than that, they need proper military leadership. Zelensky is getting his troops killed in order to hold political objectives on the ground. A real military force would have conserved forces and fled across the Dnieper River long ago.

What's happening now is the Russians are slaughtering Ukrainians en masse with nothing but artillery. Russian SF and LDPR forces pinpoint targets, and the Russians bombard the target with such force and brutality that nothing's left at the end.

Let me put the numbers in perspective. Ukraine officially says they are facing 1000 casualties a day. But the real number is well over 2000. Possibly even 2500 per day, if not 3000. And they have a million men under their command. Do you understand what these numbers mean? When compared to WW1, the Allies suffered 12000 casualties a day with 42 million soldiers under command. So the per day ratio between WW1 and the current Ukraine war is 8.5:1. Meaning for every casualty in WW1 on the Allied side there are 8.5 Ukrainians today. Even if we assume official figures, the casualty rate is still 3.5 times higher than WW1. Yeah, wrap that around your head.

One has to be really ignorant or really fvcked up to encourage the Ukrainians to keep fighting in such a situation.

Yeas, UKrain cannot win against Russia, they have immense number of weapoms.But problem is Russians are struggling against ill equipped Ukrain.

randomradio said:
Massive overhaul of the Polish Land Forces.

Big South Korea-Polish Arms Deal Includes FA-50 Fighters, K2 Tanks, K9 Howitzers

The deal is a win for Poland that needs modern weapons fast and for South Korea's defense industry.

www.thedrive.com

MBT:
116 M1A1 tanks upgraded to M1A2SEPv3
250 new build M1A2SEPv3

180 new build Korean K2 MBTs followed by license production of 820 K2PLs. This will be followed by a joint development of a new K3PL MBT with Korea.

So Poland will replace their old Soviet and German tanks with these 2 tanks. So about 1400 tanks in all.

SPH:
48 new indigneous Polish Krabs to add to the 100+ they already operate.

48 K9A1
652 K9A2 called K9PL. The K9A1s will also be upgraded to K9PL.

That's around 850 SPHs.

Not mentioned in the article--

1400 Korean K21 IFVs to be license produced.

500+ HIMARS launchers on Polish trucks and the Polish Topaz ICMS. There may be interest in the Korean K239 as well.

23 batteries of British CAMM-based air defences called Narew.

=========================

@Picdelamirand-oil

Looks like Poland has completely gone over to the US camp.

Hope India too will induct K2s the way Polish are doing. How do you compare Pinaka Mk1 & ER variants with HIMARS?

randomradio · Jul 26, 2022

Innominate said:
They should be allowed a factory to produce HiMARS and parts for M1's.

Amazing what Russian aggression will force a country to do. Poland will surpass Germany in military capability even France with the exception of Navy.

US MIC should send Pooty poo candy and flowers every Feb 24th.

If you want to compare this force with the current Germany and France, first you will have to combine the two, and then multiply by 3 to get to this new Polish army. And if you multiply the Polish army by another 2, you get to the size of the US and Russian armies.

randomradio · Jul 26, 2022

Hydra said:
Yeas, UKrain cannot win against Russia, they have immense number of weapoms.But problem is Russians are struggling against ill equipped Ukrain.

How is imposing 3.5-8.5 times the casualties per day of WW1's considered struggling?

Hydra · Jul 26, 2022

randomradio said:
How is imposing 3.5-8.5 times the casualties per day of WW1's considered struggling?

I beleive killing maximum number of enemies is not the objective of any regular modern army, unless you are from Mongol era. Securing interest , land grab, controlling the ground, air are considered are & Russia failed to achieve any of the mentioned things even after 5 months of fighting.

Picdelamirand-oil · Jul 26, 2022

randomradio said:
For it to work the other way round, the UAF needs artillery. Some 50 M777s and 10 HIMARS can't compete with Russian artillery. But more than that, they need proper military leadership. Zelensky is getting his troops killed in order to hold political objectives on the ground. A real military force would have conserved forces and fled across the Dnieper River long ago.

What's happening now is the Russians are slaughtering Ukrainians en masse with nothing but artillery. Russian SF and LDPR forces pinpoint targets, and the Russians bombard the target with such force and brutality that nothing's left at the end.

Let me put the numbers in perspective. Ukraine officially says they are facing 1000 casualties a day. But the real number is well over 2000. Possibly even 2500 per day, if not 3000. And they have a million men under their command. Do you understand what these numbers mean? When compared to WW1, the Allies suffered 12000 casualties a day with 42 million soldiers under command. So the per day ratio between WW1 and the current Ukraine war is 8.5:1. Meaning for every casualty in WW1 on the Allied side there are 8.5 Ukrainians today. Even if we assume official figures, the casualty rate is still 3.5 times higher than WW1. Yeah, wrap that around your head.

