United State's NGAD & F/A-XX Fighter Programs : Updates and Discussions

It's becoming difficult not to entertain the idea that NGAD might be hypersonic as well VLO given the planform and unusual intake system.
 
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It's becoming difficult not to entertain the idea that NGAD might be hypersonic as well VLO given the planform and unusual intake system.

I had pointed this out quite a while ago, that's it's gonna have very high speed.

PAK DP is expected to be mach 4, near-space capable and very stealthy. So yeah, NGAD could also be mach 4 capable at the very minimum. Hypersonic requires scramjet, and a lot of fuel, I'm not sure if anybody's there yet for fighter-sized aircraft.
 
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I had pointed this out quite a while ago, that's it's gonna have very high speed.

PAK DP is expected to be mach 4, near-space capable and very stealthy. So yeah, NGAD could also be mach 4 capable at the very minimum. Hypersonic requires scramjet, and a lot of fuel, I'm not sure if anybody's there yet for fighter-sized aircraft.
My theory was that it's a turbo-ramjet given the dual under-over intakes. A ramjet can achieve Mach 5 at altitude. It'll be funny if it's called the F/A-37 Talon.
 
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Or just a turbofan with a speed of mach 3. This is what I'm leaning towards.
The planform is too slender for that.

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;)

 
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Can't be VLO in IR if it is hypersonic !
No aircraft are really VLO in IR, some are just better than others, but IR is useless for BVR targeting. The extra altitude gives a more advantageous radar angle on adversaries that they likely have a higher RCS from, and provides a kinematic advantage to A2A and A2G missiles/munitions, not to mention making a SAM engagement envelopes ridiculously small, even if their radar could see it, which it can't. It will likely also interface with drones flying at a similar altitude to enemy targets.
 
Can't be VLO in IR if it is hypersonic !
Apparently, they are testing chrome like paint on F-22 for NGAD program to reduce its IR signature.

Advance QWIP and then QDIP IRST sensors are going to be the biggest VLO busters of future. IRST 21 already detects subsonic F-22 from over 100miles. More advance IRST sensors of future will do even better.
 
Apparently, they are testing chrome like paint on F-22 for NGAD program to reduce its IR signature.

Advance QWIP and then QDIP IRST sensors are going to be the biggest VLO busters of future. IRST 21 already detects subsonic F-22 from over 100miles. More advance IRST sensors of future will do even better.
Only 100km in rear aspect.


But you won't have direct rear aspect on a fighter at 40km altitude, and IRST provides poor range information and even worse velocity information for targeting. Meanwhile the NGAD will be looking down onto canopies from above and firing AIM-260s.
 
Only 100km in rear aspect.


But you won't have direct rear aspect on a fighter at 40km altitude, and IRST provides poor range information and even worse velocity information for targeting. Meanwhile the NGAD will be looking down onto canopies from above and firing AIM-260s.
He is just speculating. The target is to detect VLO fighters above 100kms in the frontal aspect even when they are subsonic. Even current MKI's obsolete OLS-30 has around 35-40kms for frontal subsonic fighter detection and around 90kms in rear aspect.

Our new gen QWIP IRST will have twice or thrice the range of current MKI's IRST. It's a given. It'll also have in-built TV channel just like Rafale. 50kms+ would be its ID range. In dual-band mode using both LWIR and MWIR it'll detect fighters much longer.

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He is just speculating. The target is to detect VLO fighters above 100kms in the frontal aspect even when they are subsonic. Even current MKI's obsolete OLS-30 has around 35-40kms for frontal subsonic fighter detection and around 90kms in rear aspect.

Our new gen QWIP IRST will have twice or thrice the range of current MKI's IRST. It's a given. It'll also have in-built TV channel just like Rafale. 50kms+ would be its ID range. In dual-band mode using both LWIR and MWIR it'll detect fighters much longer.

View attachment 28878
Unproven assertions based on unknown heat signatures. Whatever IRST systems India or Russia has, rest assured NATO will have better. And like I said, detection is not targeting. As for ranging with a typical targeting laser, by the time that is in range you will be long dead.
 
Unproven assertions based on unknown heat signatures.
Connect the dots and you shall know...
Whatever IRST systems India or Russia has, rest assured NATO will have better.

DRDO is extremely impressed with EF's PIRATE. Our QWIP IRST would work on the same principles along with integrated TV channel and LRF. Typhoon's PIRATE lacks the latter two(it does have IR TV though). DRDO IRST would be as good as it gets.
And like I said, detection is not targeting. As for ranging with a typical targeting laser, by the time that is in range you will be long dead.
PIRATE doesn't have LRF, yet it can detect/track/target multiple boogies well over 50kms. Some estimates claim around 90kms frontal detection/tracking/targeting.

Our IRST would work on AI algorithms, sensor fused with Digital RWR/ESM and AI based AESA radar. All these sensors would work together and cue each other towards VLO targets either actively or passively.

IRST alone is no panacea against VLO. But sensor fusion is.
 
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Connect the dots and you shall know...
Meaningless answer.
DRDO is extremely impressed with EF's PIRATE. Our QWIP IRST would work on the same principles along with integrated TV channel and LRF. Typhoon's PIRATE lacks the latter two(it does have IR TV though). DRDO IRST would be as good as it gets.
EF's PIRATE hasn't been updated since the '90s.
PIRATE doesn't have LRF, yet it can detect/track/target multiple boogies well over 50kms. Some estimates claim around 90kms frontal detection/tracking/targeting.

Our IRST would work on AI algorithms, sensor fused with Digital RWR/ESM and AI based AESA radar. All these sensors would work together and cue each other towards VLO targets either actively or passively.

IRST alone is no panacea against VLO. But sensor fusion is.
And how far ahead is the US on sensor fusion relative to Russia? A decade? Half a century maybe?
 
Meaningless answer.
:rolleyes:
EF's PIRATE hasn't been updated since the '90s.
During MMRCA our scientists got full access to PIRATE's performance. Our Rafale has got latest OSF-NG. Obviously our scientists have full access to its performance. That's why our IRST is going to be awesome, when it comes online.
And how far ahead is the US on sensor fusion relative to Russia? A decade? Half a century maybe?
MKI's BARS talks with OLS and both can cue each other. So, it's not that Russia doesn't know sensor fusion. However, my post wasn't about Russia vs USA. But about IRST vs VLO.
 
QDIP IRST is what the world wants but IIT-MUmbai is ithe only institution which has been able to create a stable QDIP material for it and it still needs some more research before it can be used for IRST functions. However IIT- Mumbai is being funded by DRDO to create one. If it happens, we will be the first in the world to defeat VLO including active cancellation.
 
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:rolleyes:
No literally, you're guessing.

During MMRCA our scientists got full access to PIRATE's performance. Our Rafale has got latest OSF-NG. Obviously our scientists have full access to its performance. That's why our IRST is going to be awesome, when it comes online.
Full access to the performance or the technology? It's 30 years old now anyway.
MKI's BARS talks with OLS and both can cue each other. So, it's not that Russia doesn't know sensor fusion. However, my post wasn't about Russia vs USA. But about IRST vs VLO.
That's not actually sensor fusion. And it won't help, because when cued it will still see nothing.

There's something you need to understand about how IRST works, it's basically an optical telescope, scanning very small windows at range. It's slow and it can be out-manoeuvred by a stealth fighter that already knows where you are. But if NGAD is capable of Mach 4-5 at over 30km altitude with distributed radar, AIM-260 will wipe out any Su-30 or Su-57 out from >200km away.