Ukraine - Russia Conflict

[randomradio]

How about this?

Israel ‘will not’ supply weapons to Ukraine: Defense minister

JERUSALEM: Israel will not send weapons to Ukraine, Defense Minister Benny Gantz said Wednesday, two days after Russia warned that an Israeli move to bolster Kyiv’s forces would severely damage relations. “Our policy vis-a-vis Ukraine will not change — we will continue to support and stand with...

www.arabnews.com

“Our policy vis-a-vis Ukraine will not change — we will continue to support and stand with the West, we will not provide weapon systems,” Gantz told a briefing of European Union ambassadors, according to a statement from his office.

Yeah. The minute the "former" PM said it, that was a done deal.

No they aren't. Those who earnt it get in.

Former would be like Gorbachev weighing in if he was still alive.

25% of the budget only covers part of the wages bill though. Not all troops are deployed. It also doesn't cover the AF and Navy or civilian personnel. You can times that figure by 3.

Where from?

Which is less than they would normally give when Russia isn't suffering war costs and sanctions. Russia is dependent on resources for 60% of its GDP, so $300bn is negligible, unless they can balance the books with a GDP of only $500bn.

Economy of Russia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Russia's Natural Resources Valued at 60% of GDP - The Moscow Times

Russia’s Natural Resources and Environment Ministry estimates that the combined worth of the country’s oil, gas and other resources amounts to 60 percent of its gross domestic product, the RBC news website reported on Thursday.

www.themoscowtimes.com

Yes, but Russia allowing the passage of grain to Africa is the only reason that Ukraine hasn't received ATACMS, SLAM-ER and long range UUVs capable of killing ships and subs with a complete derestriction on targeting. Many are arguing that they should go this route anyway in light of Russia's recent attacks, since Russia can't blockade grain without a Black Sea fleet anyway.

It will supply a detection system though.

Gantz: Israel may supply Ukraine with rocket and drone alert system, but not weapons

Defense minister says Jerusalem seeking info needed for development of 'life-saving civilian early-warning system,’ amid repeated Russian attacks on Ukrainian cities

www.timesofisrael.com

And Iran is getting EU sanctions now anyway.

Oil and gas is 25% of their economy, but 40% of their govt revenues. And they are making more than they did last year.

The food advantage is long term, not just for the war period.

Iran was always under sanctions. They will just nuclearise in retaliation.

 

[randomradio]

Says Mr. I support Imperialism except when it's British but the ebil West are hypocrites.

That's not even a sheep, it's a confused cow with BSE.

The West is the cause of Russia's invasion, genius.

 

[RASALGHUL]

The West is the cause of Russia's invasion, genius.

WOAH! Slow Down.
I wouldn't say West is the Cause of Russia's invasion. I mean you can say that West could have more tactful, But saying that "West is the cause" is just simply wrong.

 

[randomradio]

WOAH! Slow Down.
I wouldn't say West is the Cause of Russia's invasion. I mean you can say that West could have more tactful, But saying that "West is the cause" is just simply wrong.

They used a TV actor to manipulate the voting base to get him into power, convinced him that they will come to help during war, and then pushed him towards a war that he shouldn't have fought to begin with, post which they pretty much abandoned him. Recall how he was cribbing and complaining about it in the beginning? Now he's fighting an existential war, the genius.

The entire plan was to turn Ukraine into Russia's Afghanistan. And it worked, in a way. All this talk of providing assistance is only to keep the war going.

The West originally thought Russia will take over Ukraine and then that will fuel an insurgency, like the 80s in Afghanistan, which the West will fund. Fight the Russians to the last Ukrainian. This would force Russia to use up a lot of manpower and money thereby keeping the West safe. Their population decline would take care of the rest. And this will allow the West to deal with the real threat, China, without Russian interference. They didn't want to supply Ukraine with heavy weapons, like jets, tanks and artillery because they would be of no use in an insurgency. It's only after Ukraine started fighting back successfully that the West decided to keep the war going by supplying them with heavy weapons.