One has to be really ignorant or really fvcked up to encourage the Ukrainians to keep fighting in such a situation.

You take propaganda figures which distorts your reasoning. You are applying figures that may have been true for a day or two over a long period of time, and in addition these figures have probably been exaggerated for political purposes in order to reinforce Western aid.
In the last article I posted, there is a more reasonable assessment that distinguishes between periods of intense fighting and quieter periods.

The president, Volodymyr Zelensky, said in an interview with the Wall Street Journal on Saturday 23 July that daily losses had fallen to 30 soldiers killed and 250 wounded a day. During the worst phase of the invasion, in May and June, the daily average of Ukrainian soldiers killed was 200 or more, according to official Ukrainian sources.

randomradio · Jul 26, 2022

Picdelamirand-oil said:
You take propaganda figures which distorts your reasoning. You are applying figures that may have been true for a day or two over a long period of time, and in addition these figures have probably been exaggerated for political purposes in order to reinforce Western aid.
In the last article I posted, there is a more reasonable assessment that distinguishes between periods of intense fighting and quieter periods.

If that's the case, then they wouldn't say it publicly. Those who know basic math can tell even the "propaganda" figure of 1000 casualties is too high. 1000 casualties means you need to train 1000 soldiers a day to replace them, this is extremely hard to imagine for such a short time. Also, we know for a fact that the Russians did not reduce or cease offensive at any time after the start of the Donbas operation, until early July.

The length and consistency of the Russian offensive has been way too much for Ukraine to handle.

Russian troops' lack of rest is one of the 'most damaging' issues facing Putin's army in Ukraine, UK says

A lack of rest among Russian forces in Ukraine is "highly likely one of the most damaging of the many personnel issues" facing the army, UK defense official said.

www.foxnews.com

"The lack of scheduled breaks from intense combat conditions is highly likely one of the most damaging of the many personnel issues the Russian [Ministry of Defense] is struggling to rectify amongst the deployed force," the UK defense officials said in an intelligence update.

Also the part you quoted, the casualty rate has dropped because the Russians have stopped the offensive after Lysychansk fell. Which is also why fire maps shows lack of fighting.

Day 145 Of War In Ukraine: Russian Forces On Strategic Rest Mode, Two Cities Now In Putin’s Crosshairs - News18

The Russian forces are most likely to focus on taking Kramatorsk and Sloviansk which will give them an edge if they want to start a fresh offensive for taking Kyiv

www.news18.com

Russian forces take ‘operational pause’ in Ukraine war: Analysts

Russia may be temporarily easing its offensive in eastern Ukraine in a bid to reassemble force strength, analysts say.

www.aljazeera.com

30 KIA and 250 WIA are without the Russians actually fighting. Even then this is too high.

Western aid isn't a good enough excuse since it was coming anyway. In fact the general belief still is the numbers have been understated in order to not break UAF morale.

randomradio · Jul 26, 2022

Hydra said:
I beleive killing maximum number of enemies is not the objective of any regular modern army, unless you are from Mongol era. Securing interest , land grab, controlling the ground, air are considered are & Russia failed to achieve any of the mentioned things even after 5 months of fighting.

Google "attrition warfare".

Picdelamirand-oil · Jul 26, 2022

randomradio said:
If that's the case, then they wouldn't say it publicly. Those who know basic math can tell even the "propaganda" figure of 1000 casualties is too high. 1000 casualties means you need to train 1000 soldiers a day to replace them, this is extremely hard to imagine for such a short time. Also, we know for a fact that the Russians did not reduce or cease offensive at any time after the start of the Donbas operation, until early July.

The length and consistency of the Russian offensive has been way too much for Ukraine to handle.

Russian troops' lack of rest is one of the 'most damaging' issues facing Putin's army in Ukraine, UK says

A lack of rest among Russian forces in Ukraine is "highly likely one of the most damaging of the many personnel issues" facing the army, UK defense official said.

www.foxnews.com

"The lack of scheduled breaks from intense combat conditions is highly likely one of the most damaging of the many personnel issues the Russian [Ministry of Defense] is struggling to rectify amongst the deployed force," the UK defense officials said in an intelligence update.

Also the part you quoted, the casualty rate has dropped because the Russians have stopped the offensive after Lysychansk fell. Which is also why fire maps shows lack of fighting.

