Ukraine - Russia Conflict

Most Su-30SM were shot down by MANPADS. These pods can do jack against those.
Some Su-34s were shot down from high altitude.

And why were they flying at MANPADS altitude if their EW is so great?
What's that got to do with it? Being amphibious means nothing if the river is too big and fast, like it is during the rainy season on the Dnieper.

Plus the Bradley requires a lot of preparation too, which is suicide in a transparent battlefield.

Even the Russians stopped significant river crossing missions after their first major loss even over canals. And to cross the Dnieper, you effectively need a very large army for any assault mission to be effective.

The Ukrainians are only using motorboats to put scouts on the other side for now, probably preparing for an invasion over the dry riverbed. Even the riverbed downriver will dry up some day.
Crossing a 3 mile wide, open mud flat against ATGM and artillery is also suicide.
 
Almost everyone outside the West need a decisive or total Russian victory.
Only in your head. What they need is an end to the war, that won't happen with Russia in Ukraine.

Does the world really need a precedent for countries being annexed by more powerful neighbours?
 
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Crossing a 3 mile wide, open mud flat against ATGM and artillery is also suicide.

What? Lol. No, the Russians are not prepared to deal with an armoured thrust from the powerplant.

That's so obvious:
pmap5.png


They don't have a single fortification there.

In any case, if the Russians were gonna blow up the dam, they would have done it either before the invasion happened or preferably after the invasion, 'cause then all the forces would get stranded; washed away first, and then stranded. Easy victory.

But now, all the UAF has to do is walk across the river.

It's gonna dry up downriver too.
 
Only in your head. What they need is an end to the war, that won't happen with Russia in Ukraine.

Does the world really need a precedent for countries being annexed by more powerful neighbours?

You mean, the world's comfortable with NATO destroying other countries elsewhere?

Nah, matey, the entire Global South is trying to get away from the West.


Stop living under a rock, read this article in full.
Indeed, Russia’s invasion of Ukraine has made the BRICS more relevant, especially for countries in the Global South that want to resist the West’s “autocracy-vs-democracy” narrative, said Ryan Berg, director of the Americas Program at the Washington-based Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS).
 
Almost everyone outside the West need a decisive or total Russian victory.

I still think Russia will eventually win - they still have a lot more gear & men to burn through than what the other side can realistically muster, despite all the weapon transfers. But I'm now convinced that it will take years to do so - and there won't be anything decisive about it, given the shape in which Russia will emerge at the end of the war.

Russian-Ukrainian relations have dropped to the point that the Russians have no choice but to split Ukraine into multiple countries or permanently annex their territory. The Russians have chosen the latter, the greatest guarantee of assured security. If the Ukrainians are allowed to win, then we will see a repeat of the war in a few more years, and the next time it will be way worse, it could really trigger WW3.

I see that as inevitable at this point. Even if Russia signs a ceasefire right now, keeping what they have already 'annexed' (Donbas, Zaporizhia, Kherson, Crimea), it will simply be seen by the Kremlin as an opportunity to get a breather & lick their wounds...before building their war machine back up for another go at the rest of Ukraine perhaps 5 or 10 years down the line. Moscow has decided that an independent Ukraine cannot be allowed to exist as such a country poses too much of a risk for them on the plains.

Even if the Russians succeed in taking all of Ukraine now, a few years down the line they'll move into Moldova - to close the Bessarabian gap. The territory of Moldova has already been kept in limbo thanks to Transnistria so they cannot join NATO easily. There is no lasting peace to be realistically expected for Eastern Europe on the horizon.

All existing status quos will be challenged, that's inevitable - the question we should ask ourselves is, what do we stand to gain or lose from it? And act accordingly. One thing's for certain - the existing global status quo is certainly not very advantageous for us.

As of WW3, well it's gonna happen at some point. It's merely a question of both Europe & the INDOPAC having a hot war at the same time. Doesn't seem very far-fetched these days.

And if Russia loses, they will lose a lot of influence in Central Asia, which means China gains power, and the Russians will also end up contributing even more to the destabilisation of the Middle East and Africa, both bad outcomes for India. The world will also get split into 2 blocs.

Again, I see that as inevitable. Regardless of whether Russia wins or looses, it will emerge economically much weaker & isolated than it is was before the war. Russia's domestic market is too small & too poor for it to become a consumer-based economy, in fact their dependence on energy exports will increase even further. With Europe no longer a captive energy buyer (and the coming inevitable loss of Indian market due to Yuan demand which we cannot accept), there is no version of the post-war situation in which Russia can survive without China's help. Of course Beijing knows that and Russia will have to make several painful concessions in order to secure its future.