And, instead of Afghanistan, the Russians themselves turned it into their Vietnam by half-assing the war, by wrongly assuming the Ukrainians won't fight. Then the Russians went in with the plan to "demilitarise" Ukraine. That means killing off all the potential soldiers that can be used in a prolonged insurgency.

If the West didn't want Russia to attack Ukraine, then they would have armed Ukraine to the teeth years ago. They obviously didn't.

That patsy called Zelensky was then suckered into saying Ukraine wants to join NATO in 2021, and that ended any real chance for peace. All the talks they had before became useless with that one comment. Everybody knew there was no chance for Ukraine to enter NATO, but Zelensky was easily tricked by the US and UK, with the two countries knowing fully well that France and Germany will deny their entry. This is no different from how all these countries keep promising India a UNSC seat knowing fully well that China will deny it, so they can then claim they are trying. So, all of this was planned a long time ago, under Clinton and Bush, like the Iraq War, Iran's sanctions and the Syrian insurgency, these three countries act as Russia's soft underbelly, and then the final touch put into motion under Obama, Ukraine. Trump's election simply delayed this plan, 'cause he's not a career politician and doesn't understand the great game very well.

Even France and Germany were suckered into being participants too. The French were so clueless, even their intelligence chief was convinced there won't be a war. Such an idiot. The Germans are permanently clueless, it's their default setting. The Russians woke up to this in 2008, which is why they started militarising.

All of America's enemies/potential enemies have a preassigned patsy dedicated to fight for America. For Russia, it's Ukraine. For China, it's India. For India, it's Pakistan.

 

[BMD]

The West is the cause of Russia's invasion, genius.

No, Putin is the cause of Russia's invasion. They believe that countries like Ukraine, Belarus and other ex-SSRs are supposed to be subservient to them. If they don't accept that new form of imperialism then Russia believes it has the right to implement the old form of imperialism.

Tell me, why does Lukashenko even have a separate vote to Russia at the UN? It's like giving Emu a separate vote to Rod Hull.

 

[RASALGHUL]

LOL! UAE is going out of a way to get Offended?
BTW, What was Joseph borell trying to say though?
I couldn't make any sense out of it?
Maybe People like @BMD can explain to me...

 

[BMD]

They used a TV actor to manipulate the voting base to get him into power, convinced him that they will come to help during war, and then pushed him towards a war that he shouldn't have fought to begin with, post which they pretty much abandoned him. Recall how he was cribbing and complaining about it in the beginning? Now he's fighting an existential war, the genius.

The entire plan was to turn Ukraine into Russia's Afghanistan. And it worked, in a way. All this talk of providing assistance is only to keep the war going.

The West originally thought Russia will take over Ukraine and then that will fuel an insurgency, like the 80s in Afghanistan, which the West will fund. Fight the Russians to the last Ukrainian. This would force Russia to use up a lot of manpower and money thereby keeping the West safe. Their population decline would take care of the rest. And this will allow the West to deal with the real threat, China, without Russian interference. They didn't want to supply Ukraine with heavy weapons, like jets, tanks and artillery because they would be of no use in an insurgency. It's only after Ukraine started fighting back successfully that the West decided to keep the war going by supplying them with heavy weapons.

And, instead of Afghanistan, the Russians themselves turned it into their Vietnam by half-assing the war, by wrongly assuming the Ukrainians won't fight. Then the Russians went in with the plan to "demilitarise" Ukraine. That means killing off all the potential soldiers that can be used in a prolonged insurgency.

If the West didn't want Russia to attack Ukraine, then they would have armed Ukraine to the teeth years ago. They obviously didn't.