Day 145 Of War In Ukraine: Russian Forces On Strategic Rest Mode, Two Cities Now In Putin’s Crosshairs - News18

The Russian forces are most likely to focus on taking Kramatorsk and Sloviansk which will give them an edge if they want to start a fresh offensive for taking Kyiv

www.news18.com

Russian forces take ‘operational pause’ in Ukraine war: Analysts

Russia may be temporarily easing its offensive in eastern Ukraine in a bid to reassemble force strength, analysts say.

www.aljazeera.com

30 KIA and 250 WIA are without the Russians actually fighting. Even then this is too high.

Western aid isn't a good enough excuse since it was coming anyway. In fact the general belief still is the numbers have been understated in order to not break UAF morale.

At the rate you claim the Ukrainians would not have survived 5 months.

Hydra · Jul 26, 2022

randomradio said:
Google "attrition warfare".

That's an occupational hazard of any war. FYI Soviets had the maximum number of casualties than any other major participants of the ww2. Does this make USSR a loser in ww2?

BMD · Jul 26, 2022

randomradio said:
For it to work the other way round, the UAF needs artillery. Some 50 M777s and 10 HIMARS can't compete with Russian artillery. But more than that, they need proper military leadership. Zelensky is getting his troops killed in order to hold political objectives on the ground. A real military force would have conserved forces and fled across the Dnieper River long ago.

What's happening now is the Russians are slaughtering Ukrainians en masse with nothing but artillery. Russian SF and LDPR forces pinpoint targets, and the Russians bombard the target with such force and brutality that nothing's left at the end.

Let me put the numbers in perspective. Ukraine officially says they are facing 1000 casualties a day. But the real number is well over 2000. Possibly even 2500 per day, if not 3000. And they have a million men under their command. Do you understand what these numbers mean? When compared to WW1, the Allies suffered 12000 casualties a day with 42 million soldiers under command. So the per day ratio between WW1 and the current Ukraine war is 8.5:1. Meaning for every casualty in WW1 on the Allied side there are 8.5 Ukrainians today. Even if we assume official figures, the casualty rate is still 3.5 times higher than WW1. Yeah, wrap that around your head.

One has to be really ignorant or really fvcked up to encourage the Ukrainians to keep fighting in such a situation.

They've got 25 HIMARS and hundreds of 155mm and 152mm from NATO, with far better ammunition than the Russian equipment. They're bleeding the Russians at every step of the way.

Because they're not bothered about civilians casualties, but the Ukrainians work with better intelligence and accuracy and cause the Russians equal deaths and more problems tactically. Weapons are only useful if you can target them.

You're talking garbage. The 'official' Ukrianian number is way lower. 1,000 was the real number that a person in the field gave away. The Russians suffered 1120 total casualties yesterday and 960 the day before. The rest is just some crap you made up.

What you fail to realise is that Ukraine is the defending side, they do not have to win to win, they just have to keep fighting. In a few years time Russia will be economically crippled and hundred of thousands of Russian troops will have been killed. Let Putin try explain that in a successful way.

Hydra said:
That's an occupational hazard of any war. FYI Soviets had the maximum number of casualties than any other major participants of the ww2. Does this make USSR a loser in ww2?

And the North Vietnamese in the Vietnam War.

BMD · Jul 26, 2022

https://twitter.com/x/status/1551760789471641601

BMD · Jul 26, 2022

jetray said:
, getting badly beaten by a bunch of rag tag mullahs acked by bankrupt pakistan with with no advanced weapon system must have been really painful.

really what abt it, what happened after saddam was toppled, was USA able to control iraq. Iran is running the show in iraq now even after killing of solemani by US. What started as shock & awe soon turned to shit or run.

For all the BS west spouts it should be quite evident that if west had the ability to take on russia on their own they would have done it. Instead they hide behind a clown.

The coalition lost half as many people in Afghanistan in 20 years as India loses to hunger and malnutrition every day. Taliban/ISIS/Al-Quaeda lost 20 times as many.

Iran is not running the show in Iraq. Iran spent 20 years, aided by Russia, supporting Al-Quaeda in Iraq and other terrorist factions in the murder of civilians. This achieved nothing but death that whataboutists could then blame on the US/NATO.

BMD · Jul 26, 2022

randomradio said:
How is imposing 3.5-8.5 times the casualties per day of WW1's considered struggling?

Compare how Russia is doing in Ukraine with the first 5 months of the Vietnam War. Russia is more than struggling. Much more. And the US were fighting with geographical limits on their range of targets.