And Russia would much prefer that concession to be the Central Asian ex-Soviet republics rather than Russia's own far-east oblasts. Central Asia is a 'nice to have' for Russia, and yes strategically important, but if forced to make a choice, the well-being of the European core (West of the Urals) takes absolute priority.

Remember that Russia already went against Indian interests in Afghanistan toward the end, and chose to toe the Chinese/Pakistani line instead. They've already made up their mind as to who is more important for them in the years to come - the PRC.

If Russia wins, then they get to consolidate more power away from the US and China, and this puts the entire Global South at an advantage because then they don't need to pick sides. Right now, the world's split into 3 blocs, the West (basically the US), China and Russia/India. The Russia/India bloc is currently neutral and that helps the Global South to stay neutral, or the US and China will force them to choose sides. France and Germany also do not want such an outcome, but they have miscalculated their way out of the equation. India is still 2 decades away from holding the neutral bloc up all on its own.

Forget this whole Global South nonsense. 90% of the Global South is already onboard with the BRI in one form or the other. There cannot be any convergence of strategic interests between India & the GS because none of them share the threat perception we have of China. For them, their economic interests (deliverable through BRI, RCEP or other methods) are far more important. The GS simply has no strategic goal beyond that, and even if individual countries do, there can never be a convergence of such goals across the GS. That would be subscribing too much into the failed Nehruvian worldview.

The ONLY other power that shares that threat perception of China, and is actually willing to put strategic interests ahead of any potential economic ones toward the addressing of said threat - is the US.

A Russian loss would also help pull SEA into Chinese orbit. The current lot of sanctions is already doing a number on SEA's relations with Russia. And SEA is really important to India's future as well, we need them to tilt more towards India than China or the West. If SEA tilts more towards the US, then we are screwed. The Americans will turn SEA into another Ukraine.

India simply has no capital flows that can realistically influence SEA decision-making away from China, and won't have for the next 20 years at least. Only China & the oil-rich GCC can mobilize that level of capital surplus to throw at anything & everything.

That's why we have teamed up with the QUAD to tackle SEA & Pacific Island issues. Because even the US on it's own cannot conjure up that kind of no-questions-asked capital. That's why they're into building coalitions wherever they can.

Russia's presence helped SEA play the balancing act, but that's gone now. For example, Malaysia, Indonesia and Vietnam planned to buy Russian jets and other military gear. But now they have to balance it out with France and India. But France is under American influence and India doesn't have everything SEA needs, so SEA is rapidly tilting to the West, helped further by India staying out of RCEP.

Good for us. We're getting a nice piece of the pie as well - thanks to Russia's refusal to accept payments in currencies other than Yuan for anything, oil or weapons (not to mention their domestic industry being fully occupied in supplying their own war effort).

Not that unlikely for us to see Vietnam mothballing their Bastions & replacing with BrahMos. HAL seems set to grab the contracts for maintenance of SEA's entire Flanker inventory as well (Vietnam, Malaysia, Indonesia).

Anyway, arming either side goes against India's neutral position. Plus we don't wanna piss off the Russians, they are still our main supplier even without considering any of the above. In fact there are proponents within the govt to do the opposite.

So everyone outside NATO need a Russian victory. Hell, I'd argue France and Germany would concur.

I think the relationship has more or less run it's course. Russia's ability to supply us is now diminished to the point that we have to start looking elsewhere for critical inputs. Their problems are two-fold (supply chains cannot accommodate exports + even if they can, they want payment only in Yuan).

So yeah, Russia is our main supplier - and that supplier is already gone.

As of pissing them off, at some point we have to send Moscow the message that it also pisses us off when they keep supplying China with weapons + work against us in areas key to our interests (like Afg) and not expect a blowback.

In the past there were legitimate reasons to tolerate the Russians' grandiose view of themselves (which seems to forget that they are but a shell of their former Soviet status and are about 1/3rd the size of India's economy) and the ego that brings - such as their UNSC veto. But with it being almost certain that soon Russia is going to become the PRC's lieutenant in most global matters, I don't see the wisdom in waiting for the egg to hatch.

On the other hand, we need help in booting up our local Private sector arms industry especially with items like ammo, artillery shells, shoulder-launched munitions & small drones - a nice way to spin up these industries is to let them take contracts from the West's Ukraine fund to produce munitions for export.