That patsy called Zelensky was then suckered into saying Ukraine wants to join NATO in 2021, and that ended any real chance for peace. All the talks they had before became useless with that one comment. Everybody knew there was no chance for Ukraine to enter NATO, but Zelensky was easily tricked by the US and UK, with the two countries knowing fully well that France and Germany will deny their entry. This is no different from how all these countries keep promising India a UNSC seat knowing fully well that China will deny it, so they can then claim they are trying. So, all of this was planned a long time ago, under Clinton and Bush, like the Iraq War, Iran's sanctions and the Syrian insurgency, these three countries act as Russia's soft underbelly, and then the final touch put into motion under Obama, Ukraine. Trump's election simply delayed this plan, 'cause he's not a career politician and doesn't understand the great game very well.

Even France and Germany were suckered into being participants too. The French were so clueless, even their intelligence chief was convinced there won't be a war. Such an idiot. The Germans are permanently clueless, it's their default setting. The Russians woke up to this in 2008, which is why they started militarising.

All of America's enemies/potential enemies have a preassigned patsy dedicated to fight for America. For Russia, it's Ukraine. For China, it's India. For India, it's Pakistan.

And what about when Ukraine was about to join the EU but Putin held a secret meeting with Yanukovych and then suddenly he went against all his election promises. Then as soon as Yanukovych fled to Russia (LOL), Putin invaded.

Yeah, because India, Pakistan and China wouldn't be fighting over borders otherwise would they? JFC, I'm surprised you don't hold America responsible for the weather too.

 

[BMD]

LOL! UAE is going out of a way to get Offended?
BTW, What was Joseph borell trying to say though?
I couldn't make any sense out of it?
Maybe People like @BMD can explain to me...

He was basically saying that Europe (most of it) is peaceful, most of the time, and its a place people want to live. The rest of the world, not so much. But the 'jungle' phrase was perhaps a bad choice because it sounds like he was calling outsiders monkeys for those who want to be offended. It'll probably be the end of his job anyway, given the low tolerance for that sort of thing in the EU. It's kind of funny to see an overly-PC EU person getting their foot caught in their mouth though.

 

[BMD]

Oil and gas is 25% of their economy, but 40% of their govt revenues. And they are making more than they did last year.

The food advantage is long term, not just for the war period.

Iran was always under sanctions. They will just nuclearise in retaliation.

So 4 x $300bn is still only $1.2tr, which is about 1/3rd less than last year.

Russia GDP

The Gross Domestic Product (GDP) in Russia was worth 2021.42 billion US dollars in 2023, according to official data from the World Bank. The GDP value of Russia represents 1.92 percent of the world economy. This page provides the latest reported value for - Russia GDP - plus previous releases...

tradingeconomics.com

This is your original statement:

Europe alone has given Russia €104B in oil and gas payments since Feb. China's given them 40B. A bunch of other countries including India have given them 22B. They are expected to make well over $300B in resource exports this year. More than enough to pay for the war while gaining a lot of territory, people and resources as well. Especially the food supply and the corresponding political benefits from MENA, the biggest oil suppliers who need said food.

It does not specify oil and gas, just resource exports, which includes metals, coal, wood and other crap. Natural resources is 60% of Russian GDP. They virtually have no GDP without their immense natural resources and what they did have they destroyed this year.

Economy of Russia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The oil and gas sector accounted up to roughly 40% of Russia's federal budget revenues, and up to 60% of its exports in 2019.[42] In 2019, the Natural Resources and Environment Ministry estimated the value of natural resources to 60% of the country's GDP.

 

[randomradio]

LOL! UAE is going out of a way to get Offended?
BTW, What was Joseph borell trying to say though?
I couldn't make any sense out of it?
Maybe People like @BMD can explain to me...

It's a good message. He's saying European money has to be spent in the Third World to improve life there. But he's also making an anti-immigration stand, which is good for Europe.

And what about when Ukraine was about to join the EU but Putin held a secret meeting with Yanukovych and then suddenly he went against all his election promises. Then as soon as Yanukovych fled to Russia (LOL), Putin invaded.

Yeah, because India, Pakistan and China wouldn't be fighting over borders otherwise would they? JFC, I'm surprised you don't hold America responsible for the weather too.

Ah, the child in you has awoken. Someday you will get critical thinking skills.

I'm sure you would be fine if Cuba hands itself over to China.

 

[BMD]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1582779827177676806

 

[Rajput Lion]

The West is the cause of Russia's invasion, genius.

Well said brother. And the sooner they understand that all this exercise would result in stronger Russia the better it would be for them.

 

[RASALGHUL]

They used a TV actor to manipulate the voting base to get him into power, convinced him that they will come to help during war, and then pushed him towards a war that he shouldn't have fought to begin with, post which they pretty much abandoned him. Recall how he was cribbing and complaining about it in the beginning? Now he's fighting an existential war, the genius.

Zelensky was elected democratically. If you are saying that west supported him to get elected then I need to see some proof.

The entire plan was to turn Ukraine into Russia's Afghanistan. And it worked, in a way. All this talk of providing assistance is only to keep the war going.

And Why would West/NATO Wants to do that?
NATO/WEST are far Superior in Resources to Russia. It is not even a contest.

That patsy called Zelensky was then suckered into saying Ukraine wants to join NATO in 2021, and that ended any real chance for peace. All the talks they had before became useless with that one comment. Everybody knew there was no chance for Ukraine to enter NATO, but Zelensky was easily tricked by the US and UK, with the two countries knowing fully well that France and Germany will deny their entry

If Russia Knew That Ukraine Is never going to be part of NATO, then why this invasion?Let Zelensky make noise.

This is no different from how all these countries keep promising India a UNSC seat knowing fully well that China will deny it, so they can then claim they are trying

100% agree here. P5 Doesn't want to share power with others.

So, all of this was planned a long time ago, under Clinton and Bush, like the Iraq War, Iran's sanctions and the Syrian insurgency, these three countries act as Russia's soft underbelly, and then the final touch put into motion under Obama, Ukraine. Trump's election simply delayed this plan, 'cause he's not a career politician and doesn't understand the great game very well

Again, Russia Is No where as close threat to US/WEST as USSR WAS.

Even France and Germany were suckered into being participants too. The French were so clueless, even their intelligence chief was convinced there won't be a war. Such an idiot. The Germans are permanently clueless, it's their default setting. The Russians woke up to this in 2008, which is why they started militarising.

Yup! That Intelligence failure wasn't good, But Neither france nor germany is clueless, Infact I think they are surpurised that putin chose war oer such a trivial matter.
Russia militarizing have more to do with their economic conditions.

All of America's enemies/potential enemies have a preassigned patsy dedicated to fight for America. For Russia, it's Ukraine. For China, it's India. For India, it's Pakistan.

LOL! How is India enemy of US?
China maybe, But even with china I don't see a war in foreseeable future.
Also, NOne of these countries(I/P/C) are stupid enough to go war with each other especially for US.
This is paranoia IMO.

Well said brother. And the sooner they understand that all this exercise would result in stronger Russia the better it would be for them.

NO, It's NOT.

 

[BMD]

It's a good message. He's saying European money has to be spent in the Third World to improve life there. But he's also making an anti-immigration stand, which is good for Europe.

Well it was supposed to be but the terms used were poorly selected.

Ah, the child in you has awoken. Someday you will get critical thinking skills.

In your mind critical thinking involves twisting every negative world invent into something the West caused. The spread of democracy via the EU was a threat to Putin. NATO/US was nothing to do with it.

I'm sure you would be fine if Cuba hands itself over to China.

Neither of those two are democracies, so both the regimes are illegitimate anyway. Cubans would love the US to invade them and let them vote on their government.

You see, you always deal with false equivalences. Dictatorships can never be treated the same as democracies, because the actions of democracies are moderated both by the people, representatives elected by the people and a free press. Whereas, with a dictatorship, one person decides everything, and if they are a lunatic like Putin, then lunacy is the result. The former is predictable, the latter is not. So allowing the latter to be next door is completely different to allowing the former to be next door.

 

[RASALGHUL]

And what about when Ukraine was about to join the EU but Putin held a secret meeting with Yanukovych and then suddenly he went against all his election promises. Then as soon as Yanukovych fled to Russia (LOL), Putin invaded.