Not to mention, Pakistan has already supplied munitions to Ukraine - that didn't stop the Russians from selling them oil, or stop Lavrov from declaring "Roosi-Pakistan dosti zindabad". I think we underestimate just how desperate the Russians are right now. A customer the size of India? That's a totally different ball game compared to likes of Pakistan or Turkey (both of whom supplied to Ukraine), the Russians would be fools to ignore that. But of course they will try to convince you otherwise...this is where diplomatic hard ball comes into play.

And you can bet we've already begun playing. The Modi-Zelensky bilateral, NSA Doval's talks with the Ukrainian leadership...all this started mere weeks after the Russians refused to accept Rupee payments. We are certainly attempting to send a message - remains to be seen how far we'll take it.
 
Lol! They Have Zircon, Oniks, etc. They have much better weapons than we have.
Exactly. They believe that they have better version than Brahmos. That's why I said that they need to swallow their pride. Them buying Brahmos from us, gives a subtle message to the world plus gives them means to balance their unused stock of surplus ₹. Win win situation for both India and Russia.
 
Some Su-34s were shot down from high altitude.
Yes, but not Su-30SMs. And the reply was regarding that only.

Also, some Su-34s were shot down by Russian IADS by mistake.
And why were they flying at MANPADS altitude if their EW is so great?
Because of lack of PGMs. Very simple. Now they have changed their strategy and are using PGMs. The result is very obvious.
Their Brahmos is called P-800 Oniks. Ours is a modernisation of an existing missile.
Yes. But them ordering Brahmos from us shall give a subtle message to the world regarding their seriousness in the JV. Also a perfect means to offset rupee/ruble imbalance.
 
Yes. But them ordering Brahmos from us shall give a subtle message to the world regarding their seriousness in the JV. Also a perfect means to offset rupee/ruble imbalance.
Hell No! Absolutely No.
First, Russia is in Wrong.
Second, It will jeopardize our dealings with western nations Which is very important for us...
 
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What? Lol. No, the Russians are not prepared to deal with an armoured thrust from the powerplant.

That's so obvious:
pmap5.png


They don't have a single fortification there.

In any case, if the Russians were gonna blow up the dam, they would have done it either before the invasion happened or preferably after the invasion, 'cause then all the forces would get stranded; washed away first, and then stranded. Easy victory.
By the time the river bed dries, which will likely be months, they could quite easily build fortifications there.

They didn't know how long they'd control the dam for.
But now, all the UAF has to do is walk across the river.

It's gonna dry up downriver too.
...under concentrated enemy fire with no cover.
 
You mean, the world's comfortable with NATO destroying other countries elsewhere?
Destroying how? It was other actors who caused the actual chaos in Iraq, and Iraq was not annexed and the people now vote on the government, instead of having Saddam Hussein killing and torturing millions. The Syria civil war had already began. NATO wanted democracy to prevail, Russia wanted authoritarianism to prevail.
Nah, matey, the entire Global South is trying to get away from the West.
Stop living under a rock, read this article in full.
Indeed, Russia’s invasion of Ukraine has made the BRICS more relevant, especially for countries in the Global South that want to resist the West’s “autocracy-vs-democracy” narrative, said Ryan Berg, director of the Americas Program at the Washington-based Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS).
Dictatorships and friends mostly. Hedging their bets for when they finally screw up. BRICS is basically a case of, we'll let you get away with absolutely anything, as long as you don't mess with China's strategic interests. Barely anyone will sign up exclusively to that unless they're mentally disabled.

Let's face it, if most were forced to either choose BRICS or stick with the current exclusively, which would they pick? BRICS sounds great until it gets large enough to cause an even bigger problem for people. Some of it's simply stupid as well, like that African dollar alternative - now they pay some other outfit for every transaction and have a currency exchange every time - that will cost more not less in the long run.
 
Yes, but not Su-30SMs. And the reply was regarding that only.
What difference does it make?
Also, some Su-34s were shot down by Russian IADS by mistake.
EW - Russia at war with electronics.
Because of lack of PGMs. Very simple. Now they have changed their strategy and are using PGMs. The result is very obvious.
They are using long-range glide bombs, which are more expensive than regular PGMs, because they can't get close enough.
Yes. But them ordering Brahmos from us shall give a subtle message to the world regarding their seriousness in the JV. Also a perfect means to offset rupee/ruble imbalance.
Yes, buying a few missiles will solve the rupee, ruble imbalance. :ROFLMAO:
 
This is all NATO's fault.
Yes, yes, everything is always NATO's fault. Al Quaeda blows up people in Iraq, it's NATO's fault, Russia blows up stuff in Ukraine, it's NATO's fault, your wife leaves you because you have a small penis, it's NATO's fault.
 
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