Come ON! Don't be disingenous. There were Riots/Violence Just outside govt building. There was a legit threat To yanukovich.
Some people still say that it can be Considered as Coup.

 

[BMD]

If Russia Knew That Ukraine Is never going to be part of NATO, then why this invasion?Let Zelensky make noise.

It was never about NATO, it was always about Ukrainian EU membership. Putin could not tolerate the prospect of Ukraine undergoing a similar economic transformation to Poland right on his border and making him look like the completely incompetent twat of a leader that he is. Additionally it would also remove Ukraine from Russia's trading sphere, since they would be in the EU bloc and subject to EU trading terms with Russia. It was never about NATO proximity, there is nothing NATO could do from Ukraine that they couldn't do from the Baltics, which are already in NATO.

 

[RASALGHUL]

You see, you always deal with false equivalences. Dictatorships can never be treated the same as democracies, because the actions of democracies are moderated both by the people, representatives elected by the people and a free press. Whereas, with a dictatorship, one person decides everything, and if they are a lunatic like Putin, then lunacy is the result. The former is predictable, the latter is not. So allowing the latter to be next door is completely different to allowing the former to be next door

BUT Then Why US/UK HAD Toppled Democracies all Over the world Like IRAN, CUBA, NICARAGUA, ETC.

It was never about NATO proximity, there is nothing NATO could do from Ukraine that they couldn't do from the Baltics, which are already in NATO.

On the West of Baltics Lie ocean/sea, While ukriane will be Connected with land to whole NATO.

 

[BMD]

Come ON! Don't be disingenous. There were Riots/Violence Just outside govt building. There was a legit threat To yanukovich.
Some people still say that it can be Considered as Coup.

Yeah, the riots occurred because Yanukovych was elected to do one thing and he did the exact opposite after a meeting with Putin. That isn't democracy, in fact the opposition labelled it 'treason'. Protests resulted, and certain factions within the police decided to try end them with brute force, but instead, they were ended with brute force.

You can call it a coup, or you can call it a democratic restoration. If Russians had done the same thing back in the 2008-2012 period then they might not be having the sh*t beaten out of them by riot police and getting cattled off to their slaughter in Ukraine right now. A lesson in the dangers of apathy.

 

[RASALGHUL]

In your mind critical thinking involves twisting every negative world invent into something the West caused.

Because Since WW2, West has been found/Caught Doing regime change again & Again all over the world, Even with countries that were democratic.

The spread of democracy via the EU was a threat to Putin. NATO/US was nothing to do with it.

With the advent Of internet , People Sharing of ideas across borders, IMO democracy is Inevitable.
EVEN China, Saudi arabia , NK etc. Knows that.
Leaders OF these countries can Only delay Democracy as political system.

 

[BMD]

BUT Then Why US/UK HAD Toppled Democracies all Over the world Like IRAN, CUBA, NICARAGUA, ETC.

Because they did some bad things in the distant past to curtail Soviet influence during the Cold War, partially precipitated by the Cuban missile crisis. And these proven to be mistakes, since all the cases you have mentioned resulted in anti-western, authoritarian sh*tholes, which have endured to this day.

On the West of Baltics Lie ocean/sea, While ukriane will be Connected with land to whole NATO.

Pull out a map, the Baltics are connected by land to Poland. In fact Poland is far closer to the Russian border via the Baltics than via Ukraine. 380km vs 720km, as measured on Google Earth in fact. But this is frankly irrelevant and ridiculous, since there is absolutely no way of compelling all 32 democratic NATO governments to pass a bill to attack Russia. War could only come as a result of Russian attack.

To point out how ridiculous this talk is: If NATO wanted to attack Russia they'd be attacking them in Ukraine right now, and it would be completely inline with International Law to do so, under the grounds of protecting the territorial integrity of Ukraine. If they're not doing it now despite the circumstances, then how can any sane person believe that they would suddenly all decide to invade/attack Russia inside Russia itself in a war of aggression in breach of International Law.